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  1. #21
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    Default Re: 1.3.9a Double Orders

    DrB, we both know you're going to be waiting in perpetuity for the "impossible" list. Because you also know that just about no one uses a mod-free, uncustomized (and ugly LOL!) version of Zen cart. There's no way I'm stripping my store for this. Not when you could easily see it in action for yourself with minimal effort. Moreover, not when it's a completely unrealistic environment.

    I was amused by, "I'd help if I could." I found threads dating back to 2007 regarding the same problems I've had with both IPN and Express. If you haven't fixed it by now, it's highly unlikely you ever will. "You" meaning collectively. My problems are with Zen, not with you personally, and I don't mean to make it sound that way.

    I appreciate your reply, but, as far as I'm concerned, the Zen masters' philosophy on this seems pretty clear. Please rest assured I won't be wasting any more of your time (or mine) on the subject. I'll just remain hopeful somehow it will be magically fixed (for real) by the time 2.0 comes out. Maybe 2.0 will be so amazing we won't need any mods. ;)

  2. #22
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    Default Re: 1.3.9a Double Orders

    Quote Originally Posted by ToniScraparoni View Post
    DrB, we both know you're going to be waiting in perpetuity for the "impossible" list. Because you also know that just about no one uses a mod-free, uncustomized (and ugly LOL!) version of Zen cart. There's no way I'm stripping my store for this.
    I'm not asking you to strip your store.
    I'm asking you to help me build up a repli ca of your store so that I can use it for testing without breaking anything on your live site. (Or to build such a repli ca yourself, and tell me all the steps you take to get there) ... all up to the point where suddenly your payment problems start occurring.

    Starting from a clean slate is the correct way to diagnose problems. If the problem can't be replicated by rebuilding the site starting with admin config settings, then the problem will be in the PHP files.
    Then, the comparison of all the addons/customizations will be useful to diagnose the exact cause.

    I, for one, would like to quash this issue permanently. I'm tired of hearing it come up and not finding anyone willing to provide the details I need to fix it.
    .

    Zen Cart - putting the dream of business ownership within reach of anyone!
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    Remember: Any code suggestions you see here are merely suggestions. You assume full responsibility for your use of any such suggestions, including any impact ANY alterations you make to your site may have on your PCI compliance.
    Furthermore, any advice you see here about PCI matters is merely an opinion, and should not be relied upon as "official". Official PCI information should be obtained from the PCI Security Council directly or from one of their authorized Assessors.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: 1.3.9a Double Orders

    Okay, I swore to myself I wasn't going to post again about this. LOL!

    Mightn't you be a little unreasonable in that request? At least as opposed to coming over to look for yourself? There is no way I can possibly remember every tweak I've ever made during the last year. They're innumerable.

    Innumerable meets immovable, apparently. So I'm more than willing to give you a .zip of my current Zen files along with zillions of screen shots of my admin menus and a list of all the mods I have installed. A PITA to compile rather than simply letting you see for yourself, but if you insist it be this way, you've got it. I'm always on board for the greater good. I'll even give you my debug log with the lone error I've found, another mod vs. Zen problem that's never been resolved. Maybe I'll even get a two-fer. ;)

    Just tell me where to deliver it and I'll get busy!

  4. #24
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    Default Re: 1.3.9a Double Orders

    Quote Originally Posted by ToniScraparoni View Post
    Okay, I swore to myself I wasn't going to post again about this. LOL!
    And I swore I wouldn't get involved. I guess we just can't help ourselves eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by ToniScraparoni View Post
    Mightn't you be a little unreasonable in that request? At least as opposed to coming over to look for yourself? There is no way I can possibly remember every tweak I've ever made during the last year. They're innumerable.
    On the same token, don't you think that you are being unreasonable in your request to have someone perform a full audit on your site with no apparent offer of compensation for the time and effort involved?

    Quote Originally Posted by ToniScraparoni View Post
    So I'm more than willing to give you a .zip of my current Zen files along with zillions of screen shots of my admin menus and a list of all the mods I have installed. A PITA to compile rather than simply letting you see for yourself, but if you insist it be this way, you've got it.
    I think even this is an unreasonable request - It could still take considerable time just to check and compare files, not to mention the fact that the problem may still never be duplicated.

    It really isn't, as you imply that no one wants to help you, or that anyone is denying the existence of the problem, but as Dr.Byte has pointed out, until/unless the problem can be reliably (or even semi-reliably) replicated there isn't a whole lot that anyone can do about it.

    What needs to be kept in mind that there are 1000's of zencart users that have never experienced the problem, and only a small handful that have.

    Someone, somewhere needs to find a common link between those with the problem and those without.

    It is clear that Dr.Byte is as frustrated with the problem as those that are actually experiencing it - Quite probably moreso, as he says:
    "I, for one, would like to quash this issue permanently. I'm tired of hearing it come up and not finding anyone willing to provide the details I need to fix it".

    I really do sympathise with this sentiment.

    Furthermore, this problem is being put forth as a zencart bug - With no further information or clues, it could theoretically be a bug with the PayPal systems, or possibly even a network 'glitch' causing a retransmission of data packets, or silly users wondering what would happen if they order the same item twice (not that any would admit that).

    The bottom line though is the lack of any information required to replicate the problem leaves so many variables open that a person wouldn't even know where to start looking.

    This is where those that are experiencing the problem need to do THEIR bit, and this involves helping to find a way to replicate the problem, looking for any 'patterns' to the problem (are the customers all in the same country? Are they buying the same product(s) - ANY clue is better than no clue at all.

    Also if YOU can't replicate the problem in your own store, how could you expect someone else to be able to replicate it using a different store?

    Computer/Program bugs are never "random events" - Assuming it IS a bug, then there must be a way to replicate it. A "random event" may cause generally stable code to behave in unexpected ways (some of which can be mitigated) but generally speaking, like Microsoft's "Blue Screen of Death" such events can't be predicted, fix or cured.

    So, now ask yourself - Is this a random event, or is it a reproducible bug. If it is reproducible then those that are in a position to reproduce it are the ONLY ones that can provide the information required to solve it.

    It really is that simple.

    The insinuation that the developers don't really care or are unwilling to help is grossly unfounded.

    So, as Dr.Byte says - "I'd help if I could. But, I must wait on you" (or others in a similar position).

    G'night <back to lurk mode>

    Rod

  5. #25
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    Default Re: 1.3.9a Double Orders

    Quote Originally Posted by RodG View Post
    And I swore I wouldn't get involved. I guess we just can't help ourselves eh?
    Hi, Rod! Indeed. ;)


    On the same token, don't you think that you are being unreasonable in your request to have someone perform a full audit on your site with no apparent offer of compensation for the time and effort involved?
    Not in the least. I'm not asking a) for something that hasn't been asked before that b) isn't for my personal whim and fancy. This isn't a "custom commission." Apparently TPTB don't think it's unreasonable either, since arrangements have been made off-forum to get this in motion. And I am duly appreciative, regardless of what the undertaking may be characterized as. :)

    It really isn't, as you imply that no one wants to help you, or that anyone is denying the existence of the problem, but as Dr.Byte has pointed out, until/unless the problem can be reliably (or even semi-reliably) replicated there isn't a whole lot that anyone can do about it.

    What needs to be kept in mind that there are 1000's of zencart users that have never experienced the problem, and only a small handful that have.
    While I would agree it's a fair assumption that less users of Zen have this problem than more, I don't think it's as minimal as you might suggest. It's possible people search, find there is no answer to find, and leave it at that. I, on the other hand, have never been shy. ;)

    Furthermore, this problem is being put forth as a zencart bug - With no further information or clues, it could theoretically be a bug with the PayPal systems, or possibly even a network 'glitch' causing a retransmission of data packets, or silly users wondering what would happen if they order the same item twice (not that any would admit that).
    If you had read the complete thread, you would have noticed that, in my second post, I apologized for posting this in the incorrect place. I had been in this thread reading the last of the previous bug I did find and thought I'd switched forums before posting. I had assumed the mods would move the thread back to the upgrade forum.

    Also if YOU can't replicate the problem in your own store, how could you expect someone else to be able to replicate it using a different store?
    I completely agree analyzing patterns of customer/product/etc. when it occurs is of course helpful. Easy enough. But, unfortunately, I don't have enough knowledge in this programming area to "force" it to happen. When it happens five times in two days, it seems to "replicate" just fine on its own. ;)

    Computer/Program bugs are never "random events" - Assuming it IS a bug, then there must be a way to replicate it. A "random event" may cause generally stable code to behave in unexpected ways (some of which can be mitigated) but generally speaking, like Microsoft's "Blue Screen of Death" such events can't be predicted, fix or cured.

    So, now ask yourself - Is this a random event, or is it a reproducible bug. If it is reproducible then those that are in a position to reproduce it are the ONLY ones that can provide the information required to solve it. It really is that simple.
    Again, I'm not sure I'm qualified to make this distinction, but I'm taking door #2, reproducable. I think it happens too often to be considered random or akin to the "Blue Screen of Death." Which either stops happening after a reboot, or the computer goes into the shop. ;)

    The insinuation that the developers don't really care or are unwilling to help is grossly unfounded. So, as Dr.Byte says - "I'd help if I could. But, I must wait on you" (or others in a similar position).
    I have never meant to make any of this about personal feelings. Again, said as much above. I meant caring in the sense of the project as a whole, that it isn't a priority for the developers if it's still a problem after three years. A problem that, until now, wasn't really even acknowledged as a problem on the forum, yet was included n the list of fixes in the upgrade. A fix which clearly didn't fix it - at least for everyone. As I said above, I think I'm taking one for a larger team than we might realize. ;)

    As for being willing to provide the information, asked and answered. And being done. I'm hopeful a resolution will be found, but I will be grateful for the effort no matter what. Just being acknowledged is enough sometimes. Well, at least until the next batch of double orders comes through! LOL!

    Thanks for your post, Rod. I respect your point of view and appreciate your contribution.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: 1.3.9a Double Orders

    Dr Byte,
    I have been having the same issue with my site. Zen Cart and the Zen Cart team have enabled me to begin a new career in updating shopping carts. I can't thank everyone involved enough. Therefore, I would be more than happy to spend as much effort and time neccesary to help resolve this issue. If you would like me to recreate my site let me know.
    Jon

  7. #27
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    Default Re: 1.3.9a Double Orders

    Toni,
    What version of PHP and MySQL are you running?
    .

    Zen Cart - putting the dream of business ownership within reach of anyone!
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  8. #28
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    Default Re: 1.3.9a Double Orders

    I am new to Zen Cart, but my company just took on a client with a high volume ZC site and one of their issues is this duplicate order problem.

    FWIW I'm just posting to say a) there are others out here with the problem b) I'll be watching this thread and taking any clues others have found and c) I'll share anything we find in the process...

    Tony
    Veteran Programmer / Zen Novice

  9. #29
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    Default Re: 1.3.9a Double Orders

    tonyniemann,
    Perhaps you can add important information like the answers to the questions asked in the "Posting Tips" section when you click the "Reply" button below.
    .

    Zen Cart - putting the dream of business ownership within reach of anyone!
    Donate to: DrByte directly or to the Zen Cart team as a whole

    Remember: Any code suggestions you see here are merely suggestions. You assume full responsibility for your use of any such suggestions, including any impact ANY alterations you make to your site may have on your PCI compliance.
    Furthermore, any advice you see here about PCI matters is merely an opinion, and should not be relied upon as "official". Official PCI information should be obtained from the PCI Security Council directly or from one of their authorized Assessors.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: 1.3.9a Double Orders

    Hi, DrB!

    PHP = 5.2.4

    MySQL = 5.1.30

    Thank you and bless you! LOL! Your efforts are greatly appreciated. :)


    It was nice of Joe to offer, as well. Thanks again, guys!

 

 
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