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  1. #31
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    Default Re: Using Old Templates On New Versions

    Quote Originally Posted by SPH View Post
    But I don't think that even TM has the best templates.

    Here is a Chinese competitor who I was told on the Pub is a zencart:

    http://www.ulovebridal.com/

    I really like the over-all layout. I never had a side-flyout looking that good.

    But the product pages is where I think it stands out, and stands out from TM templates. Even without all of the gadgets and widgets, looks really professional, to me anyway.

    I want that template! LOL
    And like Picaflor this is another contributor of some of the better looking free templates available in the free downloads: http://www.12leaves.com. They certainly offer some clearner looking BASIC templates that would as Glenn pointed offer a clean starting point for a shop owner starting out.. Like Picaflor it looks like they also offer premium options. While I've only spent a little time with one of the free templates they created, they appear to be properly built (like Picaflor's templates)..
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  2. #32
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    Default Re: Using Old Templates On New Versions

    Yes, 12 leaves has some nice templates. Here's another one (although sometimes I think they are the same people):

    http://www.pixemus.com/free-templates-ecommerce.html

    Here's their free Abagon Red template I've been messing with the colors on a third level (ie, go no where) site:

    http://www.promdressesforless.us/

    I like their footer area and mainly their product layout page looks somehow more modern to me, approaching that Chinese site.

    I actually had this template on my main site www.prommart.com for a day or so, until my wife and sister in law voted it down as to manly looking. But I still like it and it just looks...substantial, to me.

    The quirk with abagon red: all of the horizontal banners are set for homepage only. But I did manage to "fix" that, getting them to operate standard zencart way.

    I'm collecting templates as I have a dream of maybe putting up zencarts for others. Yes, virtually all of Picaflor's will work!

    sph
    www.prommart.com
    Last edited by SPH; 25 Apr 2012 at 08:38 PM.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Using Old Templates On New Versions

    Quote Originally Posted by DivaVocals View Post

    I see you've missed my point here.. So let me say this again.. If a shop owner's Template Monstrosity template removes code that Zen Cart or an add-on needs which later causes OTHER issues.. well that's a problem is it not??..
    You're missing the point. None of the admin layout settings make any difference to the customer or create more conversions.

    Design, professionalism, image...DO.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Using Old Templates On New Versions

    Quote Originally Posted by dgent View Post
    You're missing the point. None of the admin layout settings make any difference to the customer or create more conversions.

    Design, professionalism, image...DO.
    Ummmmm well okay.. but if the site is BROKEN because of an issue caused by the TEMPLATE, then yeah it would make a HUGE difference to a customer.. but I guess as long as the site is pretty it won't matter right?? oh well..

    Not missing any point at all.. there are PLENTY of other options for "out the box pretty/professional" available which do not slash and remove Zen Cart's code unnecessarily (nor do they employe an endless stream of nested divs)..
    Last edited by DivaVocals; 26 Apr 2012 at 01:48 PM.
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  5. #35
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    Default Re: Using Old Templates On New Versions

    Quote Originally Posted by DivaVocals View Post
    Ummmmm well okay.. but if the site is BROKEN because of an issue caused by the TEMPLATE, then yeah it would make a HUGE difference to a customer.. but I guess as long as the site is pretty it won't matter right?? oh well..
    No TM templates are 'broken'. You make it sound like you install a TM template and a customer can't get on your site and make a sale. Which simply isnt true.

    If you're talking about admin back end functions, then yes they could be broken (broken as in some switches make no difference - not broken as in you can't work your admin), but it doesnt affect the front end operation (to the customer) of the store, and back end functions make no difference to the customer.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Using Old Templates On New Versions

    Quote Originally Posted by dgent View Post
    No TM templates are 'broken'. You make it sound like you install a TM template and a customer can't get on your site and make a sale. Which simply isnt true.

    If you're talking about admin back end functions, then yes they could be broken (broken as in some switches make no difference - not broken as in you can't work your admin), but it doesnt affect the front end operation (to the customer) of the store, and back end functions make no difference to the customer.
    Ummm okay... Not what I said at all.. But okay..

    There are PLENTY of other options for "out the box pretty/professional" templates available which do not slash and remove Zen Cart's code unnecessarily -- which will cause other issues later on down the road (nor do they employee an endless stream of nested divs).. So if "pretty/professional, install and go" templates are the BIG reasons to use Template Monstrosities offerings, then it's certainly no longer the only game in town.. Better constructed options are available..
    Last edited by DivaVocals; 26 Apr 2012 at 04:12 PM.
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  7. #37
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    Default Re: Using Old Templates On New Versions

    You did say 'if the site is BROKEN because of an issue caused by the TEMPLATE, then yeah it would make a HUGE difference to a customer'

    How does something broken in the admin make a huge difference to the customer....?

    So backpeddling aside, yes there are other template options out there which are ok, not as slick as the TM offerings, but do work (all functions in admin) but then on the flipside some of the TM templates have features hard coded into them that Zencart admin doesnt do as standard. So swings and roundabouts.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Using Old Templates On New Versions

    Quote Originally Posted by dgent View Post
    You did say 'if the site is BROKEN because of an issue caused by the TEMPLATE, then yeah it would make a HUGE difference to a customer'

    How does something broken in the admin make a huge difference to the customer....?
    So because the customer doesn't see it, then broken admin functions should be ignored?? Okay then.. It probably doesn't matter to the customer, unless of course the broken admin function stops an order from going through correctly..

    However, I am not not just talking about broken admin functions with regards to Template Monstrosities template offerings..

    Broken on the FRONT END as in (and this is just a small sampling of issues):
    ~ Modifying the sideboxes so that ONLY the sideboxes which are active in the demo are the ONLY ones which work. Instead of modifying the stylesheet so that ALL sideboxes use the same layout look/feel, you must now locate the 20 nested divs which make up the sideboxes look and feel and apply it to to every additional sidebox you wish to activate.
    ~ DEFAULT sideboxes which don't work at all because they've modified other aspects of the sideboxes to force their look.
    ~ Modifying the main page and the banner code in particular so that banners with images no longer work correctly particularly when viewing the site via SSL.

    Good luck getting Template Monstrosity to fix these things too.. They are LOATHE to make fixes to their templates. In fact they want to blame your Zen Cart install, other mods, etc for code THEY removed which is the cause of the issue.. They practically refuse to fix broken code unless you let them FTP into your site versus simply FIXING the issue and sending you replacement files..

    Schoolboy aptly summed up the issue with Template Monstrosity templates:
    They are heavily customised to FORCE a FIXED LOOK, and they achieve this by modifying code and REMOVING core functions.
    In a discussion years ago on this forum with the good folks at Template Monstrosity, they all but admitted that this is what they do to their templates. In this discussion they were promising to change the way they constructed templates, but instead ran away from the discussion.. and today they continue to churn out these templates which continue to employ poor coding techniques and stripping out core code simply to make their designs work..

    Quote Originally Posted by dgent View Post
    So backpeddling aside, yes there are other template options out there which are ok, not as slick as the TM offerings, but do work (all functions in admin) but then on the flipside some of the TM templates have features hard coded into them that Zencart admin doesnt do as standard. So swings and roundabouts.
    no backpedaling on my part here.. You started this and other discussion on this topic by stating that shopowners don't want to spend months learning CSS, that they want pretty/professional looking sites, that they should be able to install a template and start selling..

    Quote Originally Posted by dgent View Post
    use a ready to go template, or use another cart, otherwise you're going to go no-where.
    Quote Originally Posted by dgent View Post
    Ok find me a site with over 100 templates available with a really professional look in every genre available for Zencart, other than TM.

    Every one is saying 'don't use TM' but no one offers anything as an alternative.

    Remeber most people that start out with Zencart have zero experience with css etc so saying 'templates that can be easily' modified is not an option. Alot of people just want an out of the box online store they can put their products on and make money from.
    Going back to what YOU have repeatedly stated as the reason shopowners should use a ready to go template: getting a professional looking site up and out there ASAP so they can start selling.. To serve that end, there ARE other options which offer good looking, professional templates that DO NOT force the look by modifying code and removing core functions as the Template Monstrosity templates do -- Picaflor-Azul and 12 Leaves are two such options. They offer both free and premium template options.

    Your opinion that the template offerings from these two sites are "not as slick" as Template Monstrosity is YOUR opinion.. Some small shopowner might think the Picaflor-Azul and 12 Leaves templates are JUST as slick.. (and to quote you "who are YOU to tell them they are wrong??") Picaflor-Azul and 12 Leaves templates certainly have the added attraction for small shopowners of having FREE offerings.. If your argument is that pretty/professional/quick is what shopowners with ZERO experience should be going with, then these template offerings certainly do that.. PLUS these template DO NOT break front-end or back-end functionality to "make" their designs work. I am all for DIY shopowners doing what's fast and easy so long as it is using GOOD code, and certainly that cannot be said fully of Template Monstrosities templates..
    Last edited by DivaVocals; 26 Apr 2012 at 05:27 PM.
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  9. #39
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    Default Re: Using Old Templates On New Versions

    Templates. My area of expertise, as I've tried many of the free downloads.

    Some of the free offerings are "broken":

    1. Apple Zen, Cherry Zen, Estorenow: one does not simply go in to the admin and turn on or off a column. Have to dig in to the css or code for that.

    2. Black Pure & Lite Red (12 Leaves), Bask Black, my old stand-by icAtheme: missing header 2 banners and/or tag line. The free Abagon Red, all horizontal banners on homepage...what's with that? (I've learned to "fix" some of those.)

    3. Cherry Zen which I'm now using, like the old Rubik Modern Zen, the top search icon isn't clickable, one has to hit "enter" on keyborard.

    When it comes to functionality and mods, I'm thinking that if it is not in zencart core then one probably does not really need it. I think the only critical mods are: Image Handler, Easy Populate, Column Layout Grid and for me since I use PayPal, Ask a Question (Check Availability). Other than those, the mods might look fancy but are not critical for success (unless I've missed something).

    Oh, and the new Dynamic Filter (layered navigation) which I recently discovered: may turn out to be the single MOST important customer-side mod. (Dr. Byte, hope it's okay to mention again. ;) )

    The two TM templates I'm familiar with: all of "my" mods work...except I don't yet know about the new Dynamic Filter.

    We..the store owners...will always be the weak point with any template. Like my sister's TM one, once we start adding our own graphics things can go down hill from the demo. Same with template layout customizations. Just as with too many with free templates, everyone seems to want to roll up their sleeves and begin changing things: redesigning the template as if they know better (they probably don't.)

    One should choose a template that is basically what they want to use, out of the box. Especially so with a commercial template. You like it, you bought it, it looks good - now don't mess it up.

    I think that Dgent and I are on the same page on one thing: that from the customer's viewpoint, looks are almost everything. Whether consciously or subconsciously.

    SPH
    www.prommart.com
    Last edited by SPH; 26 Apr 2012 at 06:26 PM.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Using Old Templates On New Versions

    Also, many highly recommended templates can become "broken" if one uses IE and is in compatability view (or not in compatability view.) IE is the most popular browser, but one can never know what "view" the customer will be in.

    sph
    www.prommart.com

 

 
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