Please DO NOT tell me to upgrade, I cannot, (please read for more ;-)

[voluntaryist.only]

OK,
I have read EXTENSIVELY on the whole upgrade, new install, migrate databases, export tables yadda, yadda, yadda...

the bottom line is this: some modules on the "old site" (1.39H) no longer work, as they were done "privately" by a freelancer, who no longer exists. these modifications are site wide, embedded & difficult to track down & remove. So I do not / cannot "Just Up-Grade"

I am fairly competent. I have installed 1.51, and a template (a fairly complex on at that) so far so good. I had thought that using easy populate (on 1.39h) & installing easy populate on the 1.51 site, I should be able to export product lists & later customer lists as well. I do not have a huge number of products but they are interlinked, (some of them at least) so I thought I would go slowly, export / import categories, then sub categories, then products, then Model/Price/Qty, Model/Category, Model/Attributes, etc. I then would go into the old (1.39h) site & delete all customer orders outstanding (as a matter of routine security, we only keep the last 30 days of customer order anyway) & just export the customer data, addresses, contact details etc.

so, here is my question, will this work? if not why not, what do i have to do to make this method work? any bright ideas? any thoughts, BTW, please excuse the caps in certain locations, kind of fed-up I have been at this for what seems like aeons. Over to you zencart community, what say you?

[dbltoe]

Your questions indicate that you have not looked at http://www.zen-cart.com/entry.php?3-...d-of-upgrading. Take the time to read this while keeping in mind that most "old" mods are probably no longer needed or (in the case of some of yours) may have been created/updated for the newer version.

IMHO, there is NO excuse for not upgrading with the info at http://www.zen-cart.com/entry.php?3-...d-of-upgrading. You may need to find a way to add some feature that is unique to your situation, but consider if it's delay will REALLY stop sales.

[voluntaryist.only]

Hi,
with the greatest of respect, i did read that, but it really still does not address my situation, wow, everyone is close minded about this, "resistance is futile, you will be upgraded" arrghh! (runs screaming to the hills!)

look all joking aside, i want to start out fresh again, too many mods, too many changes, i just cannot find the time to wade through the whole file changes thing, i just want products imported & my customer base, is that really asking so much? I have seen many very similar questions from lots or "poster's" Is it really beyond possibility? how about i install oscommerce & import to that & then import from oscommerce to new ZC 1.51? (instead of oscommerce, insert any other open source type of cart. c'mon folks there's got to be a way, pleeeaseeee!

[DrByte]

With respect to your wishes, please understand that this post is not intended to agitate you nor put you on the defensive. My aim in this post is to help you see the subject from another angle, and also show you how to accomplish the same goal as you started out with ...

You say "resistance is futile". It goes both ways.


Your store HAS already a complete database. Why are you wanting to trash that?

Why are you equating "upgrade" with "i gotta throw it all away"?

There are two parts to your site: the database, which contains all your data and your configuration settings, and your sales rules and shipping strategies and payment methods; and then there's the PHP files which contain the core software logic and your customized template and language text.

The database-upgrade part is the simplest. It takes between 30 and 150 seconds. So stop trying to throw away your database after wasting hours with trying to figure out how to export/import customer and then products and then orders and then whatever the heck else you think you need to export over to some other place.

The PHP files are separate. And if you've changed a lot of things in them and you want to throw all THAT away, feel free. Of course, that means you're starting all over without any frame of reference on what things you need to "redo" in the new version (based on your strategy of starting over from scratch without even looking at your old site files).

Simplify your fear-of-the-unknown:
- compare all your customized language files against the originals (ya, just like the upgrade docs say to do). THIS WILL GIVE YOU ALL THE TEXT CHANGES YOU NEED TO DO IN YOUR NEW SITE. And, if you use WinMerge, you can literally copy individual customized lines over from old-to-new if you want to actually save yourself hours of time and guesswork. Or ... don't. Just figure out all the language-file changes from scratch by hand all over again. I choose the easier way of comparing, since WinMerge does it in about ... lemme count ... 1 2 3 4 seconds. Done. That was faster than finding the text in the Developers Toolkit, which only takes 5-6 seconds including typing.

Seriously, that's the majority of the work, because you already said you're throwing away your old template, and thus don't need to compare those files.

So, then your new template takes care of the templating part.

And bam, you're basically done.

Why do all those hours of picking out customers and products to export, and fiddling with guessing which files to change "hello" to "hi" in, and so on?


The upgrade instructions may look dauntingly complicated, but that's just because they're written from the perspective of saving you from yourself.

Break it down into the smaller parts and it's really not a big deal.

The "big deal" comes where you've changed the core code business logic with custom features and want to "keep" those custom features. But your post reads as though you don't care about those custom features anymore (you said you're throwing away the old and starting with a brand new one, which implies ignoring the custom code you say you believe is impossible to upgrade), so ... why is this so complicated again?

So ... I don't "get" what you mean by "I cannot upgrade".

[voluntaryist.only]

OK, (deep breath) here goes, i have tried to use file merge, got one set of files in one window & the other set of files in another window, no idea what to do next, saying things like "just copy of the changed bit & you're good to go" is no good, i have no idea what is ok to move over & what is not ok to move over, what conflict each will cause, what will not cause conflict, READ MY FIRST POST! I have too many file changes, too many redundant modules, most of which will have to be upgraded / removed & re-installed from scratch.

I realise that this is your baby, that this is how you've worked how to upgrade it, but, c'mon! could you make it anymore difficult for us "standard-zenner's" as opposed to "uber-zenners"? what can we not just eport curent database & then re-upload that to the new cart? surely, that would be so much more user friendly, would it not? easier for any level of "zenner"

while I'm at it, the whole "lock out for login's" every 15mins is sooo beyond a joke it hurts, the changing of the passwords is also a pain, did eventually find a way round it,(just ask if anyone wants to know how) yeah i know pci-dss, big whoop. if you have to worry about making sure you login every 15mins or someone will hack your site you got bigger problems (I have a test install, installed, just for checking it out etc.) (just ask if anyone wants to know how)

So, back on topic, why does the new address book not have password fields? like the old one, why can I NOT, import mysql database details from the old to the new? why when i do finally manage to actually insert address details, product details, categories, etc, why will the cart not even recognise that they are in the database? some sort of "lock-out" / "disallowed-action" going on? so I have to do it "your way"? this is all so much of a pain, I am on the verge of not bothering & walking away from zencart, so, so hard.

I have been round & round this, I even installed easy populate into the new cart to see if this would work, (only partially btw) See this opens up more worries for me, what if have to re-install the database in the future? will I have all these problems then? if so, i would be screwed wouldn't I? so much for usability.

over to you zencart community......

[gjh42]

Did you not try simply installing v1.5.1 from scratch, then importing your old database and selecting "upgrade" in the install program? That would get all of your customers, products, etc. ready to go. Then the necessary language file merges/copies and the image folder copy will get your store saying and showing everything. After that, it gets to the perhaps painful process of transferring old mods, or the probably less painful installing of new mods that do things you need. I am sure you are making it more difficult than it needs to be, to just get your store up & running on v1.5.1.

And yes, the 15 minute timeout is annoying though it can be worked around, and having to change passwords regularly can cause confusion if you don't use your password every day.

[dbltoe]

With respect to your wishes, please understand that this post is not intended to agitate you nor put you on the defensive. My aim in this post is to help you see the subject from another angle, and also show you how to accomplish the same goal as you started out with ...

Same here.
You keep saying that you have read extensively but your questions are ones that are answered at the link I gave or in the docs folder of the Zen Cart version package.
Hopefully, you are not trying to use an automated installer. That can create problems in itself and does not leave the zc_install directory after the install.
In your case (as in the docs/2.readme_how_to_upgrade.html) you have a backup of your old database.

You have created your new site with its new database. Remove the existing database and replace it with the old database. Run zc_install and use the database upgrade option.

You will also need to copy the image files from your previous /images folder to have images for the products in the now updated database.

One not of caution is to make sure you look in the images folder before blindly copying everything. You should transfer ONLY image files. Some sites have non-image files (other than .htaccess and index.html) which have resulted from a hack. Your install should have created a current version of the .htaccess and index.html files.

There's also more on the subject in the implementation guide (a pdf file in the /docs directory of a standard install).

Once you have the old data back (updated) and a template installed, it's time to bring in payment and shipping modules. Adding IH4 will help with the images. At that point, you can open for business. You may find that many of the old mods are not really needed. The 1.5.X series handles SEO, PCI and many other things far better than the 1.3.x series.

Leave the test copy in a subdirectory to check each additional mod you think you need to add. If they work out, you can just transfer them to the actual site.

[DivaVocals]

OK, (deep breath) here goes, i have tried to use file merge, got one set of files in one window & the other set of files in another window, no idea what to do next, saying things like "just copy of the changed bit & you're good to go" is no good, i have no idea what is ok to move over & what is not ok to move over, what conflict each will cause, what will not cause conflict, READ MY FIRST POST! I have too many file changes, too many redundant modules, most of which will have to be upgraded / removed & re-installed from scratch.

I realise that this is your baby, that this is how you've worked how to upgrade it, but, c'mon! could you make it anymore difficult for us "standard-zenner's" as opposed to "uber-zenners"? what can we not just eport curent database & then re-upload that to the new cart? surely, that would be so much more user friendly, would it not? easier for any level of "zenner"

while I'm at it, the whole "lock out for login's" every 15mins is sooo beyond a joke it hurts, the changing of the passwords is also a pain, did eventually find a way round it,(just ask if anyone wants to know how) yeah i know pci-dss, big whoop. if you have to worry about making sure you login every 15mins or someone will hack your site you got bigger problems (I have a test install, installed, just for checking it out etc.) (just ask if anyone wants to know how)

So, back on topic, why does the new address book not have password fields? like the old one, why can I NOT, import mysql database details from the old to the new? why when i do finally manage to actually insert address details, product details, categories, etc, why will the cart not even recognise that they are in the database? some sort of "lock-out" / "disallowed-action" going on? so I have to do it "your way"? this is all so much of a pain, I am on the verge of not bothering & walking away from zencart, so, so hard.

I have been round & round this, I even installed easy populate into the new cart to see if this would work, (only partially btw) See this opens up more worries for me, what if have to re-install the database in the future? will I have all these problems then? if so, i would be screwed wouldn't I? so much for usability.

over to you zencart community......

Let me try adding another perspective.. It's not about being difficult or not even about letting you "have it your way" the fact is that you need to UPGRADE versus trying to carve out pieces database and restore them as you are insisting upon doing if you want to preserve/convert your data.. There are many database changes, and the upgrade process makes sure those changes are made properly while preserving your data..

Doing the upgrade IS the way of making it easier for "standard-zenner's". To successfully attempt to do what you are trying to do is really for the "uber-zenners".. or more to the point trying to carve out pieces database and restore them is a job for those who have HIGH database skills in order to execute this correctly.. and TRUST me those with that skillset are NOT trying to carve out pieces database and restore them. They are doing the upgrade because the work of converting the database to the new version and preserving the data is already done for them..

You CAN export the old database and import it to the new store, but for it to WORK you need to run the UPGRADE process.. You are trying to avoid this because you've decided it's too difficult, but what you are doing is MORE difficult and is taking far longer than it would have to simply upload a vanilla version of Zen Cart, upload your current configure.php files, import you old database, and then run the upgrade.. DONE.. Your database will be converted, and then you can re-install your modules on top of the fresh vanilla files..

Now if you don't want to do this, and you decide to go with another shopping cart, that's your choice.. However, remember you will have to rebuild EVERYTHING from scratch and then recreate you categories, and products. You will lose your customer data and order history as well.. Honestly that seems like MORE work than it will take to simply follow the advice EVERYONE has given you to simply upgrade your site..

[voluntaryist.only]

Did you not try simply installing v1.5.1 from scratch, then importing your old database and selecting "upgrade" in the install program? That would get all of your customers, products, etc. ready to go. Then the necessary language file merges/copies and the image folder copy will get your store saying and showing everything. After that, it gets to the perhaps painful process of transferring old mods, or the probably less painful installing of new mods that do things you need. I am sure you are making it more difficult than it needs to be, to just get your store up & running on v1.5.1.

And yes, the 15 minute timeout is annoying though it can be worked around, and having to change passwords regularly can cause confusion if you don't use your password every day.

Hi I did a version of that with a version of drbyte's one below your post, mostly worked, got the following errors:
I can go to the "new" cart site (ie the one the general public will see) & it is there, but it is "down for maintenance" when I try to login to the admin side, all I get is a page stating the following:
Not Found

The requested URL /admin/alert_page.php was not found on this server.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.


I know I had to manually configure the configure files, which I did do, & I have double checked them as well, they both seem ok. Is there another file that I need to fix?

thanks in advance...

[picandnix]

Hi I did a version of that with a version of drbyte's one below your post, mostly worked, got the following errors:
I can go to the "new" cart site (ie the one the general public will see) & it is there, but it is "down for maintenance" when I try to login to the admin side, all I get is a page stating the following:
Not Found

The requested URL /admin/alert_page.php was not found on this server.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.


I know I had to manually configure the configure files, which I did do, & I have double checked them as well, they both seem ok. Is there another file that I need to fix?

thanks in advance...

that's most likely because you have renamed your admin directory.
try yourstore.com/yournewadminname