Not VAT registered, no tax added...(outside UK as well?)

[dwmir]

Question, I am not VAT registered, does it mean I do not need to add taxes for my products, even for United States, Europe customers etc?

I live in UK.

[dwmir]

Anyone?

[balihr]

This is a VERY bad place to seek such advice. This is a forum where Zen Cart related problems are solved. You should NEVER seek legal advice on ANY forum - there are professionals who should tell you what to do. You can even get their opinion on paper and hold THEM liable if it turns out they gave you incorrect advice.

Once you get official legal advice and you know what you need to do, come back here and we can help you and guide you how to set it all up in Zen Cart.

[RodG]

Question, I am not VAT registered, does it mean I do not need to add taxes for my products, even for United States, Europe customers etc?

I live in UK.

Correct. You can only charge/collect taxes in your own country, and then only if registered to do so.

Cheers
RodG

[RodG]

Anyone?

Apologies. I actually replied to this last night / yesterday, but something froze when I submitted it.

Cheers
RodG

[RodG]

This is a VERY bad place to seek such advice. This is a forum where Zen Cart related problems are solved. You should NEVER seek legal advice on ANY forum

Perfectly good advice. It is exactly the same thing that any good lawyer would advise.

- there are professionals who should tell you what to do.

At a cost that is usually magnitudes higher than could be justified.

You can even get their opinion on paper

Lawyers never give opinions. At best they will tell you what the law books state.

and hold THEM liable if it turns out they gave you incorrect advice.

And if/when they give bad/wrong advice trying to hold them liable or accountable is a near impossible task. It involves finding another lawyer willing to work for you in what amounts to tarnishing the entire profession. Good luck with that!

Once you get official legal advice and you know what you need to do

A person doesn't need to be a lawyer to know and understand certain aspects of the law, especially in regards to taxation laws. It is better to seek the advice of a registered/certified accountant for this, or better still, contact the tax office in the country that you reside.

Cheers
RodG

[balihr]

When did I ever mention lawyers?! Yuck, I hate those bloodsuckers...

I was thinking of an accountant, just forgot to write that. Such matters are not to be taken easily - one fine can shut you down for life...

I was in the exact same situation last year when Croatia joined EU and I went straight to my tax office to get some advice from their consultants. My accountant did give me some advice, but the consultant gave me some different information and I was a bit confused. I left, came back the next day with a printed list of things she had said a day earlier, asked her to check if that's all correct and if she can confirm I need to work exactly like that. Once she confirmed, I asked her to sign that paper and put her stamp on it - that way I have proof I'm doing exactly as I was instructed by the tax office in charge. Of course, she didn't want to sign it so I said I'll go see her supervisor and ask if it's OK for her to give advice but not take responsibility for it, she took the paper again, read it once more very carefully and then signed it. I keep that paper in my vault... :)
Needless to say, I changed my accountant...

My point is - you don't want to get ANY LEGAL advice on any forums from a person who's only information you know is his nickname... RodG really IS a respected member of the community, but what happens if he accidentally gives you wrong info or if he doesn't know some catches in the EU laws (being an Aussie, that's quite possible).

@dwmir: consult an accountant or your tax office and get the EXACT information you need. If you're not VAT registered, things can be a bit more complex than usual. For example, I am VAT registered, but am not in the VAT system. I don't charge any VAT for domestic orders, I don't charge any VAT for international orders (unless I provide hosting services, then I MUST pay VAT). But, only for my EU clients, it's a different story - if my client is an EU registered company, there's a reverse charge and the client must pay VAT in his country. If it's not a company, no VAT is applied. But, each case has some clauses that MUST be printed on the invoice and mention which article of the VAT law applies... As you can see, it's nowhere near simple - it's not just black and white... Get some expert advice for your specific case(s) - that's the only way to be safe...

[RodG]

When did I ever mention lawyers?! .

Bad wording on your part.. "You should NEVER seek legal advice on...."

I was under the impression that only Lawyers can give legal advice (regardless of whether they Barristers or Solicitors).

Yuck, I hate those bloodsuckers...

I bet I hate them more than you. Bad advice cost me over $160,000 (I should have it paid off when I turn 80).

I was thinking of an accountant, just forgot to write that. Such matters are not to be taken easily - one fine can shut you down for life...

Now that's a different matter. I have no problems with accountants. :)

My point is - you don't want to get ANY LEGAL advice on any forums
from a person who's only information you know is his nickname... RodG really IS a respected member of the community,

This is highly debatable. I'm opinionated and outspoken. Not quite the same thing ;-)

but what happens if he accidentally gives you wrong info or if he doesn't know some catches in the EU laws (being an Aussie, that's quite possible).

I can't argue with that. However, I'm also a very logical thinker, and if the OP isn't registered for VAT then he/she almost certainly going to be registered or obliged to collect/charge tax on overseas transactions.

@dwmir: consult an accountant or your tax office and get the EXACT information you need. If you're not VAT registered, things can be a bit more complex than usual.

I find this highly debatable and very difficult to believe.

For example, I am VAT registered, but am not in the VAT system. I don't charge any VAT for domestic orders, I don't charge any VAT for international orders (unless I provide hosting services, then I MUST pay VAT). But, only for my EU clients, it's a different story - if my client is an EU registered company, there's a reverse charge and the client must pay VAT in his country. If it's not a company, no VAT is applied. But, each case has some clauses that MUST be printed on the invoice and mention which article of the VAT law applies... As you can see, it's nowhere near simple - it's not just black and white... Get some expert advice for your specific case(s) - that's the only way to be safe...

I have been registered for GST (The Aust equivalent to VAT), and can attest that things aren't really different over here, with invoices containing specific content, the withholding of tax for some transactions, and so forth, and what is clear is that although charging tax for overseas transactions is certainly *possible* it is never *required*, and any amounts charged go straight back to the tax office. I would suspect that a person/company/business that isn't registered for VAT/GST would be breaking the law by charging for it in the 1st place because there is no way for the amounts charged to be accounted for.

As you say, I *could* be wrong, but if I am, the VAT is one really fscked up system that is open to abuse.

Cheers
RodG

[balihr]

There IS this one thing to differentiate - as I had said earlier, I am VAT registered, but not in the VAT system. Maybe I'm using some bad terminology here... VAT registered only means that I went to the tax office and said I'll be doing international work and will have clients from all over the world so they assigned me a unique VAT ID and registered my business in their database. However, I'm not in the VAT system so I don't collect VAT and am not obligated to pay it to the government. I was not allowed to do business with EU clients before getting VAT registered - all transactions within the EU go through a system called VIES and all numbers must match (based on the VAT ID).

So, OP MIGHT need to go to the tax office and get a VAT number (it's something like GB123456789) before he can have international customers. Again, it MIGHT be required, but I can't say for sure. That's why I said EXPERT ADVICE is required, not just something from the forums... In my case, if I were to work without that VAT ID, I risk a fine of approx $19.000. Worst part - it took me 5 minutes and $1.80 to get that VAT ID... Not submitting monthly reports to VIES - upto $45k. And this little thing is something my first accountant didn't know about. :)

And, I absolutely agree on the "VAT is one really fscked up system", but not with the rest of your statement - it's actually quite good and all this makes it LESS open to abuse because it's harder to not declare tax...

[RodG]

There IS this one thing to differentiate - as I had said earlier, I am VAT registered, but not in the VAT system. .

Again, it is similar here (but different terminology) I'm a registered business (have an ABN - Australian Business Number) which enables me to do business with other businesses (without having tax withheld), but I'm not registered for GST (any longer), which means I can't collect tax.

I stand by my original claims though, if the OP isn't obligated to collect tax in his/her own country then they certainly shouldn't be collecting a tax from overseas customers.

Cheers
RodG