Things every New Zenner needs to know

[Ajeh]

I know it ... no clue how many times I started to write one of these and then got side tracked and then took the code to far on the update/upgrade to even make it worth trying to finish let alone fix ...

One of these days we will have one written ...

Until then all you get are the /docs ... the FAQs ... the WIKI ... the 1000s of questions and answers here on the forum ... the wonderful bunch of folks that take the time to answer all of these questions that are but a search away ...

Many shy away from the search ... or give up on the first half dozen to a dozen posts they look through ...

I kinda of have to laugh ... what's the worse that happens in searching and finding something unrealated? You might learn something that will help you an hour later?

Besides ... when is the last time an index in a manual actually took you to the right page the first time? And didn't you learn "something" neat for having at least read the first paragraph or two of the page unrealated to what you are looking for?

Nothing like a good search in the forum for 15 to 30 minutes to learn all kinds of neat things you never knew existed in Zen Cart ... and often times ... you will find the answer to your question at the same time ...

[Sermonzone]

Woody,

They aleady have. The questions are posted in the forums ;-)

and I spent several hours counting the questions that appeared most often.

Many of the draft questions you PM'd me are quite broad. Books have been written on some the topic ;-) I recommend narrowing the scope.

Other than CSS, what seems broad to you? Regarding CSS, I am nearly at a loss for how to help some new users. CSS is much more complex than manyh new users realize.

And why not post the list of questions to this thread than PM?

Willing to do that. You should know by now that some users don't know how to ask the right questions and they don't know the right answer when they see it. I thought it would be better to discuss the list with other users that are helping answer questions. Will post the questions I shared via PM below. Not trying to hide anything.

Recommend searching the forums on Ajeh, Kim, DrByte, and Wilt (Zen Cart Devs who regularly post to the forums) and other community folks who have been around for awhile (Merlin, etc). You will find clear answers to many questions (or subset of your questions).

These are folks I respect tremendously for their work on Zen Cart. I gathered a series of topics and FAQ's and posted it to give guidance to new users. I refer somone to that post nearly every day. I also hear new users saying they don't understand the FAQ and/or posts. IMO, this happens because

1. Zen Cart, CSS, php , e-commerce, etc. is more difficult than most new users reaslize
2. Too many new post questions before they have not even tried looking for an answer
3. The combination of a new release and the forum reboot after the sql attack and
4. New users have less and less prior knowledge of basic programming skills and don't understand the FAQ's as written.

Then if answers need fleshed out and/or questions remain then do ask around ;-)

Thought that is what I was doing.

Certainly open to guidance from the Devs and other forum leaders on this. If it a waste of anyone's time, detracts from the community, goes in the wrong direction or has a better way to be done, please let me know.

[Sermonzone]

Here is the list questions I have considered so far. It is first draft list and will likely change substantially before it is published.

Feel free to comment.

1. Glossary of common Zen Cart and programming terms.
2. List of useful tools and software.
3. What is the Override template system?

What if we started with a clean install of the cart and then just did a step-by-step look at the edits a new zenner would typically make in setting up their cart? The following questions might all be answered in that approach.

4. How to remove the "sales message goes here" text.
5. How to change or turn off "Welcome Guest" message.
6. How to add and position a new logo
7. How to find and edit php files in the template. Layout, sideboxes, etc.
8. What directories all the images are in. IE: buttons, icons, images etc.

Also -

9. CSS - With the advent of 1.3 there are many CSS questions.
10. How to set up Paypal.
11. Misc topics reviewing security, backup, etc. This may be "Things new users didn't know to ask."
12. List of other quality tutorials on a variety of topics.

[butterflyo]

Hi Bruce

This would be great if it was all located in a wiki...

Well... for me, my top five would be...

1. How to make your Admin secure via SSL would be handy.
For example, I've only got it so the little golden locket is only on when I log in, but when I'm viewing orders its off. How to fix?

2. How to work out the sideboxes.
Ie: replacing a banner from within one to the one I wanted. How to put a picture inside a sidebox, text in a sidebox, etc.

3. More detailed comments in css would be handy as I don't know whats the name of the *bit of code* that I want to change the colour or even how to space out the products.
(and yes, I found my answer in the forum but it was hard going as I had no idea it was "called - spacer/padding")

4. How to add a new link to the top of the page (header.php) and a hyperlink to an external site (ie: your main home page)

5. The final pre-flight checklist BEFORE you go live.
What one needs to triple check before going live to the world.

[Woodymon]

If it a waste of anyone's time, detracts from the community, goes in the wrong direction or has a better way to be done, please let me know.

Certainly not! You are doing a great service and are to be commended!

A document which makes it "easier" for newbies to reference info that they will most cetainly need is very good thing. That kind of document would have been very handy when I first started with Zen Cart and probably would still be helpful to me now. that is why I am contributing ideas.

When I first started here I already had a backgorund in PHP, MYSQL CSS2, PHP, Apache, FTP, SSL, etc. But I still had to read, re-read and re-read the Zen Cart FAQ and the various readme docs to absorb many of the new ideas (e.g. overrides). I do feel for others without the prior experience I had.

And even now, when I think I have an improved grasp, a new issue pops up and knocks me on my ########. (I now consider myself as an 'Intermediate' not 'Advanced' Zen Cart user). Often enough I find that a solution I applied to one problem does not readily apply to another very similar problem. So reading and more reading to find a workaround is often the only solution. But this describes life in all aspects, not just Zen Cart customization work.

It comes down to this... if newbie store-owners are unwilling to invest in the "required" reading (e.g. on XHTML and CSS) before jumping into customizing Zen Cart, then they should hand over the "customization" project to someone else who has.

Help bait the first hook, and do the first cast if needed, but the reeling in part... well sometimes it is desirable to show folks how to reel it in too. Hopefully then they will be able to return the favor and teach others to do the same. This is the spirit in which I post here ;-)

With that said...

Regarding CSS, ALL newbies should be directed to the W3C CSS site for an overview of the CSS2.1 model. Even if CSS2.1 is still considered a "working draft", it is fairly well considered the standard - http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/

Required reading, no getting around it.

CSS v.3 is coming. But right now only basic CSS 2.1 proficiency is required for those who want to customize current version of Zen Cart. However be aware that new features exist in CSS3 which could also prove helpful to many Zen Cart customizers.

Important CSS 2.1 Categories -
relevant to Zen cart customization:

- Syntax, Selectors, Property Values, Cascading, Inheritance
- Box model, Visual formatting model, (Line box), Positioning
- Color, Backgrounds (& Borders)
- Tables, (Columns, Lists)
- Text (Layout, Text Effects)
- (Style)

(parentheses indicates new CSS3 categories which may also be helpful in customizing Zen Cart).

Another area to consider is browser CSS (and XHTML) support differences.

Direction to a quality website exist illustrating/comparing browser CSS support differences would be useful. . I thought I had a bookmark to a quality site describing how well IE7, IE6, Firefox 1.5, and latest Opera and Safari browsers, support CSS 2.1 and XHTML 1.0. But cannot locate right now.

I am repeating myself... Firefox Web Developer Extension is the easiest tool to use to display how CSS is applied to a Zen Cart site, and easiest tool for customizing the CSS.

CSS and XHTML work together. You want to know both!
http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/

Thus Zen Cart customizers need a basic background in "XHTML 1.0 Transitional". http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/

Validating your CSS and XHTML is highly recommended.
The sites above have links to W3C CSS and XHTML validators.

(and you might want to learn about the differences between "Transitional" and "Strict" XHTML revisions. And if interested in managing your mark-up for Mobile phones and other small devices you may want to check out the newer "Basic" XHTML revision http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-xhtml-basic-20060607/ ).

Also a discussion focusing on standard CSS and XHTML Accessibility features which apply (or do not apply) to Zen Cart and/or different browsers might be warranted.

Woody

[individual-beauty]

The Things I Struggle(d) With, Or, What I Did on My Spring Break:

1) TAXES! Being Canadian, we have more levels of tax than Cher has silicone scars. I know that there is a good tutorial on it - I believe it's by Dr. Byte??? But in your newbie guide, put a link directly to it, including the few comments that followed his post on clarifying zones.

2) GLOSSARY. Oh I am SO in agreement with this. Everyone here has been really helpful to me, but each and everytime I have had to ask for clarification. Because you guys live and breath this stuff so often, you have your own terminology and it seems self-evident to you. But think of it as its own separate language. Think of the high school French you took and then plunk yourself down in Paris. You'll understand things if, and only if, they speak slow enough. And even then there'll be words you need clarification on.

3) Inserting your own logo. There are about 32 1/2 different versions of the php file where you can change your logo. To someone like me, they look almost identical. Be specific as to why you change THAT particular file and not the others. I've been given the instructions and have followed to the letter (at least I thought I did) and I still can't get it right. Explain where you locate the file that you are linking to. Be specific. What files cannot be used and what size is a no-no.

4) REPRECUSSIONS. I don't know about you, but I learn the hard way: by screwing things up then I know oh, so THAT's why you don't do that. If you explain how the walls come tumbling down if you do THIS, it'll help some people retain things.

5) The difference between changing text files in Admin and changing them in FTP. I don't even know if there is a practical difference.

6) HTML - maybe find a good site that has a basic HTML tutorial and link to it. That'll help the colour changes and some other basic formatting questions. It'll also help a little on understanding why changing some things in the CSS file is or is not a good thing.

7) IMAGES. Oh man, if it wasn't for all my blonde hair, you'd see all the grey this has given me. I only found AFTER I had asked the question and someone linked to it a place that explains the MED and LRG image procedure and even then, because I had no idea of the thumbnail size vs. full file size memory issue, that was only so much help. In this area I was a complete and total blank slate and had to get a program to make the appropriate thumbnails (which were given their own thumbnail prefix by that program) and then MED and LRG file sizes from it. Then I had to figure out on my own that the MED and LRG files also need the thumbnail prefix to work. It took me about 4 days to figure that one and it was very frustrating.

This is a great idea and I wish you luck.

[kuroi]

Woody

You make a lot of good points in your post above. Just two things that I would disagree with. Firstly I wouldn't get people too whipped up aboyt the possibilities inherent in CSS3. CSS2 has been around since 1998 and still isn't fully supported by the main browsers. So ######## though some of the CSS3 features will be, it will most likely be some time before all the main the browsers support them (correctly), let alone reaching a position where Zen Cart users' site visitors have all upgraded to as yet non-existant upgraded browsers.

Also, I have tended to find that initially CSS is best taken on board by way of seeing it in practice in meaningful examples. The benefits of studying the theoretical underpinnings tend be come later once some intuitive understanding has already been established.

As to your lost site, There are a number of that offer tables showing which browsers support which CSS functions. This is a good example.

[Woodymon]

Just two things that I would disagree with.

Firstly I wouldn't get people too whipped up aboyt the possibilities inherent in CSS3.

Let's see... I stated...

CSS v.3 is coming. But right now only basic CSS 2.1 proficiency is required for those who want to customize current version of Zen Cart. However be aware that new features exist in CSS3 which could also prove helpful to many Zen Cart customizers.

I don't see any "whipping up" of CSS3 by me (Note the word "could"). I think we are mostly in agreement ;-) But there are components of CSS3 which are relevant now, and some will become quite relevant sooner, and some later. Folks should at least be aware of CSS3. Especially when they ask why cannot CSS2.1 do this, or do that? (some ideas were removed from CSS2 during the transtion to CSS2.1. But are doable with CSS3). Anyway just because a browser is not fully complaint with CSS3 does not mean it does not support of some useful CSS3 features. But I defer to you as you are a CSS pro and I am not ;-)

It all comes down to the question: "which browsers do you want to support?" BEFORE injecting ANY code into the Zen Cart core, or for that matter, BEFORE making any customizations to Zen cart layout, you must ask this question.

Also, I have tended to find that initially CSS is best taken on board by way of seeing it in practice in meaningful examples. The benefits of studying the theoretical underpinnings tend be come later once some intuitive understanding has already been established.

Not sure if we are in disagreement here but different strokes for different folks. When i first began with CSS I was completely overwhelmed. To get a special effect to my layouts veryone would tell me to insert this or that code into my HTML and into stylesheet. But I would never understand the what and why. So after brief struggles I found what put me ahead was a quick study of base CSS terminology (at W3C). Then I was able to combine practice with theory (as they reinforce/complement each other....kind of like taking chemistry or physics class, you have lab time along with general theory lecture). I feel the W3C site does a good job of illustrating effect of stylesheet changes and has been very helpful; to me. And other previous posters haver posted links to quality CSS sites. And your Future Zen template is also very helpful in this regard, which I posted previously in this thread.

As to your lost site, There are a number of that offer tables showing which browsers support which CSS functions. This is a good example.

Thanks much for the link. Very helpful! We need a site that combines XHMTL 1.0/CSS2.1 browser support comparisons.

Woody

[ladysaat]

When I first started here I already had a backgorund in PHP, MYSQL CSS2, PHP, Apache, FTP, SSL, etc. But I still had to read, re-read and re-read the Zen Cart FAQ and the various readme docs to absorb many of the new ideas (e.g. overrides). I do feel for others without the prior experience I had.

Yeah. See... if it was a challenge for you with all that background, now I don't feel bad for feeling like a non-IQ-having-individual.

I have gone through the w3C CSS tutorial and the HTML one (heh they're bookmarked). To be honest with you: NOTHING in their tutorial looks like the things in my stylesheets I really am getting the feeling that I'm muddying up my soup a bit much. Or perhaps my head.... who knows. Not much is getting clearer.

I am going to download my stylesheets and try to make my own blank template kinda thing to look at. I won't know what goes where, but maybe I'll post it and then one of the zen gods can fill in the blanks for me.

[Woodymon]

I am going to download my stylesheets and try to make my own blank template kinda thing to look at. I won't know what goes where, but maybe I'll post it and then one of the zen gods can fill in the blanks for me.

Get Kuroi's "Future Zen" template (From Downloads - Templates area) and download/install Web Developer Extension for Firefox.

Woody