Newbie needs help simplifying ZenCart - TMI!

[Kim]

You can't use plain ol' HTML pages because Zen Cart is dynamic. That means it counts the stock and adjusts it on the fly after things have been added to the cart, it means it knows if you need to add an attribute before you can add to the cart, it means a dozen other little things that make the code SMART. Much of that information exchange is accomplished with the sessions and plain ol'HTML doesn't do sessions. No sessions, no true interaction.

If you just weant add to cart buttons to take an order, there are other programs.

[brain21]

You can't use plain ol' HTML pages because Zen Cart is dynamic. That means it counts the stock and adjusts it on the fly after things have been added to the cart, it means it knows if you need to add an attribute before you can add to the cart,.

But if I want to use ZenCart (it is, after all, zen CART) for the shopping cart, I already get that. I mean, if I use it for a shopping cart, it still keeps track of the stock. It knows about attributes before I add to the cart not because IT is smart, but because I tell it to. ZenCart doesn't know that a shirt comes in blue or red, until I tell it so. I already stated that I would add the items to the DB vie the zenCart admin interface. That takes care of the attributes. Now all I want to do is submit to the cart itself the item attributes.

It should not be that difficult to pass a simple vlue to the cart via HTML forms, at least in theory. Though ZenCart seems to convolute everything, so who knows.

Maybe there are other programs, but at least for now I am stuck using this.

Here is a simple example of what is frustrating me...

I want to load up a simple index file. Nothing fancy. Lets say something that says

"Welcome to the site, click here to enter"

Now this entails editing in some form (either directly or through the overrides system) index.php

So what do I edit? Well to really understand it, I have to understand how the index.php file works. So what does it do?

index.php LOADS application_top.php, which in turn LOADS configure.core.php, which in turn LOADS class.base.php, and about ***THREE DOZEN*** other .php files.

index.php also loads application_top.php in order to load configure.php just to define directories and locations, which seems a bit silly. You have to define to location of the directories, and then to refer to an image or whatever in there later, you have to call the variable set, so what's the point? I can call WS_INCLUDES_IMAGES or I can call /images/

index.php also LOADS application_top.php which in turn LOADS a counter.

Index.php also LOADS header_php.php

And this goes on and on.


All for one page.

Basically its loading up EVERYTHING just in case... and to pass it on to other pages (which are perfectly capable of calling the information as they need it).

This is roughly akin to going out on an August day to the park, and since you didn't check the weather before you left, you brought shorts, tshirt, sandals, socks, sneaker, long sleeve shirt, long pants, a wind breaker, a warmer jacket, a goose down winter jacket, a rain coat, dress shoes, snow boots, rubber galoshes, sunglasses, SPF lotion, an umbrella, a scarf and ear muffs, a baseball hat, a wool cap, gloves, etc.

Or, going to the deli and buying 1 of every meat in order to make a ham sandwich, you know, just in case :-)

Anyway, it's very frustrating and I wish that they would make it easier to use only certain portions of the product overall. It is FAR easier to maintain *1* file per page than SEVERAL per single web page, each page calling yet another.

Brain21

[misty]

http://www.zen-cart.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42105
Thread above discusses easy templates for zencart, may help

[barco57]

huh, I don't recall having to mess with multiple core code files to change one page....

I have lots of experience with webdesign both professional and personal.

Whats missing is experience with how dynamic / modular web apps are put together. Any of the shopping carts out there that do what you want are going to be put together in pretty much the same way as zen cart. Take a look at any php apps and you will find the same, file after file, calling each other. It look convoluted but it is the way programming modular apps goes. Its easier on the programmers to work on modules that perform certain functions and plug them in. As I was alluding to in my earlier post with the poor analogy, if you want the function of a porsche you need to learn how to drive one. I looked at the page your working on and its nice, nested tables and all, but like the old buick your used to it and it feels comfortable. Time to let go and stop trying to bend the cart to your will. It will be alot less stress to learn how to skin the cart so that it looks the way you want. This forum is full of people who are willing to answer those questions til the cows come home. The route you want to go is most likely to break so much stuff in the cart nobody here will have the time to figure it out for you. ok i've rambled on too much.....

[barco57]

If you want to persist and trudge through this link might give you some help: http://www.htmlgoodies.com/beyond/ja...le.php/3471331
It is a html cart that uses cookies and javascript to manage product info being passed from page to page. You might be able to pull code out of it to insert into your pages and then the only thing to figure out is how to hand off the info to zen cart when the customer is ready to check out. That would get around the sessions problem as you would only create the session at checkout.....unless the customer decided to go back......and shop some more.....damn customers never follow procedures......I don't know just a thought.

[brain21]

You're right, I've never used a cart before. This much is new to me. I have done CGI, mostly in perl, done php, css is nothing new either. But the cart is (new to me). I certainly understand the concept of modularity, but there is a margin of diminishing returns here as well. Like in programming, pointers to pointers are fine, but when you then have so many pointers to pointers that you start following through a maze to fix 1 piece of code, It is no longer efficient.

Maybe it's just my frustration, but when you create a varibale that points to something, and that variable is less efficient than just directly pointing to something, then what's the point? If it is equally useable as compared to whatever it is pointing to, then you have wasted time coding a useless translation (like defining a variable "CDrive" and assigning it a value of "C:" - why referr to CDRive all the time when you can just as easily referr to it as C:?) It's different if the variable is constantly changing, but not always. Soon enough you have pointers pointing everywhere, even if that allows greater functionality in the long run, things get convoluted.

What the software makes creating a simple page an undertaking, it has some problems. After all, a Porsche would be significatly more dificult to drive if the stick shift were in the trunk.

Brain21

[brain21]

http://www.zen-cart.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42105
Thread above discusses easy templates for zencart, may help

I'll lok at this tomorrow, as it is way too late now, but this does look like it could be just what I need (after skimming over it).

Thanks,

Brain21

[kobra]

Another "poor analogy": You are making way too much of this...

Say your html site consists of 100 products, each html file needs to have the header, the left, center, right content described and so forth: 100 times.
Ok a shopper buys product "A", you need a page that indicates this is in his cart, a page that allows checkout with product "A" information so the shopper can see that they are buying the correct item, a page that processes payment, and a sucess page. Now you need these times 100.
OPPS!! the shopper wants item "A" and item "B", now you need these pages created for this combination...and it only gets more complicated from there.

Server side scripting to the rescue:
All this is, under the hood, is an html page that is cut into pieces; header, left, right & center and depending on the specific page, the pieces that are required to display the page with the correct information. All this is dynamically assembled, based upon the combinations the shopper creates.

If you are gonna say that you will use the cart for these pages and you want them to resemble your look & feel, then you have to create the template anyway. So if this is done why attempt to use a static html page as a portal? Just use the cart as it is designed to be used.

As far as linking to Zencart from the html page, you do not need to edit or touch the index.php file. For the main cart page insert something like this into your html page:

<p>Go to <a href="http://www.your_url.com/shop/">My Store</a></p>

and for accessing a product specific page:

<p>See this <a href="http://www.your_url.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=33&products_id=47">Products Details</a></p>

Where the above url info is what ZenCart will display as the focus in the browser address bar when loaded

But as you seem to think that html would be simpler, by all means forge ahead and do as you will. Not many here will understand much of anything that you are attempting as it will be your design and outside of the normal functions of the cart. And we haven't even touched secure DB access, validation, SSL and many other required things for your shoppers

[barco57]

I made another analogy.... I need to stop doing that....I don't get them right anyway.

[TShooters]

Ahhh, me....reminds me of the time my son (the math wiz) was tutoring
his twin sister (the artsy/musical one) in geometry. She had to know the why of
all those formulas. After much frustration on his part in trying to answer her "Why?" questions, he finally told her to "Just do it!" She doesn't realize it, but she's using
math everyday when she teaches music.

Was that another analogy?