AustPost - improved issues.

I'll try to help Rod out here.

Somewhere in the documentation accompanying the AustPost module, it explains that is uses a 'stack' method for multiple items because the coding was a challenge that Rod wasn't willing to take on. So, regardless of an item's area, the module will always stack one item on top of the other to determine the overall height of the parcel.

Note that I was discussing this issue earlier in this thread, as I have several products that can be stuffed into a 'large letter' size envelope, and mentioned a method/workaround for this situation. I have now implemented it and after some testing I am confident that it is working well.

Regarding the specification of product dimensions. Product dimensions (Length, Width & Height) are an additional to the Zen Cart database that are installed by the AustPost module. After a 'successful' and 'complete' install of AustPost, you should see these fields towards the bottom of the edit product page from Admin|Products... These are specified individually for each product. Where a product's dimensions are not specified, AustPost will use the 'Default Parcel Dimensions' for that product. If you have small products, you'll find that the default sizes will be far larger and will determine a 'parcel' every time.

Again, refer back to my posts early in this thread (and onwards) for further details of my 'suggested' workaround.

Specifying the dimensions for each product, if you have many, is very time consuming. For this reason, amongst others, I find Easy Populate an invaluable contribution. The only problem is that Easy Populate doesn't cater for the additional product dimension fields. I had to modify the Easy Populate code to accomodate these. I've now managed to do this and have it working very successfully.

I hope this info helps you out a little and may explain why you are getting these apparent anomolies with your Australia Post shipping estimates.

Cheers
GAM

G'day V,

> However, since the packaging is 23x15 I am not going to stack one
> item on top of the other, I am going to lay them side by side.

Which if you really think about it, is a rather illogical way to stack/pack flat items.
Example, suppose you were selling framed portraits that measured
500cm x 500cm x 2cm, and you sold two of them, what size parcel would you create? 1000cm x 500cm x 2cm or 500cm x 500cm x 4cm?

The only "logical" way is to stack the items by height.

Also, keep in mind that the AustPost module doesn't have any concept of the size of your packaging. All it knows about are the size of the items, and as mentioned, it stacks them by height.

IMPORTANT: Height, width and length are all 'relative' measurements, not absolute. What this means is that if you define item "A" as
20h x 10w x 30l and item "B" as
30h x 10w x 20l
The AP module will -re-orientate them as both being
10h x 20w x 30l - iow, the longest measurement is always the length, and the shortest measurement becomes the height.

> And when you say give your products accurate dimensions and any > items that are of different dimensions will need to be explicitly
> defined, I don't undertsand where I would do this. When creating a > new prodcut all I can enter is its weight, qty, model and image.

I see that GAM has already explained this one to you. (thanks GAM).

Cheers
Rod.

Thank you Gam for your help.

I've reinstalled the files of the mod and now I am getting the extra dimension fields on the items.

I also changed the code as per your suggestions in page 2 of this thread.

Where you said:
"Additionally, I have changed my 'Default Parcel Size' to L5xW5xH2 (H2 being the most important), as the code uses the max dimension of Item and Default. If any of the defaults are outside the 'Letter' max dimensions, Letter size is not available. My suggestion to 'letter' people would be to specify the max letter dimensions... L36 W26 H2 (requires the .01 addition to dimensions in code above too, otherwise specify defaults as L36.01 W26.01 H2.01)"
Do I change the default parcel size in the admin>modules>shipping to L5xW5xH2 or to L36 W26 H2?

And: "For the stacking problem, I will use a workaround along the lines of the following:

- Very small and 'thin' (<20mm) items that could be packed up to 10 to a large envelope, Height specified as 2cm/8 (to be safe)

- Small and 'thin' (<20mm) items that could be packed up to 6 to a large envelope, Height specified as 2cm/5 (to be safe)

- Medium 15-20mm items that could be packed up to 4 to a large envelope, Height specified as 2cm/2 (being very safe)."

Where do I do that?

Thank you for your time GAM.

Not everyone sends picture frames as I gather you probably don't. I sell beading supplies so 99% of my items are less then 5mm high. It would be illogical for me to shove them in an envelope, let them bunch up into a ball and make my customers pay more than they have to for shipping when all I have to do is pack them flat into the same envelope and save them money they can spend on more items.

Have a good night.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vivaraquel

Thank you Gam for your help.

I've reinstalled the files of the mod and now I am getting the extra dimension fields on the items.

I also changed the code as per your suggestions in page 2 of this thread.

Where you said:
"Additionally, I have changed my 'Default Parcel Size' to L5xW5xH2 (H2 being the most important), as the code uses the max dimension of Item and Default. If any of the defaults are outside the 'Letter' max dimensions, Letter size is not available. My suggestion to 'letter' people would be to specify the max letter dimensions... L36 W26 H2 (requires the .01 addition to dimensions in code above too, otherwise specify defaults as L36.01 W26.01 H2.01)"
Do I change the default parcel size in the admin>modules>shipping to L5xW5xH2 or to L36 W26 H2?

---

That paragraph is a little confusing, sorry.
You would specify the maximum allowable letter dimensions (36/26/2) if you typically have products that could fit individually into a large letter. If, like you and I, you can fit several items into an envelope, then the minimum acceptable 'DRC Server' dimensions might be preferable (5/5/2). If you have specified appropriate dimensions for all your products, then it doesn't really matter as the 'default parcel size' only comes into play where no product dimensions are specified for an ordered product.

Quote:

---

And: "For the stacking problem, I will use a workaround along the lines of the following:

- Very small and 'thin' (<20mm) items that could be packed up to 10 to a large envelope, Height specified as 2cm/8 (to be safe)

- Small and 'thin' (<20mm) items that could be packed up to 6 to a large envelope, Height specified as 2cm/5 (to be safe)

- Medium 15-20mm items that could be packed up to 4 to a large envelope, Height specified as 2cm/2 (being very safe)."

Where do I do that?

---

In a spreadsheet of your products or other similar method.

I start with a spreadsheet, by supplier or product type, for all new products. These spreadsheets have numerous worksheets and formulas to derive my cost and pricing as well as list the various specifications of each product, derive model numbers, names, etc. Additionally now I've included columns that take into account a typical 'pack' size for each product and then determine the number of packs that can fit in a large envelope.

For instance,
1. 50 rivets fit into a small 75x50x15mm satchel
2. 1 metre of 6mm cable sleeving rolled up fits into the same satchel at 75x50x6.5mm
3. 20 small screws fit into a small satchel at 20x45x5mm
4. 1 fan grill is 125x125x5mm individually

So, I can fit approx....
1. Lx4, Wx5, Hx1 = 20 items per large envelope. (20mm/20)x2 = 2. I specify Height for this product as 0.2cm. 2cm/0.2cm = 10... items per package as calculated by AustPost before a parcel is determined. I go with half the number for good measure. Typically my weight will determine a parcel at these quantities, but I am also not sure what to expect when thick products are mixed with many thin products, hence erring heavily on the side of caution. ;)

2. Lx4,Wx5,Hx3 = 60 items. (20mm/60)x2 = 0.67. Height for this product is 0.07cm. 2cm/0.07 = 28 metres (items) of cable sleeving per large envelope.

4. Lx2,Wx2,Hx4 = 16 items. (20mm/16)x2 = 2.5. Height for this product is 0.25cm. 2cm/0.25 = 8 fan grills per large envelope.

Quote:

---

Thank you for your time GAM.

Not everyone sends picture frames as I gather you probably don't. I sell beading supplies so 99% of my items are less then 5mm high. It would be illogical for me to shove them in an envelope, let them bunch up into a ball and make my customers pay more than they have to for shipping when all I have to do is pack them flat into the same envelope and save them money they can spend on more items.

Have a good night.

---

Agreed.

I hope this helps.

Good luck,
GAM

Thanks GAM.

What I meant at the beginning of my last post is that I re uploaded the module to make sure all the files uploaded correctly and now I am able to enter the item's dimension when creating a new product.

I have set the min dimesions of 5x5x2 on the shipping module until I am able to set each items diemensions. But I am still having trouble with the o'seas costs so I'll disable those and use zone rates until I can get it fixed.

Thank you, now I can have my site open again. It's been a horrible week and I appreciate you helping me out.

Have a nice day, Raquel.

Hi Raquel,

No problem with the assitance. :D

You may realise this, but I thought I'd point it out just in case.

Due to the stacking method and in the absence of individually dimensioned products (<2cm), you will only get a Letter rate quote for a single item order. Any more than one item ordered will still default to Parcel rates as the 'Default Parcel Size' Height parameter is 2cm. 2 items in an order means 2x2cm i.e., 4cm height for the order, therefore 'parcel' rates.

Cheers
GAM

Yep, I am aware of that.

As I was lying in bed last night I was thinking, as you do ... Rod said this in one of the posts:
"IMPORTANT: Height, width and length are all 'relative' measurements, not absolute. What this means is that if you define item "A" as
20h x 10w x 30l and item "B" as
30h x 10w x 20l
The AP module will -re-orientate them as both being
10h x 20w x 30l - iow, the longest measurement is always the length, and the shortest measurement becomes the height."

Is there a way to do it where when there are more than 1 product the module uses the biggest height as the overall height rather than stacking it, at least for my own module as I know most other sellers will need them to stack.

Just a thought, thanks.

G'day V,

> Is there a way to do it where when there are more than 1 product > the module uses the biggest height as the overall height rather
> than stacking it, at least for my own module as I know most other > sellers will need them to stack.

If we do it this way we then end up with serious problems in other areas, in particular, we would rapidly exceed the allowed dimensions for the parcels length (probably not an issue with your products).

In fact this is already an issue even with the current code, because when enough items get 'stacked' the height of the parcel then becomes the length of the parcel, so it needs to be re-orientated again. When the length (ex height) exceeds the allowable length of AustPost the parcel is then 'cut in half' and the items stacked side by side, the parcel is then re-oriented again and additional items are then stacked on top of the new height (which is going to be either the old length or width).

If all of this sounds a bit confusing, try adding a product to your store that measures a nice round 100mm x 100mm x 100 mm, then proceded to 'purchase' multiple items of this object - You'll soon see from the displayed dimensions how these nice simple 'cubes' not only get 'stacked' atop each other, but also how once it reaches a certain height it'll half the height, restack them side by side, then start adding any more items to the new height.

I do appreciate that none of this is of much help to you or the products you sell, but please bear in mind that the AP module really is primarily designed to give quotes for parcels - The 'letter' options are an added afterthought, and ideally should probably be approached in an entirely different manner. For example, if you take a look at the Canada post module, they have taken a different approach entirely - Whereas the AP module takes the items and attempts to determine the size of the final parcel, the CP module defines the size of your packing boxes and attempts to fit as many items into the area or those boxes, adding boxes as required.
Needless to say, this method also has its issues and drawbacks, such as ending up with 2 boxes (same size) one of them packed to the brim, and the other with a single item and lots of air. However, I believe that this approach is probably more suitable for your requirements.

Cheers
Rod

Thanks Rod, it does make sense.

I'll just keep an eye on it and see how it goes. It should be ok, I've entered dimesions for each individual item and after all my shipping charges are cheaper than most of my competitors so I shouldn't get complaints.

It may be good to have 2 AP mods, one for letters and large letters and another for parcels. I am not saying you should do this but maybe in the future it may be a better option.

Have a nice day,
Raquel.

G'day V,

> It may be good to have 2 AP mods, one for letters and large letters > and another for parcels.

We'd still have the issue of trying to determine what (and how many) store items can be added to package before it changes from a letter to a parcel.

Hmm, I just realised, the AP module uses both weight and dimensions for this, so in theory, if you set accurate weights, and set the dimensions as small as possible, eg, 1mm x 1mm x 1mm, then as long as your total weight doesn't exceed letter limits you should be able to get up to 19 items in a single 'letter' (before it reaches the 20cm width limit). The next item would push it over the limit and it'll be treated as a parcel. Depending on the weights of the items, 20 of them may be too heavy to be considered a letter anyway.

The only current problem with this is that the AP server will complain about the parcel being too small (assuming it gets that far). I posted the details on how to fix this bug earlier in this thread.

Cheers
Rod