Tax calculation problem - help please!

ZC - 1.51 with Credit Card PayPal fee module installed.

GST/Tax of 10% is not being charged on the PayPal / Credit Card fee. eg. 80.00 item,plus $1.09 fee shows the tax as $7.27 (tax on 80) when it should be $7.37 (tac on 81.09)

Order Total Module sort order is:

Sub Total 100
CC / Paypal Fee 150
Shipping 200
Tax 300
Total 999

Settings in CC/PayPal fee module are:

This module is installed
true

Sort Order
150

Fee
1.3636%

Minimum Amount
0

Allow Payment Module Fee
true

Payment Modules
paypalwpp,paypal

Attach Payment Module Fee On Orders Made
both

Tax Class
Taxable Goods


TIA
Any help appreciated as this is throwing out our reconcilliations and tax returns!

BUT - some orders DO calculate correctly:


Sub-Total: $799.00
Credit Card / PayPal Fee: $11.98
Fast Flat Rate (Overnight Courier Bag / Express Post Bag - Best Way): $19.95
GST 10%: $75.54
Total: $830.93

The only difference I can see is that it's a) a different product b) there is shipping involved.

BUT - some orders DO calculate correctly:


Sub-Total: $799.00
Credit Card / PayPal Fee: $11.98
Fast Flat Rate (Overnight Courier Bag / Express Post Bag - Best Way): $19.95
GST 10%: $75.54
Total: $830.93

Here is an order where the GST/Tax is NOT correct:


Sub-Total: $80.00
Credit Card / PayPal Fee: $1.09
Free Shipping: $0.00
GST 10%: $7.27
Total: $81.09

Also the percentages are not calculating correctly in the second example - 1.5% of $80 should be $1.20 not $1.09 - In the first example, the percentage is correct ie. $10.98

Settings in the CC/PayPal are:

Fee
1.3636%
Tax Class - Taxable Goods

Goal is to have 1.5% applied to item and shipping. The 1.5% is taxable.

The only difference I can see is that it's a) a different product b) there is shipping involved.

Anyone???

Or a suggestion where to get support, community or paid?

It is late, and I'm too slack to do the calculations, but the difference I'm seeing between the good and bad examples is the shipping cost. I don't know if you are applying gst to this or not, if you are and shouldn't be, theres ya probem. If your not and you should be, theres ya problem.

Where shipping is free (where you are getting correct calcs) the GST on shipping becomes a moot point as it will always be zero regardless of the shipping tax settings.

Cheers
RodG

Thanks Rod. It is very strange that GST gets calculated correctly on the item, surcharge and freight when there IS a shipping fee. When there is no shipping fee the GST gets calculated on ONLY the item and not the surcharge.

Any idea how not having a freight charge could affect the gst calculation of the surcharge?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by satphone

Thanks Rod. It is very strange that GST gets calculated correctly on the item, surcharge and freight when there IS a shipping fee. When there is no shipping fee the GST gets calculated on ONLY the item and not the surcharge.

Any idea how not having a freight charge could affect the gst calculation of the surcharge?

---

It is possible that you are making some assumptions about what the GST is being based/calculated on and it may not be what you think it is, and although it is another day, I still can't be bothered to run through your figures. I pointed out the only difference I see (saw) - I figured you could at least run with that to either prove or disprove this observation. At the very least, go back over the previous orders and see if the pattern is consistant. It shouldn't be difficult to confirm (or refute) whether *all* orders with no (or free shipping) calculate correctly, and *all* order where there is a shipping charge calculate incorrectly - Basically what I'm saying is confirm the theory/observation 1st, and then worry about the the reason *why* afterwards.
If the observation/theory proves to be incorrect then we're barking up the wrong tree, so trying to explain the 'why' becomes a moot point.

My approach towards diagnosis on this would be to simplify the figures. IOW, instead of using the examples you gave, with two different products and prices, and a fee of 1.3636% try setting up a test product of say $10.00 , and a fee of a nice round 1%. Then place two test orders, same product. One with no or three shipping, one with a shipping charge - Heck, I'd even go as far to disable all but a flat rate shipping module, again using nice round figures (say, $1.00). It is much easier to see whats going on if your test data is consistant, and with nice round figures it is easy to see that 10% GST on $10.00 product should give a nice round $1.00 GST - if it doesn't then clearly that is a problem. The 1% surcharge in this case will/should become visually 'obvious' as to whether it is being applied to the $10ex GST price, or the $11.00 GST price.

I don't know about you, but I can't just look at numbers like $799.00, $11.98 & $19.95 and determine what the final amounts should be, and if the final results are not what they should be (after using a calculator) , I still wouldn't be able to look and this group of numbers and determine which one is giving the weird/wrong results.

This is why I really can't be bothered running through the figures/calcs for you. I'd need a calculator. With simpler/round figures the errors tend to be visually obvious.

Cheers
Rod

Hi Rod, what you describe is pretty much what has been done to date - except we DO have a calculator to hand.

The results are consistent across all products, ie. those with freight calculate correctly (flat rate); and those with free shipping (virtual product) calculate GST wrongly; so we're already at at the "why" phase:-

"Why - when there is no shipping fee the GST gets calculated on ONLY the item and not the surcharge."

Completely stumped!

To put it together without numbers let's take it like this:

Product = Product Price inc GST
Shipping - Shipping Price inc GST
Surcharge = Surcharge Price inc GST
GST = 10%
GST Calculated = GST charge shown on Invoice / checkout

Calculates Correctly when Shipping is>0 ie. GST Calculated = (Product +Surcharge+Freight)/11

Calculates Incorrectly where Shipping=0 ie. GST Calculated= Product/11

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by satphone

To put it together without numbers let's take it like this:

Product = Product Price inc GST
Shipping - Shipping Price inc GST
Surcharge = Surcharge Price inc GST
GST = 10%
GST Calculated = GST charge shown on Invoice / checkout

Calculates Correctly when Shipping is>0 ie. GST Calculated = (Product +Surcharge+Freight)/11

Calculates Incorrectly where Shipping=0 ie. GST Calculated= Product/11

---

What happens if you change the sort order of the order totals so that the surcharge is processed before the shipping?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by satphone

"Why - when there is no shipping fee the GST gets calculated on ONLY the item and not the surcharge."

Completely stumped!

---

And I'm somewhat perplexed. I made an observation that I thought you had missed, namely that it could perhaps be related to the shipping cost. If you had already determined this in your initial posts then why didn't you mention it? You probably would have gotten more responses if you had. It would have shown/demonstrated that you'd performed the diagnostics and narrowed it down to the shipping as being the dominant cause. Your initial posts came across as "here are the figures can someone work out what is wrong fo me because I don't have a clue" .... Well, apparently you *did* have a clue (shipping cost) but you kept it to yourself. I now wonder what other clues you are keeping to yourself?

Cheers
Rod

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RodG

What happens if you change the sort order of the order totals so that the surcharge is processed before the shipping?

---

Hi the sort order is processed before the shipping, guess I'll try after the shipping and see what happens.

You're concerns about me "holding back information" are not warranted. If I'm asking for help I'm trying to deliver the best information I can - why would I not?!!! It's only whilst staring at this thread for days that it became clear to me this seems to be a key factor. Secondly I did "almost" deliver the shipping issue concisely, "The only difference I can see is that it's a) a different product b) there is shipping involved."

Let me correct that;

"The only difference I can see is that with any product there is free shipping involved."

Update - changing the sort order made no difference. Still - with free freight - GST is not calculated and added on the surcharge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by satphone

Update - changing the sort order made no difference. Still - with free freight - GST is not calculated and added on the surcharge.

---

Humour me. Please provide the figures that you are currently seeing for the test/example in message#3 with free shipping.

Thx
Rod

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RodG

Humour me. Please provide the figures that you are currently seeing for the test/example in message#3 with free shipping.

Thx
Rod

---

OK - as posted in number 3, it's only happening where shipping is free. ie. The GST gets calculated on only the item price and not the item price + surcharge.

Sub-Total: $80.00
Credit Card / PayPal Fee: $1.09
Free Shipping: $0.00
GST 10%: $7.27 (This is the correct GST for $80, not the total of $80 + $1.09 surcharge, it should be $7.37)

This is consistent across all products and categories.

Total: $81.09

Got me stumped as to how the shipping cost can change the way GST is calculated!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by satphone

OK - as posted in number 3, it's only happening where shipping is free. ie. The GST gets calculated on only the item price and not the item price + surcharge.

Sub-Total: $80.00
Credit Card / PayPal Fee: $1.09
Free Shipping: $0.00
GST 10%: $7.27 (This is the correct GST for $80, not the total of $80 + $1.09 surcharge, it should be $7.37)

This is consistent across all products and categories.

Total: $81.09

Got me stumped as to how the shipping cost can change the way GST is calculated!

---

Please continue to humour me here... now change the sort order back to how it originally was (or if you already did that please switch them around again) and then show me the results again.

Thx
Rod

(trust me, I do have good reason for asking this, which I will explain after next set of results).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RodG

Please continue to humour me here... now change the sort order back to how it originally was (or if you already did that please switch them around again) and then show me the results again.

Thx
Rod

(trust me, I do have good reason for asking this, which I will explain after next set of results).

---

OK sort order:

Subtotal 100
Shipping 200
CC Fee 250
Tax 300
Total 999

produces exactly the same results as :

Subtotal 100
CC Fee 200
Shipping 250
Tax 300
Total 999

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by satphone

OK sort order:

Subtotal 100
Shipping 200
CC Fee 250
Tax 300
Total 999

produces exactly the same results as :

Subtotal 100
CC Fee 200
Shipping 250
Tax 300
Total 999

---

<gggrrrrrr>. I asked you to *show* the results, just as you did in msg#3 and msg#15. Try again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RodG

<gggrrrrrr>. I asked you to *show* the results, just as you did in msg#3 and msg#15. Try again.

---

Rod - I realise you are trying to help. But it is the SAME.

Sub-Total: $80.00
Credit Card / PayPal Fee: $1.09
Free Shipping: $0.00
GST 10%: $7.27 (This is the correct GST for $80, not the total of $80 + $1.09 surcharge, it should be $7.37)

In both sort order case - actual values - the same.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by satphone

Rod - I realise you are trying to help. But it is the SAME.

Sub-Total: $80.00
Credit Card / PayPal Fee: $1.09
Free Shipping: $0.00
GST 10%: $7.27 (This is the correct GST for $80, not the total of $80 + $1.09 surcharge, it should be $7.37)

In both sort order case - actual values - the same.

---

It isn't the actual values that I was interested in.

You probably don't even realise this, but *all* of the examples that you've shown have the "wrong" sort order when referenced against the sort order that you wrote that you had/needed.

Quote:

---

To put it together without numbers let's take it like this:

Product = Product Price inc GST
Shipping - Shipping Price inc GST
Surcharge = Surcharge Price inc GST
GST = 10%
GST Calculated = GST charge shown on Invoice / checkout

---

Your examples are *ALL* showing a sort order of
Subtotal 100
CC Fee 200
Shipping 250
Tax 300
Total 999

What you are wanting is.
Subtotal 100
Shipping 200
CC Fee 250
Tax 300
Total 999

You have successfully demonstrated that your defined sort order isn't being acted upon (or more accurately, you have failed to demonstrate that it *is* being acted upon).

I would suggest that you resolve/investigate this before delving further.

Cheers
Rod

Wouldn't have a clue where to start fault finding that!!

Start a new post, "Why sort order doesn't work?"

We've really enjoyed Zen Cart the last 3 years but it seems too "buggy", and i don't think too many are using it anymore - probably why the forum so quiet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by satphone

Wouldn't have a clue where to start fault finding that!!

Start a new post, "Why sort order doesn't work?"

We've really enjoyed Zen Cart the last 3 years but it seems too "buggy", and i don't think too many are using it anymore - probably why the forum so quiet.

---

I am not affiliated with Zen cart in any way other than using their product and I’m sure I will come off as an @ss , but I find your comment to be quite insulting!
Keep in mind that Zen cart was developed by an amazing group of highly intelligent people, and they made it open source, (FREE).
The forum offers Support on the (FREE) ecommerce system that you are using, that in my opinion is second to none.
You stated:
“I don't think too many are using it anymore - probably why the forum so quiet” , and I find your statement to be unjustified.

alexa.com has Zen-cart.com’s global rank rated at 113K and in the United States the rank is 52,000.
Every time that I have checked there are 300+ people on this site, 448 right now as I’m posting this. Again my opinion, but that doesn’t sound like too many aren’t using Zen Cart

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by satphone

We've really enjoyed Zen Cart the last 3 years but it seems too "buggy", and i don't think too many are using it anymore - probably why the forum so quiet.

---

You will not be able to find a user of any other cart that is not envious of this forum.
Buggy? If we took a look at why that might be for a sec. Most other carts do NOT allow anyone to touch the inner workings of the cart. No other cart let's you muck up their code and then provides free support from many including the developers. ZC out-of-the-box meets many standards that others will never meet.
Have a customer we are taking from magento to ZC. They have not been able to afford the $2k per month to bring their site to current. Their admin shows 16 critical, 3 major, and 3 general notices of things that need to be done.
Don't bite the hand that feeds you. Although you may think you're being asked extraneous questions, you'll often find (as in this case) that those questions (properly answered) can lead to a true definition the problem.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dbltoe

You will not be able to find a user of any other cart that is not envious of this forum.
Buggy? If we took a look at why that might be for a sec. Most other carts do NOT allow anyone to touch the inner workings of the cart. No other cart let's you muck up their code and then provides free support from many including the developers. ZC out-of-the-box meets many standards that others will never meet.
Have a customer we are taking from magento to ZC. They have not been able to afford the $2k per month to bring their site to current. Their admin shows 16 critical, 3 major, and 3 general notices of things that need to be done.
Don't bite the hand that feeds you. Although you may think you're being asked extraneous questions, you'll often find (as in this case) that those questions (properly answered) can lead to a true definition the problem.

---

I must agree with dbltoe here. I follow multiple cart systems on GitHub, and I regularly see bug reports or feature requests of things Zen Cart has resolved years ago.

Well now there's something! The module or Zen Cart IS buggy - it's not doing what it is suppoed to.

Came here for help and answered all questions, over and again. Now saying that;

a) there's not much activity on here (true)

and

b) we're still experiencing buggy behaviour

and

c) asking where we can get paid help

we get slam dunked.

Pity that these users responding are more interested in "net politics" than maybe trying to assist in an issue that will see ius leave Zen Cart. If Zen Cart can't calculate taxes correctly it is useless for e-commerce.

So what's wrong with asking for some help? Explaining why it is needed and being open to solutions.

Seriously if you can't contribute to the thread then please don't.

We've always been very grateful for help received and worked WITH contributors, but won't waste time on "fan boys" with no ability to assist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by satphone

Well now there's something! The module or Zen Cart IS buggy - it's not doing what it is suppoed to.

Came here for help and answered all questions, over and again. Now saying that;

a) there's not much activity on here (true)

and

b) we're still experiencing buggy behaviour

and

c) asking where we can get paid help

we get slam dunked.

Pity that these users responding are more interested in "net politics" than maybe trying to assist in an issue that will see ius leave Zen Cart. If Zen Cart can't calculate taxes correctly it is useless for e-commerce.

So what's wrong with asking for some help? Explaining why it is needed and being open to solutions.

Seriously if you can't contribute to the thread then please don't.

We've always been very grateful for help received and worked WITH contributors, but won't waste time on "fan boys" with no ability to assist.

---

In posts 3, 15, and 19 there was data posted, presumably as it was provided on the screen, but I notice this specific wording in post 19: "In both sort order case - actual values - the same." which tends to still indicate that what has been entered/pasted was the actual numerical values without sort order in mind somewhat as RodG has eluded and then a factor of group think has taken over as the conversation broke down.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, your looking for a solution to software that is 5+ years old, that isn't (wasn't) designed to operate on the php version currently supported by the php community, and if it has been modified to operate in that environment the changes made haven't been identified, to correct a problem that hasn't actually been explained as to why it either is being done or how it is permitted to be done. A paypal fee? I had paged through this thread when it was first written, I had even begun to bring up potential solutions, then well besides not being directed to how to find/recreate this paypal fee module it is difficult to provide detailed instruction of anything to correct other than what appears to be the general observation that the item must ship in order to support the proper calculation. What does that mean? What is/could be different at what point in the operations(? Well, there could be session values that have been modified at the point of calculation that may be needed to get the desired value, my guess is that there is some "section" within this charge the paypal purchaser with a fee module that checks for one specific condition/value and finds that it is not as desired to charge the fee. Of course that's also assuming that the sort order (or lack of adhering to it) has nothing to do with the issue. But if the statement quoted above is correct (no change in the numbers returned), then by induction the paypal fee plugin does its own tax calculation based on shipping information that is available and seems that it wouldn't matter where in the sort order list it was placed so long as it is presented some basic information. Therefore, it would seem that the issue is related to a "third" party offering and not to ZC at the heart of it. (other than as Rod sort of put it, others meddling with the code to try to give/return something that may benefit others). Yup, of course that could be speculation also as the condition described (actual sort of display) has neither been validated nor disproved...

Me personally, I'm leary about supporting a venture that on the surface of Internet searches is a practice that is not accepted by the "target" company, that hasn't been explained as to why it is allowed to be charged, and however remote runs the risk of affecting me and the ability to use that company.

Remember, those viewing this thread see only what has been provided. Some may go and search other threads in which you have posted something to possibly gather information (or perhaps they have read it recently and recall), those responding/posting do so because they choose to post. It may not be to directly support the issue of the first post or the latest coding issue. There are those that are still finding their way, and those that are trying to help guide, those to help solve, etc... The "clinical" way to find people to do things is to ask the people, ask for resources or support, understanding that they too are able to see what is publicly posted. The world continues to go towards ever more social media/social "judging" or profiling. May the few posted statements perhaps made out of aggravation and despair not have an impact on finding a solution to the problem. Try to look at this thread by someone new to it. They don't know your system, they may know ZC, they may know a very specific portion of ZC, whatever the case, where the information provided doesn't point to a specific way to helping reproduce the issue, then it is difficult to correct it. This paypal module thing for example... what's to say it wasn't purchased from some company that sells car parts? Before allowing your blood to boil by the question, consider the point of view which has already been discussed: we know what is put on paper and what is specifically written. There are those that will upfront disclose everything, there are those that will elude to disclosure. I know I don't keep things short, I rarely know enough about the condition or situation to be able to give a simple yes or no only. I can't see ones response to be able to identify that they "got it" or not.

As for posting frequency? Perhaps looking at the situation backwards. The site provides opportunities to find solutions to problems related to software central to the site. This includes plugins and programs that extend the core functionality. So... if in one way or another there were no issues to resolve, then the frequency of posting would be reduced would it not? Now why those issues don't exist depends on a few factors: already have some sort of tech support in place to address the issue(s), there are no issues in the software, or perhaps the issues are in one way or another hidden/masked or in an outlier condition. It pretty much depends on the data review. What data is available and what point is trying to be made. Neither of which in my opinion relate to how the code calculates tax on a product that is or is not shipped..... jus' sayin'.