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Some thoughts about the admin
Well, now we have a "customising the admin" forum, I thought I'd unleash with some thoughts I've been having over the last couple of days of downtime.
Before anyone (hello Tony!) gets mad and has a mild heart attack and a kneejerk reaction, please, think about what I'm posting and why I'm posting it.
These new forums are a really good push forward. Maybe we can push things forward even more? All that follows is the combined three years of hearing the same thing over and over again from store owners.."the admin sucks", "the admin sucks" and "the admin sucks".
What Zen really really needs is a decent admin system.
The first person to write a javascript or ajax admin for Zen will be a rich man - I'd certainly pay for a copy!
I mean, the way Zen is, now, is geared towards tiny stores with a handful of products. Yes, you can Easypopulate thousands of products in, but then what?
There are some very simple tools to do mass updates of names and prices, but what if you want to move 20 products between categories? At least 6 clicks per product.
And attributes are a nightmare. Once you've worked out attributes (and I don't believe anyone fully has), you are then presented with a highly unintuitive system, where all the values for all the names are presented in a tiny, tiny box which needs masses of scrolling. OK, so I've made the box 100 high, but still, if you want to apply 15 colours to a product, why does it also present all the size options, when you can't use them? And why must those options be added one at a time? Why not allow multi-select?
I rather think that the team may have lost their way a bit with the development cycle. I mean, a major point release having a major feature of it being xhtml compliant?! NO-ONE, and I mean NO-ONE cares about that. Amazon isn't compliant, Google isn't compliant.
What the store manager cares about is getting the job done so he doesn't have to employ a string of students who all leave after a couple of days because the task of adding attributes and products is so tedious.
What the customer cares about is a quick response, not a system on a go-slow because each page takes close to a thousand queries.
If Ajax was ever made for something, it's this. The team need to sit down and look at the interface of, say, Wordpress. And even if they can't bring themselves to Ajaxify it, a matrix of tickboxes wouldn't go amiss...just so I could tick 11 boxes and say "move these to this category" or "delete".
The phpmyadmin interface is a good example of what I'm talking about.
Also, take a leaf from the Wordpress plugin system, where a plugin must follow a standard in which it identifies itself, its version, and its homepage. The world of Zen plugins is "drop me an email and I'll send you a copy, mate". No uninstall routines.
There are a couple of Zen contribs authors (Tim K etc) who write contribs to a very high standard, but the rest will leave you with over-written code and a database full of crap when you remove them.
I know they do it for "free", I know they are way ahead of Oscommerce, but their development system is closed source, and by that I mean "closed to suggestions" too. Gallery have a "features vote" system whereby someone adds a wanted feature, others vote on it, and the top votes get priority. That way, things the developers didn't even know were wanted, like bulk watermarking, hidden galleries and flickr style tagging, have been incorporated. But the same basic functionality which would make Zen a winner has been asked for for 3 years now, with barely a hint of a "perhaps in the future" response.
Anyway, rant over. Thoughts?
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
Kelvyn, no heart attak,
no hollaring,
how about you listen to what the devs have been telling you
The admin is due to be redone, however the part that the customer sees needed done first.
that is the part that makes you the money...
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
Would not this post been better placed somewhere in the new "Configuring the admin" forum area?:smartass:
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlinpa1969
Kelvyn, no heart attak,
no hollaring,
how about you listen to what the devs have been telling you
The admin is due to be redone, however the part that the customer sees needed done first.
that is the part that makes you the money...
As far as I can see customers been placeing orders since i started with 1.2.5 or whatever.
I do very much agree with kelvyn.
What difference does it make if customers can place orders if there aren't any products available to place in the cart?
Thank God for Easypopulate! Where's Easyattributes? :P
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
The very last paragraph of your commentary is excellent.
The developers, if they are really interested in improving ZC *for* the community, should implement something like this.
Perhaps the first two items up for voting should be:
1. Standardizing how contributions work
2. Improving how to set attributes
ZC has a lot of potential and a small development team.
I have in the past commented about Macromedia's extension model -- the code is closed-source, the method of extending is open, consistent, standardized, and quite open!!
Such a method of standardizing contributions would pique the interest of advanced programmers who enjoy coding and store owners who require some specific functionality sooner rather than later.
Hopefully 2006 will bring improvements in these areas.
Thank you, Tom
P.S. The forum font size is WAY too small, please increase it!! Not everyone on this list has 20/10 eyesight like whoever developed this forum, smile!!
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
Quote:
Originally Posted by kelvyn
What the store manager cares about is getting the job done so he doesn't have to employ a string of students who all leave after a couple of days because the task of adding attributes and products is so tedious.
LOL that is funny because I hired my nephew in high school to do this... but he hasn't gone away yet. I pay too much I guess. :yes:
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
Quote:
Originally Posted by kelvyn
What Zen really really needs is a decent admin system.
.....
And attributes are a nightmare. Once you've worked out attributes (and I don't believe anyone fully has), you are then presented with a highly unintuitive system, where all the values for all the names are presented in a tiny, tiny box which needs masses of scrolling. OK, so I've made the box 100 high, but still, if you want to apply 15 colours to a product, why does it also present all the size options, when you can't use them? And why must those options be added one at a time?....
IMHO Zencart already has a decent admin system. It communicates with the core code and does what it was designed to do. Sure, it is not intuitive but that would require cosmetic changes not core code changes.
The features you want regarding attributes need an external system not part of the admin code. This external system should communicate directly with the database and not the admin. This means an external database application for offline usage, which dumps the data back into the online database when ready.
I have developed such a system and it has not been easy. I now understand why Zen Dev have not bothered doing one. Quite simply, in order to cater for every store type, attribute type, admin function and plugin connectivity, the offline application development is enourmous. I really mean it - we are talking immense development time. In effect it requires a seperate development team dedicated to working just on this application so as zencart evolves, the update system for managing store inventory evolves too. I doubt Zen Dev could spare the time, so cosmetic changes and minor tweaks is what the admin system will receive. Quite right too because the front end is what sells the products (as Tony pointed out).
Now curiously, when I asked for help mapping the system I created and improving it, nobody came forward. Only one person donated to the admin help system I was developing to run concurrently alongside the offline database management system. So again, I don't blame Zen Dev for hanging back on developing the admin section.
For the record, I can upload 20,000+ items into the database with attributes and get them online within the hour. Sure there are issues and the system is not perfect, but if I tried I could probably load up 300,000 items. However, it is not ready for public release and at the rate of current development probably never will be.
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyJim
However, it is not ready for public release and at the rate of current development probably never will be.
Anyone else wish to announce contributions which will never be released? :smartass:
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
There is no reason you can't do everything in the admin efficiently if it is laid out right. You don't need AJAX to do it either. :smile:
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodymon
Anyone else wish to announce contributions which will never be released? :smartass:
Ha - that is so funny. :)
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
I'm just greatful for Zen Cart. If it so terrible go out and spend your money on a program that does what you want. All this complaining on an open source (FREE) program? Stop complaining, if you don't like it write your own or spend your money!
Thank you to everyone involved in the developement of Zen Cart.
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
As I always say, "This ain't Burger King."
Although I DO like the way the first post on this thread sounded, I love my ZenCart. I too appreciate that someone has taken the time to not only offer this great store to me for free, but that they are helpful as well when we need help -WHEN WE HAVE TRIED TO HELP OURSELVES FIRST.
As an artist and a psychology major, I have a great deal of respect for the Zen team for sticking to their vision instead of allowing demand to control the source code for the ZC. When programmers start losing sight of the vision that they had when they started a project, then the program ends up with tons of bugs, confusion and no documentation.
Do we stop to consider the number of people who are working on the coding? Probably not. Do we care that they have feelings? Hmmm...some of us don't...we just want what we think we need-and we want it NOW. We scream, complain, demand, suggest, and make ourselves and sometimes others look like idiots(NOT saying anyone in THIS thread has done this-but I have seen this in the old forums); all without the least bit of consideration for these people who are GIVING their TIME to us for free.
You know, they could be making alot of money with the skills that they have if they invested the ZenCart time into their own wants and demands...but they don't...they work towards creating something that helps thousands of people make their dreams come true - and they ask VERY LITTLE - if anything in return. All THEY expect is that you will LEARN to help yourself.
I've not been able to afford to donate to them, yet I get treated very well and helped when I show them that I have worked towards finding my answers. I'm sure if I wanted to pay them what their time is worth, they might work excusively for me for a while...but I like to learn this stuff and show I'm putting some effort into making my dreams come true.
Usually I'm a very nice person, but I am going to say what I have to say, and I'm going to be blunt:
Your store is YOUR vision. You are trying to make it what you want it to be for your needs. You don't want them coming to your store leaving comments like those you all leave here...
ZenCart is the vision of those who are developing it. Any of us who sit around here in their 'home' and throw these little fits filled with insults, rude critiques and demands, are darn lucky we're not banned like so many sites do. You don't tell an artist which colors, or materials to use...you let their visions come to life and you have a masterpiece...you tamper with them, you get crappy artwork...
Anyone who thinks they can build a better system - make your demands a reality yourself.
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Now curiously, when I asked for help mapping the system I created and improving it, nobody came forward. Only one person donated to the admin help system I was developing to run concurrently alongside the offline database management system.
sabastina
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
Sebastina I think you may have misunderstood the purpose of my post. I was making the point there is a huge amount of work involved in Zencart and I had attempted to build a useful add-on. I was trying to point out from experience the sheer volume of work involved, then underline the fact (and the reality) that the Zen team have produced a huge engine which works - they simply don't have the time to manage another huge seperate project. Finally I was trying to point out just how unwilling people are to donate to anything - even when they are screaming for the solution and the donation could be as little as $2. The fact is they just Want, want, Want and are not prepared to put in any time, help or money. Hell, they cannot even be bothered to click a Google Adsense link. How bloody selfish is that?
I am astounded the Zencart team have the patience to support them.
In short, I was politely telling people, backed up by proven experience, to stop complaining and either donate to Zencart or pay for their contribiution and make it available. Perhaps I was too polite and it came across wrong.
How is this:
Yeah - great idea to revise the admin and management system. You gonna pay or devote the time to it? If not shut up and stop complaining!
Is that better?
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Forum Font Size
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlyczko
The forum font size is WAY too small, please increase it!! Not everyone on this list has 20/10 eyesight like whoever developed this forum, smile!!
If you use Firefox you can increase it yourself. Just press CTRL+. This used to be a problem on the IPB-based forum because of the fixed width, but with the new liquid layout, you are limited only by your monitor size. (For some reason you can't adjust the text size for this forum in IE, another good reason to switch to FF)
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlyczko
The developers, if they are really interested in improving ZC *for* the community, should implement something like this.
Perhaps the first two items up for voting should be:
1. Standardizing how contributions work
2. Improving how to set attributes
ZC has a lot of potential and a small development team.
I have in the past commented about Macromedia's extension model -- the code is closed-source, the method of extending is open, consistent, standardized, and quite open!!
Such a method of standardizing contributions would pique the interest of advanced programmers who enjoy coding and store owners who require some specific functionality sooner rather than later.
Here's a contributor's take on what you say. I agree with the premise that the Admin is in dire need of an overhaul. Especially for those site developers who have clients needing to be let loose to maintain their own stores. I doubt the Development team disagree with this as much of the Admin seems to be leftover from OS Commerce.
One area that I felt was lacking was user access control. Although there was a contribution in this area, it was very basic and seemed to be no longer supported. So I picked it up, enhanced it, and released Admin Profiles. Now this contribution necessarily has to interact with all other contributions that a user has installed, so that should naturally make me inclined to agree with your suggestion that contributions should be standardised. But I don't.
It's not that I don't believe in standards, I do. It's just that I believe more in the energy and initiative that open source software unleases, and fear that once you start to apply the disciplines and structures that accompany professional software development cycles, you risk stiffling them. I can say without hesitation that if my contribution needed to be assessed for conformance to standards, I just wouldn't have done it. On the other hand I am happy for the Zen Cart community to decide freely for themselves whether it's a good contribution and worth using.
On the Macromedia Extension model i.e. closed source, open method ... well Admin Profiles was built on and earlier contribution, Admin Levels, and reading through the threads for other contributions, it would seem that it's not the only one to have a history like this, i.e. somebody has an idea, implements a basic contribution, gets bored wanders off; somebody else picks it up and takes it to a new level. My initial build of Admin Profiles used the core code from Admin levels, and although much of that has now been re-written, if it weren't for the open source model, Admin Profiles, and I suspect many other free contributions, would simply not exist.
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
For the font size in Firefox, another option may be more convenient.
In => Tools => Options => Content => Fonts & Colors => Advanced
And inside there, you can set the font you like.
In addition, of course you can set the Minimum Font Size of you like.
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
JollyJim,
Sorry! I wasn't intending my note towards you at all!
In fact, I tried to contact you off this thread but you are set for no emails or PM's.
I am interested in the project in your signature and am going to check it out atm.
Quote:
How is this:
Yeah - great idea to revise the admin and management system. You gonna pay or devote the time to it? If not shut up and stop complaining!
I think that's a wonderful way to put it!:lol:
Sabastina
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
Hi Sabastina
No problem. Strange you say you cannot contact me via the forum PM or email. I have both settings enabled. How odd.
Try sending me a direct email using the ############## doc project as the domain name to send it to. Sorry to be so cryptic but I don't want to be accused of advertising LOL.
JollyJim@PRettysureyoucanfigurethisbitoutSabastina
regards
Jim
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
I can't resist posting this little piece I wrote...feel free to use it, change it or whatever:
While I realize you are stressed, you need to understand how coding forums work in regards to helping people...it's not just ZenCart, it's pretty much the standard 'programmers law' as I've dubbed it...it goes like this:
I've spent years sitting at my [insert PC, Mac, Laptop as applies] staring at code for days until I ran out of [insert soda, coffee, pizza, beer as applies] and had to go get more.
I once worked on a project for [insert a number here between 3 and 36] months, only to lose it ALL due to an unexpected [insert special mistake-that OF COURSE was the computers fault].
I once went to an important [enter event here] with the imprint of a keyboard across my forhead from falling asleep whilst coding.
My idea of a shopping spree is finding that new ergonomical {insert product here} on ebay for a buck, because my [insert body part here] is KILLING me.
I can explain binary, algorythms, logic, & can work any my editing program with my eye's closed.
I've dedicated my life to coding - because it's what I love to do (believe me you HAVE to love it to do it longer than 6 months).
I WILL help you IF I know you are helping yourself.
(incidentally, they don't have special powers, they just know the code and can tell if someone hasn't helped themselves - like if members ask about something that is already listed 100 times on the forum in question).
If you attempt to demand my time and test my patience...I will let you know with blunt sarcasm.
If you cannot figure out how to use a search engine, then you should probably not try coding - I know a guy for hire.
If you can not read nor write a thread clearly at least 1 out of 3 times, you probably shouldn't be in forums at all...and WHY are you repeating yourself...I just POSTED the answer below - TWICE...
I am a blunt person who will lose patience with you fast because I have seen hundreds like you come and go and it doesn't really make a difference to me since you aren't all that interested in helping yourself.
I'm not answering you because you asked a stupid question, I was rude because you don't get my point; and when you push me too far, as I wrap up my final post to you, I'll just say:
READ THE DAMN MANUAL
(even if there isn't one because this refers to websearchs as well as any actual manual!)
And if you don't LIKE it, don't use my program.
And by the way, every single programmer that read this is likely to have noticed this above
Quote:
{insert product here}
. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Developers are awesome when you approach them without demanding expectations...they can be BRUTAL if you don't...and it's amazing how quickly a thread will become dead when someone is disrespectful to the developer! You'll only find gossips and complainers left on such threads...
Yeah, that pretty much sums up most developer's forums...the people here at ZC are actually pretty nice and helpful...
I'm only letting you know how it is...
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabastina
Although I DO like the way the first post on this thread sounded
Good start :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabastina
Usually I'm a very nice person, but I am going to say what I have to say, and I'm going to be blunt:
Your store is YOUR vision. You are trying to make it what you want it to be for your needs. You don't want them coming to your store leaving comments like those you all leave here...
ZenCart is the vision of those who are developing it. Any of us who sit around here in their 'home' and throw these little fits filled with insults, rude critiques and demands, are darn lucky we're not banned like so many sites do. You don't tell an artist which colors, or materials to use...you let their visions come to life and you have a masterpiece...you tamper with them, you get crappy artwork...
Anyone who thinks they can build a better system - make your demands a reality yourself.
Oh dear - either:
You're not now talking about my post OR
You completely and totally failed to read it properly, and don't understand my point.
If the latter, I HAVE modded the cart. I've tweaked as best I can. But the admin side doesn't fully support over-rides, and I asked AGES ago whether the layout could be changed (after all, add more than a couple of contribs and the left hand menu rolls WAY off the screen, even at 1280x1024, meaning clever use of a 3 button mouse needed to click lowest items).
It's about priorities - the Zen Cart site looks fine now - it's fantastic. A billion times better than the tired old site. With all the things that Zen Cart does
need, what do you think a competition should be held for first?
The admin design? Better "store owner" documentation? Better standards for over-rides and plugins? No: "The preparations are being made to hold a template design contest for the Powered by Zen Cart Support Site."
There is NOTHING WRONG with the Support Site! I'm colourblind and have lots of trouble with sites, but the scheme, layout, design and colours work fine for me here. It's not broke, why not use people's skill and goodwill to re-design the admin?
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
Quote:
Originally Posted by kelvyn
I HAVE modded the cart. I've tweaked as best I can. But the admin side doesn't fully support over-rides, and I asked AGES ago whether the layout could be changed (after all, add more than a couple of contribs and the left hand menu rolls WAY off the screen, even at 1280x1024, meaning clever use of a 3 button mouse needed to click lowest items).
In case you don’t know, some dumb tricks may help browsing the menu easily.
1. Get a mouse with wheel functions. The wheel helps smooth menu browsing.
2. If don't use wheel mouse for any reasons. Then while pointing the mouse cursor on the MENU, you can also combine with the use of the UP and DOWN keys of the keyboard. This gives the functions like the wheel of the mouse.
(Please note the Mac mouse only with one button!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kelvyn
It's about priorities - the Zen Cart site looks fine now - it's fantastic. A billion times better than the tired old site. With all the things that Zen Cart does
need, what do you think a competition should be held for first?
The admin design? Better "store owner" documentation? Better standards for over-rides and plugins? No: "The preparations are being made to hold a template design contest for the Powered by Zen Cart Support Site."
If you don't like this, why you keep your mouth shut and don’t against the others who whining for new template design?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kelvyn
There is NOTHING WRONG with the Support Site! I'm colourblind and have lots of trouble with sites, but the scheme, layout, design and colours work fine for me here. It's not broke, why not use people's skill and goodwill to re-design the admin?
Yes, personally the feel of the new forum very comfortable. :cool:
Again, there are still whining for the fonts, colors, pics and re-design. It is sad that, someone even almost pointing to the nose. :shocking:
I think I am the first one told some of them to get the Firefox and Stylish extension. By which they can work out their tastes in their browsers.
For the contest, it’s always a good idea to increase the members’ involvement. :smile:
Please note the contest is the graphic, theme, template design. And re-design the Admin seems need programming consideration. In the first thought, they are two categories.
Any way, as long as it doesn’t take much of the times from the Dev Team, why have excess words about it? :wink2:
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
Kelvyn,
You have obviously been involved in the Zen community for a long time. So, ZC must work for you at some level that is efficient else you would have moved on to something else. Your second clarifying post notwithstanding, you seem to think ZC is an old hag and that the dev are a bunch of miguided ##########.
Primarily, you seem to be complaining that you have a problem with the admin. It is a problem that is obviously managable (you are still using ZC remember) but makes your life difficult. Fair enough.
However, are you getting the picture that very few people, if anyone, shares your level of frustration? If you merely wanted to start a flame throwing contest, well, Success! On the other hand, if you really desire some progress on the admin you have likely taken a step backward. You just made people mad rather than inspire them to help solve your problem.
I, for one, do not have the programming skills to help with what you want done. I suspect that the number of people in this forum that DO have the skills is very small. Further, those with the skills, like the dev team, have limited time to devote to such a project. We could of course raise the money to put the dev team on full-time. I am donating and of course you are donating. Since you feel so free to blast their decision making you must be donating a great deal. Your sarcasm about the template contest was especially poignant.
Have I got this right? You are mad because the dev team has not addressed a problem that you have but are managing to live with. Mostly you are mad that they disagree with your sense of priority because they have said they intend to deal with it, just not as quickly as you would like. In order to prompt some support for your view you insulted the dev team and belittled the cart and community for not seeing it your way. Then, when happy zenners defended the team, you got huffy because no one seems to agree with and consequently you became ill-tempered over the template contest.
Is that about right?
I conclude you were mad and just needed to get some stuff off your chest so you posted a flame that was sure to get everyone riled up. Yes, that must be it. Otherwise, you really were expecting the community to line up with you and bash the dev team into submission. But ... that would indicate that you are just ungrateful and sour.
No, I like the first explanation better. Cheer up. Life is good. The cup is much more than half full. Be grateful.
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sermonzone
Kelvyn,You have obviously been involved in the Zen community for a long time.
Yes, over 2 years now.
Quote:
you seem to think ZC is an old hag and that the dev are a bunch of miguided ##########.
However, are you getting the picture that very few people, if anyone, shares your level of frustration?
Not at all. Whether those people asre willing to stand up and be counted is a different matter. Quite often, people don't seem to want to be seen making a fuss. Therefore, make exactly this point on some of the other Zen Cart forums around (have a google)
Often, they can't be bothered. That's all fine. Their choice.
Then, far worse, and what bothers me, are those who say "it's free, therefore you have no right to make any suggestions".
Quote:
if you really desire some progress on the admin you have likely taken a step backward. You just made people mad rather than inspire them to help solve your problem.
I don't see that at all.[QUOTE]I, for one, do not have the programming skills to help with what you want done. I suspect that the number of people in this forum that DO have the skills is very small. Further, those with the skills, like the dev team, have limited time to devote to such a project. [QUOTE]So why not make a priority of making the admin side over-rideable? That way, people COULD make the admin functional.
Waaay back, several revisions ago, before the database indexing had happened and slowness was a problem, while I was onto my third host because the massive amount of queries (897 per page instead of the possible 3 or 4) were getting me kicked off, back when every single new page requires something like 7 files to be added and edited, what was added? Music downloads! How many cart owners do you think offer music downloads, vs the amound that sit there moving one product at a time, while their morning ebbs away?
While we're on templates, why have a 3/4 template system, when most of the "core" modules over-ride files which don't have over-rides.
No-one's said what the problem with making pages and modules over-rideable so that contribs DON'T have to touch core code.
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Have I got this right? You are mad because the dev team has not addressed a problem that you have but are managing to live with.
I'm not "mad" at all, I'm frustrated
Quote:
In order to prompt some support for your view you insulted the dev team
If you think an opinion is an insult, well....
Quote:
and belittled the cart
wrongwhere?
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for not seeing it your way. Is that about right?
I'd say probably not, wouldn't you?
Quote:
I conclude you were mad and just needed to get some stuff off your chest so you posted a flame that was sure to get everyone riled up.
Be grateful.
OK, I wasn't going to do this at first. Clearly, you think I am alone in wanting to suggest improvents to the admin from the perspective of someone who has run three shops for 5 years using 3 different carts. So, why not have a poll?
Whether you care about Zen Cart or not, visit the poll
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
An earlier post in this thread said the changes needed to make the admin more pleasing are superficial page coding for layout.
That sounds like it should be easy then, layout is far easier than database integration for instance.
Is there a way to contribute to this project first hand and make it pretty?
Also when are the contributions sections coming back online? I know wrong forum but the word got trggered in my mind. Apologies in advance.
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
Kelvyn, the only issue I have is you keep hounding and the devs have said that the admin will get re-worked,
but they have an outline and a direction,
they have pointed this out several times in the past.
when the get to totally rebuild admin ( cosmetics isnt going to cut it ) on their list they will do it.
as for over rides, well you can over ride the module files, you cant over ride the modules/pages/ folders. and thats real simple anyway rename the old one.....
most people will be making changes cosmetically,. so they dont need to over ride the pages folders.....
there was a good logic there, and more and more things are being added to the template structure.. just give it time,
no one has discounted what you have said,
they have heard you, you havent heard them.........
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
I find the thing that helped me the most was going through the admin css files and changing the brown to a cool blue.. it made the admin atmosphere a bit friendlier to my subconscious:
(see image)
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
I just read this thread and am in dire need to throw in my 2 cents worth.It's funny how ppl can b**ch and complain about a "free shopping cart". You need to change this, I think this needs changed to accomodate this that and the other, when in all actuality I see the b**ching and moaning and groaning and thats all it is.Now in the real world," I am sorry I know there is more than just me out here in this scenario", I go to work everyday at a job where I supervise 40 women in the shipping dept of a factory.Now of these women 10 pretty much do their job and go home w/out much to say,20 of them have suggestions regularly to get the job done that is worthy of merit or is a good suggestion.And 10 want to just gripe and complain everyday about this that and the other.And when you try to satisfy those 10 complainers they find something else to b**ch about.They are never satisfied or happy in the least.Now I am sure the Dev Team feels the same way I do,The more you try to satisfy everyones needs,there is always someone or a lot of someones who are going to find something to whine about or something to complain about in what you just tried to fix or correct in the begginning.
Now in my instance, and I am sure the Dev Team would like to say it many times over but it is not good ethics or good overall for their bussiness, to tell these whiners and complainers you have several options:
1. Find you another shopping cart or for me McDonalds is hiring,
2. Fix the problems yourself i.e. Learn how to hard code and make the changes yourself.
3. Hire someone to do it for you.Then you'll have something to complain about there to..someone taking your cash.
4. Delete everything on your comp. throw it in the trash and get a real world job where noone cares if you have a complaint because they just want you to do the job and go home.
5. Make due with what you got and quit the complaining and whining.If it's worth note on making something good even better then post it, I am sure if the Dev Team thinks it's worth fixing or correcting they will get right on it.
Now as for me I am quite happy with a "free shopping cart", where yes I have bumps and glitches I need to address and fix, but I don't whine and complain, I ask for help and the Dev Team has tried their best to fix and help out.
You know it's funny if you look at what the Dev Team is doing daily on this forum and then everyone should stop and think,how are these ppl living?They sure aren't doing it by answering forum questions, because then it would be a ppp forum(pay per post).They are doing this as a post service to the shopping cart they have created.
My hats off to the dev team for creating an excellent shopping cart and taking the time to address the many questions and problems that arise.
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sermonzone
Primarily, you seem to be complaining that you have a problem with the admin. It is a problem that is obviously managable (you are still using ZC remember) but makes your life difficult. Fair enough.
However, are you getting the picture that very few people, if anyone, shares your level of frustration?
Umm actually it is a bit frustrating to use the interface as is. Especially when having to upload three different size images, many many mouse clicks are needed. I know there are add ins that will help with this but I personally dont like using lots of add ins because it makes upgrading iffy. And since the shop requires three sizes of pictures the code should automatially support resizing or there should be three upload slots on that page!
Now, onto the menu thing, I have noticed if you click the headings for each part of the admin menu it will go to a single page VERY SCROLLABLE menu all in the left column. I have used it once or twice when on a machine stuck at 800x640 at a friends house.
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gkrynen
Umm actually it is a bit frustrating to use the interface as is. Especially when having to upload three different size images, many many mouse clicks are needed. I know there are add ins that will help with this but I personally dont like using lots of add ins because it makes upgrading iffy. And since the shop requires three sizes of pictures the code should automatially support resizing or there should be three upload slots on that page!
The Admin is scheduled for rewrite in version 1.6. In the meantime (and possibly thereafter) you only need one add-in to take all the effort out of handling images and that's Image Handler. It's a well-supported add-in that shouldn't cause to many problems when you upgrade.
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gkrynen
I personally dont like using lots of add ins because it makes upgrading iffy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuroi
you only need one add-in to take all the effort out of handling images
IH is great, but it overwrites a LOT of core files. Bu that takes me down the "need file over-rides" line, which is a different tangent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuroi
The Admin is scheduled for rewrite in version 1.6
*sigh*
OK, where did you get that info from?It's been 1.4, 1.5 and now 1.6
I'm not saying you're wrong, I've not seen that info before, and that's going to be around 2009!
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
kevlyn,
You like to stir and stir, and then are not satisfied, it seems, with any of the answers or plans the Dev's have.
It is one thing to voice your opinion, quite another to continually harp on about an issue that has been addressed more than once.
I suggest that you quit being part of the problem and start becoming part of the solution.
If you find this not satisfactory, this is open source, take it and do what you want with it.
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
http://www.zen-cart.com/forum/showth...hlight=roadmap
and Image Handler2 only has 2 core file changes,
html_output on the catalog side and admin/includes/modules/category_product_listing on the admin side,
everything else is in over ride and extras files,
and it no longer gives images to the root or nobody
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlinpa1969
IH also overwites 6 icon files, but that appears to be to iron out some inconsistencies in icon sizes in core Zen Cart. Overall I'd say that Tim makes very good use of the override-like capabilities of the extra_boxes, extra_configures, extra_datafiles, extra_functions and extra_definitions structures.
Kelvyn, Dr Byte has just published the roadmap for Zen Cart. This is how it is. Live with it.
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuroi
SWEEET! I was toying with the idea of going to 1.3, and there would have been one and one reason only, and that would have been to allow me to use the Ajax attribute handler plugin.
And now looks what's happening TOMORROW!!!
Quote:
2.) Significant reductions in database queries [...]
(These alone have reduced queries from 840 down to about 160 on fresh installs)
3.) Attribute-Stock/SKU support
That alone makes it a must have instant-install. The diary is clear, the announcement is watched. OK, let's see if I can be the first with 1.4 this week :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kobra
You like to stir and stir, and then are not satisfied, it seems, with any of the answers or plans the Dev's have.
Did you actually READ the post, or did you just jump on in to be one of the kool kidz?
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
Quote:
Originally Posted by kelvyn
And now looks what's happening TOMORROW!!!
I just noticed that the post has been edited from "saying 30th May" to just say "May", but hey, that's only a day. The 2006 is in there and that's the important bit :)
Bring it on - I'm warming up my copy of Winmerge right now! Even set a rule to forward the announcement to my mobile phone :smartass:
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
Folks, the wording used to say " Proposed Announcement for May 30 release: "
as in ... the ANNOUNCEMENT was proposed for May 30. I published it a couple days earlier out of courtesy to those patiently waiting for an update about what's in store for the future.
I simply removed the title a couple hours ago to prevent confusion for future readers.
We wouldn't dare release 1.4 tomorrow or else we'd never hear the end of ".... but I just finished upgrading to 1.3..." ::ohmy::
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrByte
Folks, the wording used to say " Proposed Announcement for May 30 release: "
Which could only mean "Proposed Announcement for May 30 release:" - the announcement proposed for the release on May 30th, so I called up the stores, told them the news, subscribed to the releases forum, and cleared Wednesday.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrByte
as in ... the ANNOUNCEMENT was proposed for May 30
:sleepy: :huh: :blink:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrByte
We wouldn't dare release 1.4 tomorrow
OK, but please tell me we're talking days, maybe a week or two, and not months? I can't imagine I'm not the only one who's holding off 1.3 and waiting for a feature release which will help me, the store manager and the customers, and nearly jumped out of their seats when they saw it was due?
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
Quote:
Originally Posted by kelvyn
Which could only mean "Proposed Announcement for May 30 release:" - the announcement proposed for the release on May 30th
Not so. "Proposed Announcement for May 30 release" means "Proposed Announcement for release to the public on May 30" and is a normal form of words at the top of press releases and other similar announcements to indicate the planned date when the information would be released into the public domain.
Although I agree that it can seem ambiguous and it was unfortunate that the date was not amended or removed before publicaltion, in this context the intention was still clear from the content, i.e. that it laid out what would be contained in several releases. Surely you didn't expect that the Dev Team would make three code releases on the same day? If that were their intention, they would consolidate them into a single release.
Personally I'm grateful for the information and, like you, will welcome the releases when they are ready.
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
Kelvyn,
If you thought the "Proposed Announcement for May 30 release" meant the Dev team was proposing to release 3 major upgrades on one day then you have allowed your anger and bitterness to affect your judgment and language parsing skills.
Did you really think that all your ugly ranting had somehow allowed them to get months of work done in a week?
Your act is really getting old.
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
Thank you for the link to the roadmap (tips hat to Merlin) and also the information regarding ImageHandler file changes, because I did remember it had a lot of core code changes, but glad to hear that has changed for the better. I will look into it, though I have discovered having a artists tablet to click and point with actually makes the flow a bit easier than using my touchpad on the laptop.
I am off to check out the ImageHandler2 and to think more about a feature I mentioned several months ago. Instead of a Top Sellers box I am hashing out a Recently Sold box since it will be more active looking and may steer people towards things they personally had not thought of.
Also looking at a way to allow One of Kind Sold items to show in a showcase of sorts.
Back to inputting only a hundred or so new pieces to do.
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
I have to admit, after moron-friendly admin panels such as that of phpNuke, bBlog or even phpBB, I was quite surprised to find such a... Congealed? I can't think of the word I want. Try mixing congealed, complex, long-winded and viscous. That sort of explains what I'm thinking. :laugh:
The admin for ZenCart does leave a little to be desired, but it's functional and so far I'm happy with it. (Though, I'm having trouble with colour, size, and such, as I need to be able to offer lots of options and haven't really figured out how...)
(If my comments make no sense, forgive me, it's eight in the morning, I haven't been to bed yet, and I didn't read anything past the first page. :blush:)
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Re: Some thoughts about the admin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gkrynen
Instead of a Top Sellers box I am hashing out a Recently Sold box since it will be more active looking and may steer people towards things they personally had not thought of.
Cross Sell with Sidebox.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gkrynen
Also looking at a way to allow One of Kind Sold items to show in a showcase of sorts.
Instructions to add additional sideboxes have been posted in several forum threads. But I don't have any links to offer (all my links to old forum threads are now dead). Maybe search the archive forums. Some possibilities include hacking the Specials or New products sideboxes code to show selected specific products (that's what I did). Or use the updated scrolling What's New sidebox.
Woody
