Complete template/layout editor in admin?

[afo]

Some of the "changes" you're suggesting are simply matters of adjusting the stylesheet.

I still say you are proposing a huge amount of overhead where it's unnecessary. You'll be sacrificing speed and performance for "convenience". It's not worth the effort.

Go ahead and try to figure out how to do what you're suggesting. It's hugely difficult.

[gjh42]

"Name: (name of product, if differs from the database)
Size: (size of the product picture)
Font Price: (size, colour...)"

The name needs to be changed in the database. Do you want the product to have a different name on this page than on other pages?
Size can be set in admin > Configuration > Images for all product info main images, and you can save the image for each product in whatever size/shape you want. Sure, it would be nice to just say "make the image for this product this size", but is the overhead to do this worth the expense of code maintenance when you can already edit the original image file in Photoshop or whatever you have?
Other things like price font can be done with the Firefox Web Developer to find the right settings, then copied into the stylesheet. Developing familiarity with generic tools like that has wide applicability.

The fundamental question is how much work and complexity the developers should build in so that no skill is needed to use the tool.

[Vinyl Signs]

The fundamental question is how much work and complexity the developers should build in so that no skill is needed to use the tool.

You hit the nail squarely on the head there !
The OP as far as I can see - is proposing that zencart be made as simple as possible - so that you, me, your 5 year old child, or my dog, can set up a zencart...
I would say (and of course could be wrong here) that it is a very good thing to require a level of skill to work with zencart (still working on it myself of course)
I will try to explain - in my view - a lot of the software available today - is designed around "the wizard" approach - and I think it does no one any favours - there are many instances of this in a certain software companies offerings - and by applying the "wizard" approach - no one ever learns how to do things properly - they only ever learn how to "call the wizard" - in my view - a very flawed way of doing things - maybe I'm wrong - just the way I see it...

To get back to this post - if you introduce a way of adjusting the styling in the admin - without learning anything about CSS - you may have more people using zencart - but do any of them actually know what's happening under the hood ? - maybe it doesn't matter - depends on your point of view ?..
I happen to think it does matter - I spent quite a while trying to set up a zencart (the styling changes mainly) and had to leave it for a few months while I taught myself a bit about CSS - and I believe that has helped a lot with understanding how the styling works.
Please don't try to over-simplify the subject - because your audience can't understand it - by all means - educate your audience....

[yellow1912]

I will take a the OP pov here, at least most of that:
1. Business owners are the ones who run ZC on a day to day basis, not developers. They shouldnt have to learn about css, html and such. They should spend time operate their businesses. Asking them to understand css and such will be unreasonable)

And the current Zen admin is like a maze as well. The attribute controller, for example, drove me crazy (and I still dont get it all).
Improvement on the admin side to make things easier to navigate and control is a must, in fact it is in ZC roadmap.


2. With that said, it is very complex to let you control every single thing on the admin side. The "wizard" programs have their limitation, you are stuck with the options they provide, you can not do anything more than that.
So business owners have to rely on developers when they need something that cant be controlled via admin, and the developers (Me ) would be very happy if it easier to modify the template and such (which we expect to see in zen 2.0)

I think we are heading the right way now, and I hope beta 2 will come soon

[kobra]

Why isn't it a field to the right where you can type in your desired text and the it will automatically be inserted into the right place in the code.

While I agree with your vision in concept, I would have to state that what you are describing is over the top. ZenCart is a script for a cart and not a script for site design.

There are scripts to make site design simpler and most are html. In my opinion, there are NO site design scripts that do what you are suggesting. And most a very limiting.

Even if this were possible, it would add a layer that would make development a longer process.

This is open source, and read that to mean without the $ backing others might have. Look around at those that are not opensource with a model where profit should drive development. Like a YaHoo store - Look at what little they offer for design. So if this was what the market demanded someone might have moved to fill the gap.

I do not see where what you are suggesting, has been viewed by others as acheivable within the norm for ROI....

If you have definite ideas on a design function, this is opensource and you can add and change any or all of it. You might try creating some of the things you have in mind as you have the best understanding of them and how you envision them working.
Put your new education to work and learn about the cost/benefit hurdels that are present in any concept.

[Vinyl Signs]

1. Business owners are the ones who run ZC on a day to day basis, not developers.

There are many other cart solutions available - most of them paid for - some are simpler to set up - but may not have the functions of zen.
I spent a fair amount of time looking and testing a lot of other scripts and carts etc - and I came back to zen.
I can use zen for free - but that doesn't mean there is no cost - it means I need to learn a few new things to get the most out of the program ? - either that or I pay a developer to do it for me.

They shouldnt have to learn about css, html and such.

Maybe not - but just how far down the "wizard" road do we want to go ? - (and not only in zencart)
If you were to learn a new language - surely - it would take time and effort on your part to become fluent in that language - is zencart any different ? - or should it be ?
If you are not able to speak a foreign language - and need to - you either take the time to learn - or you hire an interpreter ?
Most programs take a while to learn - unless they are reduced in function to the point of useless...surely better to train UP to zencart - than down to some of the other offerings...?

They should spend time operate their businesses.
Asking them to understand css and such will be unreasonable

There are programs available that don't require any of that knowledge - most paid for...

And the current Zen admin is like a maze as well. The attribute controller, for example, drove me crazy (and I still dont get it all).
Improvement on the admin side to make things easier to navigate and control is a must, in fact it is in ZC roadmap.

Yes - I agree that would be very welcome - as you say the attribute controller is difficult at best...

The "wizard" programs have their limitation, you are stuck with the options they provide, you can not do anything more than that.

Zencart was the only cart I could find that had most of the functions I required - I guess I could have set it up with very few changes - instead I decided to start learning a bit more to be able to change a few things - it has cost a lot in time spent - but has been well worth the effort.
The fact that zen is a "free" program - I think may lead some to believe there is no cost involved....

I think we are heading the right way now, and I hope beta 2 will come soon

Yep - couldn't agree more..