Unable to upload media using media manager

[ThomasT]

Ah, so I need to copy every bit of code/markup I've written and paste it into the files of the new version of Zen Cart, and then upload?

[DrByte]

That's the concept, yes.
Naturally, if there's stuff you no longer need/want, you can skip that.
And, if you've made any override files, you'll need to do similarly with those too.

[ThomasT]

OK, I understand. I think I should point out that that's not really "upgrading" as much as it is "redoing the whole site." That costs businesses more money paying developers and weighs against the free aspect of Zen Cart.

Do you guys expect to restructure things so that modular/automatic upgrades will be possible in the future? I'm curious because as I mentioned this does add quite a bit of unexpected cost.

[DrByte]

It's not really "redoing the whole site", because all you're doing is combining your customizations into the new files.

Think of it like this ...
- A bug is found in a template file, for say the product-details page
- But you've customized that template file to add some special effect you want on your site
- Your upgrade needs to involve *you* to make sure that *both* your own customizations as well as the newly-fixed template components

And you're calling that "redoing" the site?
Sorry, that's not "redoing".

There's a little rolling-up-the-sleeves to get your hands dirty when upgrades come along. Zen Cart puts a lot of effort into attempting to keep upgrades as painless as possible. After you've done one or two, you'll realize it's not as bad as you first thought.
As to the idea of "unexpected cost", it's only "unexpected" if you had made incorrect assumptions beforehand.


Forgive me if I'm wrong in thinking that to "redo" the site is to throw out all your customizations and truly start from scratch, with a clean set of files, and a new design idea, and building from square one, not copying from work you've already done. As well as installing all new versions of addons and making a whole new look and feel.
THAT is complex, and time-consuming. And, yes, costly.



Pardon me if this sounds defensive, but ... I guess if you expect everything for free, then there's no point arguing the point, as you've got your mind made up.

[ThomasT]

From a business perspective, if I have to pay developers to go in and recombine code on pages they've already been paid to work on, it is "redoing." It doesn't matter if the code is being copied and pasted or re-written from scratch. It costs the same amount of money. I can upgrade Expression Engine myself without having to write a bit of code because the architecture was designed for non-technical people. That doesn't cost anything because I can do it on my lunch hour, without having to post questions or pay a developer.

What you have here is e-commerce, for businesses. If you're wanting to move forward into a paid product, or be more successful getting donations, you'll want to consider who your customers are. I have to justify every penny I spend and I didn't expect to spend any more upgrading the software.

The fact you've had to spend as much time describing the upgrade process to me could be seen as an indicator that it needs to be simplified.

I'm not saying this to be critical of your work, I'm saying this to help you out. You've got a good product here, but in the future you may want to reconsider how much time and money your customers may unexpectedly get into when they need to upgrade to a newer version.

[DrByte]

I don't recall forcing you to upgrade "unexpectedly". You chose to do that on your own after considering the advice offered.



But, thanks. It's always nice to have new mentors.

[ThomasT]

That was kind of a petulent response. If you plan on taking this project seriously, and expect others to as well, you will definitely need a mentor for your communication style.

If you re-read what I wrote I used the term "unexpectedly" in reference to the amount of time and money your customers may "unexpectedly" get into with an upgrade. Considering the fact you warned me of security issues with my current version, I can't imagine you'd expect me not to take your advice.

Look, I don't intend to get into an argument with you. If you look at the other free products on the market, you can see that upgrades are a bit easier. That's all I'm trying to communicate. If you'd like to make your good product even better (and certainly more attractive to non-technical business owners) you might want to make the upgrade process more quick and easy.

If you did so, you could even charge for the product. Honestly, I'd be willing to fork over a couple of hundred bucks to not have to go through this. Considering my salary, and the amount of time I've spent discussing this with you, it's already cost money.

This isn't blog software, it's business software. You have to think and communicate accordingly.

[DrByte]

ThomasT,
Your points are noted. We've heard them all before, some with a "i'm saying this to help you" bent, and others with an "i'm here to complain because I know better" bent. Many masquerade as each other. All of them consume time out of my salary too. It costs me money to spend time writing the software you get from me for free, as well as supporting the problems you encounter including those caused by your hosting company and not my software.
Nevertheless, we know the pain points well. And evidently you've not been around here long enough to know that a new version is in the works which is a complete overhaul of everything, with a view to making it easier to use in all kinds of ways, including upgrading.
That said, yes, you'll have a big upgrade to do where you *will* have to "redo" your whole site. But the actual work to be done will be a lot simpler, and future upgrades much easier, because the new code is much more modular and way more efficient.

Just like upgrades to your PC operating system and all the application software that runs on it, sometimes you have to plan for big upgrades. It's a fact of life.
Well, you do still have the choice to *not* upgrade ... you just have to live with the consequences. Same with your website software.

As you say, blog software isn't business software like ecommerce software is. As such, there are different complexities and sometimes corresponding undesirable differences ... and sometimes that means you might have an upgrade to your ecommerce engine that's more difficult to do than simple upgrades to your blog.

I hope you understand the view from this side of the desk.

Either way, I wish you well with your ecommerce business. :)