Just to clarify my issues and post i see concerning this...

I'm on a windows server that only lets me change the folder permissions...not the individual file permission. After running the installation or modifying the configure files and changing the Includes folder back...it sets back the permissions of all the folders below...including html_includes. This results in not being able to edit with the Define Pages Editor because the files are not writable.

So ...back to my control panel and back to the html_includes folder to reset permissions to writable. I find that in my case, the guys at tech support are willing to field these phone calls for help with individual files for free rather than give full freedom through my control panel. They hum and haw like it is a glitch but it isn't...they just don't want to risk unwarranted hacking that would affect the sever. I've been with them ten years and they are always there to help and are not in India, except on weekends ;)