Switching over, need help!

Hi everyone!

I have a few questions about Zen Cart, I am REALLY stuck and feel I can't even begin without having these initial steps prepared.

First of all, I currently have myself completely set up with godaddy. I already have working domains & a working shop in use (not Zen Cart yet). I have a main domain that has my shop's welcome page and a few other pages, including an important FAQ page. I then have my shop ('quick shopping cart', if anyone is familiar with that) set up on a subdomain (shop. ---- .com) and I would like to move all of that to a new host and use Zen Cart instead.

Ideally, I would like to eventually move things OFF of my subdomain and have that forwarded to my main domain. I would also like to have my new zen cart version of my shop hosted on my main domain.

My problem is I have no idea how to go about this in the best way possible to make the transition as seamless as possible. I am very worried because I have fairly consistent traffic and a LOT of followers.

I am thinking of two ways that might work...

#1 - Set up zen cart on a temporary domain and get it all ready, then move it to my main domain. Not sure how easy this is to do, and I've read that I have to edit configure files...? I would then close down my godaddy shop & have my subdomain forward to my main domain, where the new zen cart would be.

#2 - Set up zen cart DIRECTLY on my main domain, and somehow hide my progress on the shop from my followers. Is this possible? I don't want them to see weird tweakings and errors as I get zen cart ready. But then I don't have to worry about changing over domains.

What do you think would work best? I am completely new to zen cart, and I am sort of freaking myself about it. I know it would offer my customers more in the long run, and ironically my monthly costs would be LESS, but I don't want to start setting it up and have things become a big mess due to the fact that I already have working domains and a working shop that are taking up the space I want to put my zen cart at when it's all ready.

Please help! Thanks in advance. :-)

I'd do #1. Moving a Zencart installation is as easy as editing the paths in the two configure.php files. Great idea to move away from GoDaddy.

Thank you, that's very helpful. :-)

I'm still concerned about hosting itself, as I was reading in a zen cart FAQ article here that I need SSL, PCI compliance, and an FTPS (or SFTP, whatever it's called) support. Which of those things is most important? Should I be concerned about all of them?

As far as FTP, does a virtual FTP offered through a host work just as well?

Sorry to veer to another topic, but this all goes in line with the move itself. I want to be sure I have everything set & understood before taking the leap.

They're all important, and any decent host will offer all three. I don't see the need for Virtual FTP, since there are many good, free FTP clients. Many here use Filezilla, I use the FireFTP plugin for the Firefox browser.

Thanks again for your help! I've been looking at shared hosting, is that the wrong thing to do? I am completely new to hosting, I really have no idea what I'm doing unfortunately.

I use shared hosting, mostly. Check these hosts first: http://www.zen-cart.com/content.php?16-Compatible-Hosting

In most cases, hosts which try to upgrade you to other, more expensive, options (like GoDaddy) are just looking for more of your money. Many, if not most, 'dedicated servers' are just shared hosting under a different name. Try the basic package wherever you end up, and if it doesn't work for you, you can always upgrade.

If you are accepting credit cards directly on your site, you will need SSL, not shared but dedicated. Make sure whatever plan you choose allows this to be installed directly on your domain. You may also want to inquire whether the SSL will require a "mirror" set of files in a separate secure location; this is an awkward setup causing double maintenance and a good host should not have to do this. (I'm not sure if any mainstream hosts use this setup any more.)

I'm running zc1.3.8 on a shared hosting server and would like to upgrade. ZC1.5 requires SFTP, but my host says SFTP is not available on shared hosting and recommends I use Open Cart instead. What do people suggest?

Ousel:

ZC1.5 requires SFTP,

Where did you get this peice of misinformation from? It is true that where possible SFTP should be used in preference to regular FTP, but this doesn't really have anything to do with Zencart, or any other cart for that matter.

Ousel:

but my host says SFTP is not available on shared hosting

I'll bet that they don't offer this 'due to security issues' (that's always the response I've recieved). They just don't seem to understand that 'regular' FTP (which they invariably DO offer) is significantly more of a security risk than SFTP will ever be. It is akin do denying SSL for 'security reasons' and only permitting unencrypted Web access. Totally illogical.

Sadly, when a host gets into this mindset there is no convincing them of the real facts.

Ousel:

and recommends I use Open Cart instead.

I don't see how switching to a different shopping cart is going to change things for you.

Ousel:

What do people suggest?

I suggest you find a host that has at least a vague idea of what they are talking about. I don't know (or care) who your current host is, but with this kind of advice you should stay well clear of them and ignore everything they have told you.

Cheers
Rod
Adv dip Network Security

RodG:

Where did you get this peice of misinformation from? It is true that where possible SFTP should be used in preference to regular FTP, but this doesn't really have anything to do with Zencart, or any other cart for that matter.

Extracts from Implementation Guide contained within v1.5 docs folder:

2. Installation Requirements

2.1.4 Do You Have Reliable FTP/SFTP Software?
If No, stop. You need to obtain a reliable FTP software package such as FileZilla, WinSCP, or
Transmit. This application is used to transfer files between your computer and your webserver.
(“FTP” is a very common website acronym for “File Transfer Protocol”)
(“webserver” refers to the computer on the internet where you have your domain hosted)
You should use an FTP program capable of connecting in secure SFTP mode when working with your
website. Tutorials on how to use FTP/SFTP are available online from the vendor of your FTP software,
or generically from any number of online reference websites.
Whenever anyone mentions “FTP”, you should use SFTP instead.

2.4 Server Software Requirements

SFTP (Secure FTP)
You will also need to ensure that your hosting service allows you to use SFTP for transferring files
to/from your hosting server.

2.5 Other Installation Requirements

Your hosting service must also offer the ability to use SFTP for transferring files to/from the server.

So the misinformation comes directly from Zencart and is specifically mentioned 3 times in the first few pages (I haven't looked further).

I appreciate that Zencart is written by programmers, and often used by programmers, but some of us know very littly and have to trust what the instructions say.

There is no "misinformation" in the ZC instructions you cite.

What you are being told is that using secure ftp, in preference to insecure ftp, is a better and safer way of communicating with the server.

Secure ftp is something the host provides (or does not provide, as the case may be). It has NOTHING to do with how zencart works, and has no effect on the functionality of zencart.

FTP stands for "FILE TRANSFER PROTOCOL", and basically is a system whereby you can TRANSFER program files and all other computer files BETWEEN a remote server, and your local machine (local being the one on your desk).

All FTP does is enable you to MOVE files from one computer to another - in this case, between YOUR machine and the remote SERVER on which your website will sit.

It is BETTER if this movement of material happens over a secure connection, because it cannot be easily intercepted and interpreted on the way. Additionally, SSL over FTP makes your system less vulnerable to hackers.

Not many hosts truly understand the importance of setting up servers and ftp systems these days, to handle eCommerce websites, so you have to make sure that BEFORE you sign up with a host, they can demonstrate they KNOW how to do all of this properly.

YOUR host is just illustrating how ignorant they are, and you should take their comments as a BIG RED FLAG not to use them. You would get better service from the monkey-house at your local zoo.

If you are looking for a host that can handle your needs, click the SERVICES link in the header menu of this site.

Wave goodbye to the monkeys you are currently dealing with, and get a proper host. Even if you don't manage to get a refund, it will still be worth your while to get away from a bunch of incompetent buffoons.

Ousel:

Extracts from Implementation Guide contained within v1.5 docs folder:

2. Installation Requirements

2.1.4 Do You Have Reliable FTP/SFTP Software?
If No, stop. You need to obtain a reliable FTP software package such as FileZilla, WinSCP, or

Fair enough, I can see how you could come to the conclusion that you did based on those extracts, but, *most* people (not just programmers) would appreciate that the syntax FTP/SFTP implies one or the other. In no way does it suggest that this means SFTP only.

Ousel:

(“FTP” is a very common website acronym for “File Transfer Protocol”)
(“webserver” refers to the computer on the internet where you have your domain hosted)
You should use an FTP program capable of connecting in secure SFTP mode when working with your
website. Tutorials on how to use FTP/SFTP are available online from the vendor of your FTP software,
or generically from any number of online reference websites.
Whenever anyone mentions “FTP”, you should use SFTP instead.

This is no different than my own comment, where I stated
"It is true that where possible SFTP should be used in preference to regular FTP, but this doesn't really have anything to do with Zencart, or any other cart for that matter."

There is another paragraph just below what you quoted that explains why SFTP is preferred over FTP. Again, it doesn't say you *can't* use FTP.

Ousel:

2.4 Server Software Requirements
You will also need to ensure that your hosting service allows you to use SFTP for transferring files
to/from your hosting server.

This should fall under the 'common sense' category. If you use SFTP at your end, it must also be supported by your server, if not, then you can't use it, in what case you'll need to use the less secure FTP, and if you server doesn't support FTP then you won't even be able to use that.

Ousel:

So the misinformation comes directly from Zencart and is specifically mentioned 3 times in the first few pages (I haven't looked further).

I dissagree (that it is misinformation). The information is perfectly correct. For some reason or other you chose to 'grasp' that SFTP is a must, while completely ignoring that its less secure brethren was still a valid option. May I ask if you were also as adamant about not being able to install it because the previous paragraph (to the one quoted) states that
---------------------------------
2.1.2 Do You Have A Good Text Editor Program?
If no, stop ... you will need a good Text Editing application such as Notepad++, UltraEdit, Crimson
Editor, BBedit, Kedit, or maybe a more advanced tool like Eclipse.
----------------------------------

Do you HAVE one of these? Or did you think it isn't important?

Ousel:

I appreciate that Zencart is written by programmers,

Funny about that. Did it ever occur to you that all programs are written by programmers? <big grin>

Ousel:

and often used by programmers,

True, but it is used by far more NON programamers than programmers, so please don't feel that you are in the minority here.

Ousel:

but some of us know very littly and have to trust what the instructions say.

I agree with you on that 100%. In fact if you take a look at some of my postings made even in just the last few days I've pointed this very fact out to other people. See for yourself.......
http://www.zen-cart.com/showthread.php?195876-redirect-not-working-and-host-says-its-not-their-problem&p=1125644#post1125644

It is my very pedantic nature that caused me to ask where you obtained your information from. It wasn't to criticise or belittle you in any way, it was primary to find out how/where you got this information so that it could be corrected so that it doesn't lead anyone else astray.

I apologise if I gave (give?) the wrong impression.

Cheers
Rod

Thanks Rod for taking the time to answer in detail, I really appreciate it.
I take on board what you have said and I will go ahead using FTP.
I will add though that I do use one of the text editing programs listed, so perhaps I think all instructions are important (we are told to follow them carefully!).
I would still argue though that saying you should use SFTP implies that something may go wrong if you don't - otherwise why say it at all?
Many thanks for your advice.

Ousel:

I would still argue though that saying you should use SFTP implies that something may go wrong if you don't

I accept your arguement.

Ousel:

- otherwise why say it at all?.

It is said because it is good advice.

*I* thought that the docs made it clear that this recommended for security reasons, but on reflection perhaps it isn't quite as clear as I'd thought, especially if the person reading it has had no previous experience with FTP before. As I say, I accept your arguement.

Whether the persons that wrote the docs will agree with us and/or make changes as a result is another matter.

Cheers
Rod