Multiple Products, Single Product Page (query)

[KenBaker]

Query to Wizards:

In a nutshell, here's my challenge. I'm adding a product to my store (fishing rod) that has 15 variants based on slight but important variations of some characteristics. All 15 variants have basically the same product description with the same illustrative images. Rather than adding 15 separate product pages (one for each variant model), I'd hoped to create just one product page, include a table that displayed the varying characteristics, and let shoppers add their preferred variants to their carts from this single product page. So far, this approach works well; here's a link to the product page:

http://lunekeltkar.com/catalog/index...roducts_id=624

I can't figure out, though, how best to set up the product page so that shoppers can add their preferred variants to their carts from this single product page. As an awkward stopgap solution, I simply created attributes from the model numbers, so shoppers can call out the drop-down attribute menu, select their preferred variant models, and so place their orders. Using the attributes module in this way, though, is terribly inelegant, as I'm creating attributes each of which will apply to one and only one product in the entire store. Moreover, as I expect over time to add quite a number of similar products (one basic archetype, multiple variants), I would soon have a *very* large and *very* unwieldy attributes system.

To be clear on one point, shoppers can't pick and choose at will among the variant characteristics; if that were so, I would simply set up the variant characteristics as the attributes. Instead, shoppers may only choose among a series of 15 models, each of which has a set constellation of characteristics.

To the best of my knowledge after nearly a week of research, though, I can see only two options: Either I can use the lame attributes approach, or I can create 15 separate product pages. Either way, I'll soon have hundreds of one-off attributes or hundreds of essentially identical product pages. If anyone could suggest a more elegant approach, I would be most appreciative.

Regards,

Ken Baker

[KenBaker]

Well dang,

After posting this query, bang, right at the bottom of it appeared links to several threads that seem to address my query. I don't know why I couldn't locate these threads earlier, as I really did carry out (what I thought were) thorough forum searches before posting this query. Sincere apologies. I'll study these threads and report back one way or the other.

Ken Baker

[KenBaker]

Update:

The first "Similar Threads" link below I'd read, but not closely enough. This time through, I discovered a reference to the Product Attribute Grid, and I just finished studying (and installing) it. This addon is just slick as snot, and I expect to make considerable use of it, but it doesn't resolve my challenge at hand here. The grid presentation of attributes (a totally cool thing in and of itself, I can't stress that enough) still requires me to create attributes of single-product model numbers, so I end up with just a different presentation of the same untidy and cumbersome attributes approach.

So I'll press on with the other Similar Threads links below. I record my progress here only in case it might at some point help others dealing with this same challenge.

Ken Baker

[KenBaker]

Update and Despair:

I worked through the remaining Similar Threads links below, and they all dealt in one way or another with new ZC users who didn't understand how the attributes module worked (been there, done that myself, of course). Bottom line, the threads didn't give me any further ideas on how to list multiple variants of a single product on a single product page. So if anyone has other suggestions, I'm wide open. Failing any other solution, I'll probably just create multiple product pages rather than an hellacious attributes system.

Ken Baker

[twitchtoo]

Update:

The first "Similar Threads" link below I'd read, but not closely enough. This time through, I discovered a reference to the Product Attribute Grid, and I just finished studying (and installing) it. This addon is just slick as snot, and I expect to make considerable use of it, but it doesn't resolve my challenge at hand here. The grid presentation of attributes (a totally cool thing in and of itself, I can't stress that enough) still requires me to create attributes of single-product model numbers, so I end up with just a different presentation of the same untidy and cumbersome attributes approach.

So I'll press on with the other Similar Threads links below. I record my progress here only in case it might at some point help others dealing with this same challenge.

Ken Baker

Can you explain how someone walking into a store would purchase a product from you?

By the looks of your site you have:

Fishing Rod Model 1

Fishing Rod Model 2

Fishing Rod Model 3

Fishing Rod Model 4

I choose Fishing Rod Model 3 give you some $ and leave the store... All separate products with separate skus/model numbers yes?

[KenBaker]

twitchtoo,

You ask, "All separate products with separate skus/model numbers yes?" Yes, but to extend your brick-and-mortar analogy, I wouldn't build a separate display area for each of the separate models of rods. Instead, I would group all the (say) PENN rods together in one display area. When customers came in looking for PENN rods, I would point them to the single display. There they would select the particular PENN rod models that they wanted, pay for them, and leave.

I'm trying to do the same thing in the online store: That is, I want to group all like rods together on a single product page, point customers to that page, and let them select the nuanced models that they desire. I *know* that each model is actually a separate product, and I *know* that I can create separate product pages for all of the models, but here's what I'm looking at: I'm working with a couple manufacturers/distributors who are giving me great wholesale deals on a group of products. Almost all of these products (largely angling stuff) have one basic exemplar with 15-20 nuanced models. At this point, I want to integrate about 500 of these products into my online store. If I can create a single product page for each examplar, somehow giving customers the option of purchasing the individual nuances, I'll only need to create about 500 product pages. If, on the other hand, I have to have individual product pages for each nuanced model, I'll have to create 7,500 to 10,000 product pages. Even with the product copy function, that's quite a difference in initial creation and long-term maintenance.

Just to be clear, using the product example that I gave in my original post, I can either create one product page or 15 product pages. I would rather create just the one, if I can somehow manage it without doing violence to my attributes system.

Ken Baker

[gjh42]

If all of your individual products in this area have no attributes and are very similar, I would advise using the product listing page for the display, with full info on each item, and an "add to cart" button for each. You can put all of the common info in the category description and just include the unique info in the individual product items. It would probably want a custimized layout for best presentation, which you could get with Flexible Product Listing and perhaps a bit of custom coding if these pages want to look different from other categories.

You could customize the display to not link to the individual products but stay on the listing page for these categories.

Yes, you would still need to create the huge number of products, but you would need minimal info in each of them... and you will have to enter this info *somewhere* for each of the products/variants in any case.

[twitchtoo]

There is some need for discussing the depth of your products, listings and category organization.

It's all about customer flow and what you are describing as the customer view.

I have started research into product display/sales within products in admin and on the live site. One place to add related products treated as groups not independents. These would not be attributes initially, but later could include the attributes package. There are a host of applications but I like to keep the path the customer takes simple - less is more.

I believe you'll need a secondary product listing.

Continuing the bricks and mortar comparison this would mean:

Store = Zen Cart

Rows of shelves = Categories

Focal point of one group of rods = Product Listing 1 - (all manufacturer groups of rods perhaps)

Focal point of customer wanting 'Penn' rods on one shelf = Product Listing 2 - Short description, price, add to cart button and a view of all the related Penn rods.

Customer wants to buy rod #1234 but can see every other related rod in the same listing.

You could drill that down to a product info page for further add on sales but why?

3 click conversions are more desirable online.

Add on sales could come from sidebox marketing, banners, simple text links to the 'essentials' like matching reels or even worms treated as independent products - no product listing needed.

[KenBaker]

gjh42,

Thanks for sparing time to offer your suggestions, which aren't all that workable as is, but they certainly got me onto the right track. I'll state how in a moment, but first I wanted to mention something entirely off topic but nonetheless cogent. For some reason, when I viewed your comment without being signed in, ZenCart listed a series of websites after your signature. After I logged in, though, your signature (and I guess everyone else's) along with the websites disappeared. Luckily, before logging in, I happened to click on "Future Relics" out of curiosity.

Man oh man oh man! What a collection of absolutely stunning artwork! Whoooeeee, I'm still recovering from the heart palpitations.

Now, about your unworkable suggestion. I could in fact do as you suggested, but that would only increase the cumbersomeness of the effort. If I created categories for each exemplar, I would (as you point out) still have to create all the product pages (7,500 to 10,000), but in addition I would also have to create about 500 new categories. I feel quite sure that that's just way too much complexity, both for me and for potential customers. As I meditated on your suggestion, one point became clear to me: I'm just not skilled enough with ZenCart and php to handle this volume of products, no matter how tempting the wholesale offers from the manufacturers/distributors. I'll have to scale back my impractical vision to match my doable reality.

So here's the track that your suggestion set me on. Stripped of the ZenCart particulars, you basically suggest that I have an exemplar description ("Category") followed by a list of links ("Product Pages"). In thinking over this suggestion, I realized that I could manage it without having to create categories. Instead I could combine the document function with the hidden product function. I'm still thinking through the nuts and bolts of this approach, but I'm quite sure (okay, fairly sure) that it'll work with more elegance than I'm managing at present. I should have the experiment done by this evening sometime, so I'll drop you another note with an update.

Meanwhile, I would *kill* for that hammered thistle torc, but when I clicked the ordering information, I noted that you appear to be giving it away!

Cheers,

Ken Baker

[KenBaker]

twitchtoo,

I entirely agree with your approach, and I share your basic dictum that the less fuss the better. That's what I *almost* have on the current product page that I gave as a linked example (http://lunekeltkar.com/catalog/index...roducts_id=624): Customers come to the Store (ZenCart), stroll into the Outfittery (major category), and go to the fishing rod shelves (minor category) to see all the PENN Squadron rods on their display rack (product page). Now the problem emerges: Here I would like customers to be able to immediately purchase any particular rod that catches their fancies simply by clicking on the model numbers in the data table, but instead I must have them either select from an attributes list (clumsy and time-consuming misuse of the attributes function) or go elsewhere to make their purchases among a plethora of individual product pages (clumsy and time-consuming misuse of me).

Based on suggestions passed to me by gjh42 (see above), I think I've found a way past this impasse by combining the document function with the hidden product function. I'm working on it even as I write (not actually, of course, but in spirit), and I expect to have a workable solution by early evening. I'll post a followup note here, should it interest you to see the changes.

Regards,

Ken Baker