Email setting question

[yaritai]

I have a question on the setting for "Emails must send from known domain"?

Basically I been using it set to "true" which is default setting. But recently I have given my son the task of responding to customer questions. When I did it, I had to copy and paste the customer email when replying. However I would like to streamline this to make it easier for him. So I set this to "false" and it know populates the reply with the customer email address.

In my testing, all emails are being accepted. We use hostgator and route all mail to the google apps which all mail are handled there in the gmail platform. In reading the Wiki on the email tips, it says that the mail may get rejected if not supported. How do I find out if gmail or google apps needs this setting to be true? I read a post the other day that yahoo know requires it to be true so just want to double check before leaving it on.

[RodG]

I have a question on the setting for "Emails must send from known domain"?
<snip>
When I did it, I had to copy and paste the customer email when replying. However I would like to streamline this to make it easier for him. So I set this to "false" and it know populates the reply with the customer email address.

I'm confused. How can a setting for *sending* mail affect the data that the customer enters into the *from* field?


the setting for "Emails must send from known domain" should always be set to 'yes' unless you have a very good reason not too.

Cheers
RodG

[yaritai]

I'm confused. How can a setting for *sending* mail affect the data that the customer enters into the *from* field?


the setting for "Emails must send from known domain" should always be set to 'yes' unless you have a very good reason not too.

Cheers
RodG

Okay, so maybe I was not clear on a few things. Say customer sent a message with contact us form. Email gets routed to me in google apps. When I click reply, the "To:" field is populated with my store email. In order to send the response to customer, I have to copy and paste their emial address in the body of the email and put it in the To: field. Now when I set the admin setting for "known domain" to false, the To: field is populated instead with the customer email. Currently, I have it set back to "true" so he has to copy and paste till I get more info on if gmail/google apps needs it or not.

However, to answer your question, the stock zen_send_mail function in functions_email.php does in fact change the "from" field based on this setting to true or false. In the that function, there is an IF statement that IF the setting is True, then the From field will be the STORE FROM (store email in admin). If it is false, then the function will set the From field to the customer supplied email in the form when submitted.

Hopefully that addressed your question and the reason I was asking what the setting can be for gmail/google apps. I know yahoo needs it true so don't know if google followed suit. Any advice is appreciated as it would save my son in times he forgets to copy and paste the customer email before sending. A few instances, he did not catch it till the next morning when the inbox showed he sent a reply to himself and delayed the responose from reaching the customer in a timely fashion.

[DrByte]

the stock zen_send_mail function in functions_email.php does in fact change the "from" field based on this setting to true or false. In the that function, there is an IF statement that IF the setting is True, then the From field will be the STORE FROM (store email in admin). If it is false, then the function will set the From field to the customer supplied email in the form when submitted.

Yes, it sets the "FROM" field based on that setting, but that's NOT the "ReplyTo" field. The ReplyTo is set to whatever the customer entered.

So, if your email program is ignoring or not respecting the ReplyTo field, then you may want to sort out why it's doing that. I suppose it could be Google Apps that's mangling the ReplyTo, but you'd have to sort that out with them.

[yaritai]

Yes, it sets the "FROM" field based on that setting, but that's NOT the "ReplyTo" field. The ReplyTo is set to whatever the customer entered.

So, if your email program is ignoring or not respecting the ReplyTo field, then you may want to sort out why it's doing that. I suppose it could be Google Apps that's mangling the ReplyTo, but you'd have to sort that out with them.

Okay, your reply actually helped me track down the root cause which I found is a Gmail thing. This is what is hapenning on Gmail side. When the "known domain" Zencart setting is "True", it sets the "From" and "To" fields with My store email with the "reply to" field as the customer input email. The issue is that when gmail sees the "From" and "To" fields are the same, then it ignores the "reply to" field and uses the "To" field instead. This is verified in the google forum as not a bug in the gmail system, but rather normal behavior.

So I guess my question comes back to how would I know if the "known domain" setting can be set to "False"? Is this meant for non-domain name emails such as the generic "######################"? Just trying to understand the downside as if the downside outweighs the copy and paste method, I would rather have my son get used to copy and pasting for now to ensure no hiccups in receiving customer emails.

[RodG]

It may well be "normal behaviour" but it certainly isn't *correct * behaviour. The reply-to field was created to avoid the very problem that you are experiencing.

What you are experiencing is a function of the software you are using to read/reply to emails. It has nothing to do with the software doing the sending (zencart).
The zencart setting for the known domain has 2 purposes (related) .
1) Some (most?) servers require emails only be sent from a known domain, and
2) It helps eliminate a certain class of spam.

BTW, my original question was rhetorical. It was supposed to make you think server vs client. :-)
Cheers
Rod

[DrByte]

how would I know if the "known domain" setting can be set to "False"?

Simple: try it.
If it solves your problem, then, well, it solves your problem.
Just be sure that your testing is with multiple kinds of recipients, ie: yahoo and hotmail and private services too.

The "must send as known domain" was specifically added because some servers require it, and will send no mail if they don't recognize the sending address (such as in your case where your server knows nothing of your email address because you're doing email someplace else). Not all email servers enforce that rule, so it's entirely up to you to test whether you need that feature turned on or not.

Alternatively, as you said yourself, since Gmail's own stupid rules are completely replacing the standard RFC rules for email handling by deleting the ReplyTo header for no good reason, then you could trick gmail into working correctly by using a different email address for Store Owner and Send From addresses.

[yaritai]

Simple: try it.
If it solves your problem, then, well, it solves your problem.
Just be sure that your testing is with multiple kinds of recipients, ie: yahoo and hotmail and private services too.

The "must send as known domain" was specifically added because some servers require it, and will send no mail if they don't recognize the sending address (such as in your case where your server knows nothing of your email address because you're doing email someplace else). Not all email servers enforce that rule, so it's entirely up to you to test whether you need that feature turned on or not.

Alternatively, as you said yourself, since Gmail's own stupid rules are completely replacing the standard RFC rules for email handling by deleting the ReplyTo header for no good reason, then you could trick gmail into working correctly by using a different email address for Store Owner and Send From addresses.

Got it. For some reason, the forums on google products say its not a bug and it would not be looked at. Your trick is actually what was recommended by a member their. And it does pick up the reply to in this case. The reason they say its not a bug is the way google handles conversations and pre-populates the reply to field. Going to go this route for now and see how it holds up.