Can I use Softaculous solely to upgrade?

[idtags]

Happy New Year to everybody!!!

My 1.5.1 Zen Cart is using custom templates.
I was staying away from modifying core files of Zen Cart knowing that they may be overwritten by new Releases.
Can I use Softaculous solely to update to 1.5.4?

I am guessing that many hours were invested in writing Softaculous Update Script.
There should be some use of it. Shouldn't?

Otherwise what is it developed for?

Thank you for your respond in advace.

[DrByte]

If you're 100% certain that it doesn't wipe out ANY of your customizations, then sure. But I'm 95% certain it WILL wipe out customizations you've made to your site, so unless you've made backups, and also done all the "merge work" to identify all the things you'll need to re-do after Softaculous replaces all your hard work, then you'll probably be unhappy.

[lhungil]

The Zen Cart team has spent many hours on the "zc_install" process included with Zen Cart (when downloaded from this site). The documentation included with the Zen Cart download and the "zc_install" process are the official "upgrade" process.

Softalicious and other "repackages" of Zen Cart often contain custom coding / changes not supported by the Zen Cart team. Those changes made by 3rd parties have in the past sometimes caused negative short term and long term issues for store owners.

Not saying for a site with minimal customization the 3rd party upgrade script will not work... But getting help after using one (if issues are encountered) may be more difficult unless you know exactly how (after the 3rd party upgrade) your files and database differ from the official distribution and database upgrade process.

While the official process may seem daunting, I would strongly recommend walking through the process. Doing an upgrade from Zen Cart >= 1.5.1 to 1.5.4 is not too bad... Using the official process is in my experience simpler and less prone to "after upgrade" issues compared to automated 3rd party upgrade scripts. Especially on heavily customized sites (themes, plugins, overrides, and other modifications).

[mc12345678]

Let me also chime in with something... A little over three years ago, someone said to me, hey we should setup a site to make collections for donations. I've heard of this other group that used some ecommerce software called Zen Cart or something...

Look at our host site, ahh looky there, they will install it for us... Great, must be a lot to this installation for someone to have such a self install process... Tada, ZC 1.3.9h, up and running, here's your password and username, have a nice day.... Hmm, want/need to change this or that.... How does one figure it out? Sheesh, a lot to this system, wonder why this does this and that does that... A few searches later, huh, a whole group of people that actually offer assistance... Not just some central only this person is allowed to respond group, but like anyone that is willing to signin to the site...

Search for a few thing to address: the basics, how to change the content of the main page, how to move things around. See someone have a problem, questions get asked about how it was installed. Low and behold, a one-click. They install from a fresh copy, and problem goes away... I start to think, wonder what's different... Next thing I know, 1.5.0 is out the door. Better security, actually, first to be have security testing passed... Guess what, we deal with people and the public, call it jumping on the band wagon if you wish, but we need to look out for the others as they are the ones that can say we shouldn't be doing business anymore... Tough choice, start from scratch or upgrade the database... Mix of both... Okay, so that's about the early part of 2012.... If I had known then even half of what I know now about ZC, I would have never pressed that button to do the install... It is far easier than it seems... Yes, the instructions are somewhat vague, but they work... They stand the test of time... The minute details are contained in other places, like the specific files changed, added, or removed are covered in the notes for an upgrade set... They aren't in the general directions for performing an upgrade of some sort, they don't need to be there, they just get in the way...

I can't say I know a true purpose for asking the question about using a process that was not developed by the team that already has a process developed and is functional... I can think of so many comparisons to this type of question like going to one soda beverage maker and asking if it's okay to drink another... After all they are both dark, have sugar (or not), are flavored, cold, etc... Or two car manufacturers, or two computer companies, etc... What about the clothing apparel sales person in a high end store as compared to the person on the street corner with the "same" goods in the trunk of the vehicle??? Must be great, right? Saving something... Wouldn't have it if it wasn't full and legit, right? See, I'm starting to make potentially incorrect connections, but the point is, if one knows the right thing to do, why choose to do something different?

To answer at least one of the previously asked questions, what's different about these one step installs? I've seen some that fortunately are familiar with standard ZC operation report that once they logged into their admin, they basically were never logged out... They could close their browser, come back to their computer, go to their admin directory and be in their admin panel without providing any credentials... Sound like a site you want to visit or shop at??? What else was bypassed? Perhaps what information is routinely transmitted out?

There's a lot of individuals trying to provide secure means of operating a sales business every day... Don't see why not to at least go down their path of usage as much as is reasonable and stays on that same path...

[frank18]

I would be 99.9% certain that the use of Softaculous (or any other auto installer) will kill your customizations.

These auto installers have been discussed umpteen times on this forum - the general advice is don't use them, especially for upgrading

[idtags]

I would be 99.9% certain that the use of Softaculous (or any other auto installer) will kill your customizations.

These auto installers have been discussed umpteen times on this forum - the general advice is don't use them, especially for upgrading

I appreciate everybody comments, about the topic. I feel that Softaculous script is done by different group of people than Zen Cart.

I will take a liberty to ask if there are any future plans to make automatic upgrades like Microsoft Widows, MacAfee or many others packages?

Or, there are some fundamental roadblocks preventing configuration of Zen Cart that can be updated automatically.


Anyway product is good, many people use it with success and thank for everybody who makes it possible.

[mc12345678]

I appreciate everybody comments, about the topic. I feel that Softaculous script is done by different group of people than Zen Cart.

I will take a liberty to ask if there are any future plans to make automatic upgrades like Microsoft Widows, MacAfee or many others packages?

Or, there are some fundamental roadblocks preventing configuration of Zen Cart that can be updated automatically.


Anyway product is good, many people use it with success and thank for everybody who makes it possible.

If a store is put together that does not specifically modify any of the files provided in the installation package, then effectively the next upgrade can be installed atop it. Not much more "automatic" than that. As regards to the companies/software referenced, which of those allow you to modify any and every aspect of the software? I believe the answer is none... Therefore, consider the "automated" process that might be involved with such an upgrade... Read each line, almost effectively use the old and new software in parallel to evaluate what data differences exist looking at input and output to validate functionality and results, code differences, etc... I doubt I have even considered all of the "variables" that would be involved in such an endeavor... Currently people are. Farbetter at this than machines... Knowledge of what has been installed, good programming "habits" (comments), some understanding of the overall expected functionality and comparing the old code with the new, are all things that make the upgrade process relatively feasible...

If anything, the latest version of ZC (1.5.4) has made the upgrade process a little better in the management of the configure.php files. I haven't played with 1.5.4 significantly (planning on today), but one of the notes I read about it was that basically if a certain process is followed the configure.php in the live store won't get overwritten by the one in the development store. Read the instructions and notes about the version before taking my word for it on that one, but that aspect of "upgrading" is probably one of the biggest issues discussed on this site: just upgraded/moved, and now FILL_IN_THE_BLANK is (or is not) happening... Check the configure.php file, ohh THIS is incorrect....

So, automated? Yeah is/can be, but who's smarter? You or the machine?

Just my two cents worth.

[DrByte]

Yes, Softaculous is written by completely different people, and has no association with Zen Cart.

I will take a liberty to ask if there are any future plans to make automatic upgrades

Yes, but website software is different from "Microsoft Widows, MacAfee or many others packages", especially when YOU have the source code and WE can't guess what things YOU changed in your files, so finding a way to make YOUR changes survive an upgrade is a challenge.

Or, there are some fundamental roadblocks preventing configuration of Zen Cart that can be updated automatically.

It has nothing to do with "configuration". It has a lot to do with architecture. The whole reason that v2 got delayed for a long time was the goal of finding a way to make things painlessly upgradable. The developers are still working on it, and there is great potential in the solutions currently being developed.
In the meantime the current upgrade process already preserves all your data and is relatively straightforward once you actually take the time to go through it a few times. The community remains available to help one another in the process.

Thanks for voicing your questions. We continue to work on improvements to the software in numerous areas, to make everybody's life easier.