I hear you and appreciate your comments, but I am no genius. I am stumbling through this like many others. I do not understand why I can't take my data from my customer section, product section and anywhere else I have inputted data and insert or update a data base. I did not reprogram any files, nor do I wish to because you guys are the experts and have done a superb job in making this catalog program. I do not think that you are telling me I have to put a whole new catalog up because that is what I did in the first place. I put ver 1.3 in a new folder, then upgraded it according to zc_install procedures. If I do that I would think I would just get the same results. I have seen other threads with a similar problem and no answer so thats why I put up different ones. I ran into snags and was working until I got an answer and some of the problems I solved. I am not looking to put the structure or anything in that section in the new data base, juust the customers, orders and products with their attributes. Can I, or can I not take data already inputed in another data base and insert it into a clean data base. I do not want to belabor this for you, but If I have a new version with the "can't delete bug and its not working, I wanted to try to avoid starting from scratch.