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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Paypal Express Checkout - Shipping Address Issue

    ZenCart 1.3.9h
    PayPal website payments pro
    Paypal Express Checkout:
    Express Checkout: Require Confirmed Address
    No

    Express Checkout: Select Cheapest Shipping Automatically
    No

    Express Checkout: Skip Payment Page
    No

    Express Checkout: Automatic Account Creation
    Yes


    NEED A SOLUTION! Shipping address issue... as described in the posts above.
    Desired outcome: a customer makes a purchase with paypal express and wants to ship to a different address than their PaPal billing address. The store owner receives the purchase information with the billing AND shipping address.

    Not sure, but the times when a separate billing an shipping address does NOT come through appears to be when it is a new customer (one who does not already have an account registerd inthe zencart store).

    In any case - we need a solution. The current shipping address problem is frustrating for customers and store owners.

    Maybe the only solution is to remove paypal Express.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Paypal Express Checkout - Shipping Address Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by vwebworld View Post
    Not sure, but the times when a separate billing an shipping address does NOT come through appears to be when it is a new customer (one who does not already have an account registerd inthe zencart store).
    Then set your store's Express Checkout Shortcut Button setting to Off. That will require all customers to create an account on your store before they can get into checkout, thus eliminating the symptom you just stated.
    .

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  3. #23
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    Default Re: Paypal Express Checkout - Shipping Address Issue

    Thanks... when I do that (set button to off) this message still appears when the customer clicks on "go to checkout":
    "Have a PayPal account? Want to pay quickly with a credit card? Use the PayPal button below to use the Express Checkout option."

    But... there is no paypal button.

    ~Roland

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Paypal Express Checkout - Shipping Address Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by vwebworld View Post
    Thanks... when I do that (set button to off) this message still appears when the customer clicks on "go to checkout":
    "Have a PayPal account? Want to pay quickly with a credit card? Use the PayPal button below to use the Express Checkout option."

    But... there is no paypal button.
    Ya, that was tidied up in v1.5.0

    You can edit your templates and language files to remove that text until you upgrade.
    .

    Zen Cart - putting the dream of business ownership within reach of anyone!
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    Remember: Any code suggestions you see here are merely suggestions. You assume full responsibility for your use of any such suggestions, including any impact ANY alterations you make to your site may have on your PCI compliance.
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  5. #25
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    Default Re: Paypal Express Checkout - Shipping Address Issue

    Dr Byte -

    Have there been any developments with regard to the PayPal Delivery/Shipping address issue?

    We are on the point of abandoning ZenCart as customers cannot have a billing address that's different to their delivery address.

    Over the years of talking to PayPalI have gained the impression that if anything is going to change, it has to be ZenCart and not PayPal.

    We need a modification to the module. Or we have to go.

    Version here is 1.3.9f and would have upped to 1.5.1 but unless the PayPal glitched is fixed, better to use a different cart.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Paypal Express Checkout - Shipping Address Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Belangers View Post
    there is no need for the shipping address to be sent to PayPal. They need the billing address to compare to the credit card to see if the user is the authentic user of the card.. Period! How the hell would they be able to accept a credit card if the billing address was trying to be matched to the shipping address. It would always be declined. It doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to figure that out. ... I think it would be too mind boggling to be able to add something to just allow only the billing address to go to Paypal. PayPal simply doesn't need the shipping address.
    Okay, Mr Belanger, if "PayPal simply doesn't need the shipping address", then please explain exactly WHY PayPal THEMSELVES allow ONLY for a SHIPPING address to be submitted, and NEVER a BILLING address. You can read it all in their API specs.

    Thus far even PayPal hasn't been able to answer that question for me.

    But if you can, then I'm all ears.
    .

    Zen Cart - putting the dream of business ownership within reach of anyone!
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    Remember: Any code suggestions you see here are merely suggestions. You assume full responsibility for your use of any such suggestions, including any impact ANY alterations you make to your site may have on your PCI compliance.
    Furthermore, any advice you see here about PCI matters is merely an opinion, and should not be relied upon as "official". Official PCI information should be obtained from the PCI Security Council directly or from one of their authorized Assessors.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Paypal Express Checkout - Shipping Address Issue

    To those of you who have chimed in saying you want it to work differently, please answer the following questions ...

    While Mr Belanger is flamboyantly adamant that zen cart is solely at fault, his perspective is very specific and doesn't take into consideration some of PayPal's technical limitations.

    So, putting his rants aside, perhaps YOU can explain EXACTLY what YOU want to have happen for YOUR customers. And be very specific about what you want to have happen to BOTH shipping AND billing addresses in EACH OF the following cases:

    1. the shopper DOES NOT YET HAVE an account on your store and chooses to commence Checkout via Shortcut Button:
    Remember: they can choose ONE address from all the addresses in their PayPal account.
    i) since PayPal only passes back one address, which they call "the Shipping address", should that be used as the billing address in your order?
    ii) and what if they then change the shipping address in your store before confirming final payment?
    iii) and, subsequent to ii) what should your store do if PayPal rejects that changed address for ANY reason (such as it fails their validation checks, or falls outside of allowed countries, fails the "requires confirmed address check" in the next point below, etc)?
    iv) and what should be done if the storeowner has opted to pass the setting to PayPal that requires a confirmed address during checkout?
    - - a) what happens if the customer chooses an unconfirmed address?
    - - b) what happens if the customer WANTS to ship to some other place that they can't confirm? Remember, this is a setting that applies to your entire store, not just to one individual customer

    2. the shopper DOES have an account on your store but has NOT logged in and chooses to commence Checkout via Shortcut Button:
    Remember: they can choose ONE address from all the addresses in their PayPal account.
    i) what gets used for the billing address in your order? is it their PayPal address? or their primary address already in your store as it would be if they were to log in first?
    ii) and what to use for the shipping address in your order?
    iii) and what if they then change the shipping address in your store before confirming final payment?
    iv) and, subsequent to iii) what should your store do if PayPal rejects that changed address for ANY reason (such as it fails their validation checks, or falls outside of allowed countries, fails the "requires confirmed address check" in the next point below, etc)?
    v) and what should be done if the storeowner has opted to pass the setting to PayPal that requires a confirmed address during checkout?
    - - a) what happens if the customer chooses an unconfirmed address?
    - - b) what happens if the customer WANTS to ship to some other place that they can't confirm? Remember, this is a setting that applies to your entire store, not just to one individual customer

    3) the shopper DOES have an account on your store and IS logged into your store before going through checkout (either via the Shortcut button or by the radio-button on the checkout-payment screen)
    Note: Only one address can be submitted to PayPal, and PayPal calls that the "shipping" address.
    i) Which address from your store should be submitted to PayPal?
    ii) What should be done in your store if the customer overrides that address at PayPal?
    iii) What should be done then in your store if the customer decides that they want to use a different address and changes it in your store before final submission for payment?
    iv) and, subsequent to iii) what should your store do if PayPal rejects that changed address for ANY reason (such as it fails their validation checks, or falls outside of allowed countries, fails the "requires confirmed address check" in the next point below, etc)?
    v) and what should be done if the storeowner has opted to pass the setting to PayPal that requires a confirmed address during checkout?
    - - a) what happens if the customer chooses an unconfirmed address?
    - - b) what happens if the customer WANTS to ship to some other place that they can't confirm? Remember, this is a setting that applies to your entire store, not just to one individual customer

    4. Customer does NOT have a PayPal account yet, or has never accessed the PayPal site before and therefore has no PayPal cookie in their browser, so PayPal thinks they're "new" and wants to encourage them to create an account.
    In this case, REMEMBER that PayPal ONLY accepts ONE address during this submission, and PAYPAL calls that the "SHIPPING" address ... despite the fact that on the "I don't have a PayPal account yet" screen PayPal uses that "shipping" address as the "suggested" "billing" address and pre-populates all those address fields with the SHIPPING address.
    In the case of a customer who has no account on your store or has not logged into their store account, this is moot.
    But if the customer DOES have an account on your store, is it correct for Zen Cart to submit your customer's "shipping" address to PayPal and just let PayPal use that as the "billing" address? Because that's what happens now. Nevertheless, I get complaints all the time from merchants saying they think PayPal should NOT use the submitted "shipping" address for the default "billing" address, and yet PayPal makes no provision for submitting a SEPARATE address. If half the merchants in the world think it should be one way, and half think it should be the other way, and yet PayPal says it should be only ONE way, what should Zen Cart do?

    5. Of all your answers to all these questions, which specific ones are today NOT working as you believe they ought to? Please ensure there is enough detail in your reply to explain why it is a problem and what the universal solution is for it.


    Your opinions are welcome. Please be sure to answer from the perspective of a solution that will work for ALL merchants and ALL customers, not just for one store alone.
    .

    Zen Cart - putting the dream of business ownership within reach of anyone!
    Donate to: DrByte directly or to the Zen Cart team as a whole

    Remember: Any code suggestions you see here are merely suggestions. You assume full responsibility for your use of any such suggestions, including any impact ANY alterations you make to your site may have on your PCI compliance.
    Furthermore, any advice you see here about PCI matters is merely an opinion, and should not be relied upon as "official". Official PCI information should be obtained from the PCI Security Council directly or from one of their authorized Assessors.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Paypal Express Checkout - Shipping Address Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Belangers View Post
    I have been trying to resolve this issue for months, and just found out about the problem, and why my customers have not been able to make a purchase since April.
    I'm curious. What changed last April that has caused this problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by Belangers View Post
    If Dr. Byte thinks that this is how it is supposed to be now for 8 years, and is not offering an answer for somebody like myself that needs this to work, then I will go use OpenCart, or Magento, or something that will work correctly.
    What makes you so sure that these other carts don't have the same, or similar problems?

    Quote Originally Posted by Belangers View Post
    The developers at Zencart, or who write these haven't been losing thousands per month with this issue, we are..
    Really? This has been costing you that much? With that much at stake have you considered hiring a developer to make the code work the way *you* want? If you did this 8months ago your investment in the development would have paid for itself many times by now, but even better, if you then decide to 'donate' the code you had developed back into the ZenCart community, we'd not only all have a 'better solution' but the ZenCart developers would be able to concentrate more of their time towards other enhancements/improvements rather than trying to fix a problem that appears to affect so few users.

    Quote Originally Posted by Belangers View Post
    Now, if you'd like to give us some insight as how to fix this ingenious swap up, please email it to me at m_v_belanger at yahoo dot com.
    LOL. Paraphrased, "My car has broken down, so if one of you motor mechanics out their would like to send me an email I'll give you some insight as to how to fix it".

    Yeah, I can see this is a great method of soliciting help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Belangers View Post
    We have businesses to run, mouths to feed, and bills to pay. All of this pussyfooting around for 8 years without giving up the answer is horse dung.. just give it up.
    This is *your* problem, not ZenCarts, and not the ZenCart development team. If ZenCart doesn't suit your needs, then why on earth are you still using it?

    OK, so what if you do decide to use a different eCommerce system, one more suited to your particular needs, I don't see how this is going to have any kind of negative impact to the ZenCart developers. Refresh my memory, how much did you pay for the software again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Belangers View Post
    PayPal states that it is Zen's error, and it is a really stupid one. I can't wait to call them to say what I have seen here. If I knew this was going to be a problem, I would have never ever used zencart. I have had nothing but really expensive headaches with it, time after time. If I spent all of the money in fixes, updates, and addons in one shot, I could have had the Cadillac of sites.
    Was there a reason why you spent "all of the money in fixes, updates, and addons" (which most of us have never had to do anyway), yet this seemingly all important issue has been left for the ZenCart team to 'fix' on a purely voluntary basis, instead of you sharing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Belangers View Post
    Just give your users the simple code change.
    This is assuming the change *will* be simple. When it comes to coding most people don't have a clue how simple (or complex) any given task is likely to be.

    It reminds me of my old electronics repair days, where based on no knowledge at all, the customers would constantly tell me that it was a 'simple fault' because (insert reason here). Few would realise that even though it only takes 2 seconds to resolder a dry joint to effect a repair, there is no way of knowing in advance how long it would take to *find* the joint that needed resoldering.

    Quote Originally Posted by Belangers View Post
    It is our chance if it violates the policies of PayPal, not yours.
    I vehemently disagree with this. It would be unconscionable for any developer to create code that violates the policy of the servers it is connecting to. This can only lead to a bad outcome for *everyone*.

    Quote Originally Posted by Belangers View Post
    Didn't anybody think when they wrote this stupid module?
    I suspect that the ZenTeam have already put a LOT more thought into it than you have... with the difference being that they need to cater for the greater majority, whilst still adhering to PayPal Policy. Furthermore, I suspect that your thoughts along these lines are limited to just a single customer/checkout scenario, yet if you check DrBytes post#27 you'll note that he has covered several scenarios that haven't even crossed your mind.

    Apologies for the rant, but I can't seem to grasp how people can be so 'demanding' for something they get free, and I really do get a kick out of how 'threats' to move to a different eCommerce system is somehow supposed to make the developers quiver in fear of losing a non paying customer. Threats only work if the other party has something to lose. If you change carts you will be doing the team a favour rather than anything else, because it means you'll no longer be using the forum to post negative comments and other disparaging remarks.

    Just my 2cents worth.

    Cheers
    Rod

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Paypal Express Checkout - Shipping Address Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by MrSensible View Post
    Dr Byte -

    Have there been any developments with regard to the PayPal Delivery/Shipping address issue?
    Hi,
    There are a lot of various discussions going on in this thread, and each has their own bent.

    Can you please explain what specific symptoms *you* are needing a fix for?
    .

    Zen Cart - putting the dream of business ownership within reach of anyone!
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    Remember: Any code suggestions you see here are merely suggestions. You assume full responsibility for your use of any such suggestions, including any impact ANY alterations you make to your site may have on your PCI compliance.
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  10. #30
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    Default Re: Paypal Express Checkout - Shipping Address Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by DrByte View Post
    Okay, Mr Belanger, if "PayPal simply doesn't need the shipping address", then please explain exactly WHY PayPal THEMSELVES allow ONLY for a SHIPPING address to be submitted, and NEVER a BILLING address. You can read it all in their API specs.

    Thus far even PayPal hasn't been able to answer that question for me.

    But if you can, then I'm all ears.
    I appears based on your list of scenarios/questions that there is NO solution, because PayPal only manages one address.

    The way it should work for the customers' sake is they should have the ability to pay AND to enter a shipping address different than their billing address.

    If this can not be done with ZenCart and PayPal Express - then just tell us (ZenCart users) that an we will need to decide how to deal with that situation.

    Thank you, Roland

 

 
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