Auspost module questions

[DrByte]

... forced to put on the moderator hat again.
Let's get back on topic folks. If you've something useful to add to the OP's inquiry, please do so. If not, move on.

[vandiermen]

Australia Post also closed down the server that this was relying on a few months ago. They have since re-enabled this via a URL rewrite and a wrapper script to their new servers. This has been implemented as a temporary work around because in spite of all of their advertising of the impending change (developers had at least 12 months notice) there were/are still a lot of carts using the old system because no one has updated their code.

Unless this module gets an urgent update its days are once again limited.

Thanks for the information. I manage a few zen-carts with this module and its better to know now before they email me saying their shipping calculator stopped working.

.. they have enabled this http://drc.edeliver.com.au via a URL rewrite and a wrapper script to their new servers. This has been implemented as a temporary work around ...
... developers had at least 12 months notice ...

If you read this; can you confirm that you read somewhere the server will be closed. Where did you read this, so I can check for update and posable end date. or does it just look like the days may be numbered ?



This module has always been a bit defectivce but if setup and used corectry works ok (for some stores) really it has never been very good. whereas ozpost gives flawless austraiapost quotes + has so much more (which is flawless 99.99% of the time).

if its just a URL rewrite I may be able to change it. also maybe fix it and make other thing better.

[RodG]

Thanks for the information. I manage a few zen-carts with this module and its better to know now before they email me saying their shipping calculator stopped working.

If you read this; can you confirm that you read somewhere the server will be closed. Where did you read this, so I can check for update and posable end date. or does it just look like the days may be numbered ?

http://www.zen-cart.com/showthread.p...78#post1122078

What I wrote there is about all I know,

Cheers
Rod

[jenpen]

Hmm, disappointed as I am to now have to pay for the module, I will put it to my client - even at my country-town, low-rent abysmal rates it would cost her more for me to spend two hours wrestling table rates or some other "solution" to her shipping costs than a year's subscription to Ozpost.

[p1drobert]

Hmm, disappointed as I am to now have to pay for the module, I will put it to my client - even at my country-town, low-rent abysmal rates it would cost her more for me to spend two hours wrestling table rates or some other "solution" to her shipping costs than a year's subscription to Ozpost.

I'm finding nothing wrong with the so called "obsolete" module. I've been using it successfully with zencart 1.3.9 for quite some time, and have now started using it with zencart 1.5.1 which I just installed for a friend.

I'd like to point out that comments coming from the author of the "PAY FOR" alternative module should be evaluated carefully before taken at face value. I'd also like to know what a Pay to use module is doing in the free add on sections of the zencart site. I'd like to know who added the "Obsolete" declaration to the free module description with the advise to "use the pay to use module instead"

There's something screwy going on here if you ask me.

[jenpen]

The same guy wrote both.
I had both installed on one site briefly before I launched it and got quite different shipping quotes for the one order. The new module's quote was a better indication of the actual cost at the PO. FWIW.

[RodG]

I'm finding nothing wrong with the so called "obsolete" module.

Please review my earlier posts in regards to this, in particular, take note of the links I've supplied to the Australia Post website that details why people had serious issues with this eaelier this year, as well as the *temporary* measures that Australia Post have taken to correct the problems.

It is only a matter of time before the DRC servers are completely decommisioned and the old module will once again cease to function.

I'd like to point out that comments coming from the author of the "PAY FOR" alternative module should be evaluated carefully before taken at face value.

I should point out that I am the author of BOTH modules. One of them is actively supported, the other is on borrowed time. It doesn't bother me if people wish to use my old code or the new code. I simply state what I know and what I read from following the Australia Post developers support groups.

I'd also like to know what a Pay to use module is doing in the free add on sections of the zencart site.

Because the current ozpost module, like my original austpost module are both 100% free to download, use and modify by anyone that wants it. Both modules are released under the same GPL licence.

You are confusing the client modules and the servers. The ozpost servers are subscription based (without this I could never keep them running and updated). I survive on a disability pension.

Can't see the difference? No?
Try this. Do you use the PayPal modules, or the any of the online payment modules?
Do PayPal and/or the payment processors charge you to use their services? (yes).

On this basis, why are the paypal on payment modules avialaible in the free downloads section of the zencart site? Clearly these modules ALSO connect to PAID services, but I don't see you (or anyone else) complaining about that.
How is the ozpost module any different?

I'd like to know who added the "Obsolete" declaration to the free module description with the advise to "use the pay to use module instead"

This was added by one of the zencart admin's many months ago when Australia Post carried out their plans to decommision the DRC servers which caused the module to fail to work at all. It was literally rendered useless for approx 2-3 weeks until Australia Post realised that most of the module authors (for almost all shopping cart systems) had failed to heed their announcements that this was going to happen. They then put in place a stop-gap measure that would accept the requests to the DRC servers, reformat them and pass them over to their new API. They made it *very clear* that this is not a permanent solution, and that the module developers *must* update to use the new API's because sooner or later the DRC server will be taken offline permanently. This information can be easily verified by following the links that I provided many months ago.

There's something screwy going on here if you ask me.

The only thing I find screwy is why you apparently have such an issue with the ozpost system/network. No one is forcing anyone to use it. It doesn't/shouldn't make any difference to you who uses it, so what are you hoping to gain by urging people to use a module that has no support? I can only assume you have some sort of personal issue with me?

Oh, and as for the 'nothing wrong' with the obsolete module.. Well, other than the issues of it using an obsolete server with a limited lifespan, I can only assume that your stores don't do many sales to the USA, because as from November 2011 until October 2012 the quotes from this server were not applying the USA Security surcharge.. as such all quotes for items over 1kg have been underquoted by a massive $9.00 each. Many people found it was actually cheaper to pay the ozpost subscriptions than to carry these losses.

Furthermore, if I recall correctly, quotes for satchels and letters are/were hard coded into the older module, which means that users need to continually update the code everytime Australia Post update their rates. How many of you are aware that there have been two such updates in the last two months alone (The latest being just last week, November 5th). I'll wager that most people using the old module haven't made these changes, and are now under quoting the satchels by as much as $2.00 per item.

Are you (and others) also aware that the 'regular prepaid satchels' no longer exist? They have been replaced with the Parcel Post Plus satchels.. a slightly higher price... They added an additional 5kg satchel to this range at the same time.

Platinum parcels/satchels didn't exist when the old code was written. These are now fully supported by the new module, as are the eBay boxes and satchels (these aren't restricted to ebay sales, but provide a cheaper alternative to the regular boxes/satchels)

Insurance fees. These were also hard coded in the old module. I suspect that most people using the old module are still quoting this at $1.10 per $100.
Current rates are $1.50 per $100 .... This difference can soon add up to cause significant losses.

In short, sure, people can still use the old module with some degree of success, at least for the time being, but is it really *worth* it? This 'free' module can actually end up costing some merchants more in losses than what they'd pay to access the subscription servers.

Am I making a killing out of this? No. The current subscriptions still don't even come close to covering the costs of running and maintaining the servers, and the reason for this is really very simple. The Australian market is *small*. You are not one in million, you are not even one in a 1000. In fact at any given time there are no more than 350-400 active ZenCart stores in operation in Australia. Only 1 in 10 support the ozpost system. If I were interested in coding for money I could do a whole lot better than trying to give fellow Australians a good, reliable and accurate quotation system.

It kinda peeves me when people such as yourself ignore these facts and attempt to detract from what I am attempting to achieve with the system. It really doesn't do anyone any good whatsoever. What is your motivation? Who are you trying to help?

Regards,
Rod

http://ozpost.net.au/mission-statement/

[p1drobert]

Dear RodG

It is inappropriate for you to declare the AUSTpost module obsolete and to direct people to use the OZPOST module instead, without first declaring that you have a vested interest in the OZPOST module.
People seeing the module declared "obsolete" are given the impression that the module does not work, when clearly it currently does.

Did you place the "obsolete" comment on the AUSTPOST module? If so why did you not declare that you gained financially from people abandoning the AUSTPOST module in favor of your OZPOST module. By gaining financially your opinion can be seen as biased and based on self interest.

You are also not the finally author of the Austpost module. When the Austpost module stopped working it was fixed by Avant Marketing (avantmarketing.com.au) July 2010. It seems they have the right to declare the module "obsolete" not you. They received no recompense for their efforts but offered the module as free to use so it belongs in the free addon category.

I ship parcels all over the world, including USA. The $9 extra charge appears to be added on without any intervention from me. I can only repeat that the module is working perfectly well for me and allowing me to process orders satisfactory. In addition its Free to use as the creators of zencart had intended.

Your desire to cash in makes poor justification for your actions. Comparing the OZPOST module to the PAYPAL module is not valid as the authors of the module do not gain financially from it even if PAYPAL does. The Ozpost module however financially benefits you the author which is a direct contradiction of the spirit of open source, and that of zencart.
Had you truly had the interests of your common man in mind when you created OZpost you would have written the module so that it directly contacts the free to use servers at Australia Post rather than your own server.

I call upon you to remove your ozpost module from the Free addons category of the zencart site as it is inappropriate for it to be placed there. It is a pay to use module as it does not function without paying a service fee. It is therefore not in keeping with the spirit of zencart.

I urge all readers of this post to also call upon the administrators of the zencart web site to remove ozpost from the free Addon sections as it is clearly not a free to use module.

I expect in time the AUSTPOST module will need to be updated or made obsolete but when that time comes I hope that it is replaced with a Free to Use module which benefits all without call for recompense.

[jenpen]

First you say "the module ... clearly it currently does [work]."

Then you say "When the Austpost module stopped working"

Make up your mind! Rod, did you cut this guy off in traffic or something?

[RodG]

p1drobert.

I'd still like to know exactly what your problem is! I can only assume that you are one of those people that have taken any one of my factoids as a personal insult?

Dear RodG
It is inappropriate for you to declare the AUSTpost module obsolete and to direct people to use the OZPOST module instead,

My previous response stands:
"This was added by one of the zencart admin's many months ago when Australia Post carried out their plans to decommision the DRC servers which caused the module to fail to work at all."

*I* had *nothing* to do with that.

People seeing the module declared "obsolete" are given the impression that the module does not work,

My previous response stands:
"It was literally rendered useless for approx 2-3 weeks until Australia Post realised that most of the module authors (for almost all shopping cart systems) had failed to heed their announcements that this was going to happen".

when clearly it currently does.

My previous response stands:
"They then put in place a stop-gap measure that would accept the requests to the DRC servers, reformat them and pass them over to their new API. They made it *very clear* that this is not a permanent solution, and that the module developers *must* update to use the new API's because sooner or later the DRC server will be taken offline permanently. This information can be easily verified by following the links that I provided many months ago."

Did you place the "obsolete" comment on the AUSTPOST module?

No.

If so why did you not declare that you gained financially from people abandoning the AUSTPOST module in favor of your OZPOST module. By gaining financially your opinion can be seen as biased and based on self interest.

My previous response stands:
"The current subscriptions still don't even come close to covering the costs of running and maintaining the servers".

Exactly HOW am I gaining financially when it is actually *costing* me $$$ to keep the system going?

READ CAREFULLY: In 2007 ZenCart users didn't have a working/supported Austpost shipping module at all. I created and supported the original code 100% free of charge for a little over three years. By 2010 I'd gotten sick of this thankless task and the 'demands' from some users that saw the support as a 'right' rather than a privilege. I was also subject to abuse at times because the module failed to work, often for days at a time because the Australia Post servers were constantly crashing. Somehow, this was seen as *my* fault, and believe it or not, I even had a couple of people *demand* I compensate them for a loss of sales.

It was after receiving one such email that I threw in the towel and decided I didn't need that kind of shot, and announced I'd no longer be supporting the module. Heck, why should I? I don't mind a bit of abuse now and then, but I wasn't getting anything in return. Not even a single dollar as a voluntary donation.

After this announcement a few users contacted me and eventually persuaded me to reconsider my decision and offered a little financial support (their offers is actually what help determine the subscription fees). The 'ozpost' network was born. Still costing me more to maintain than I was getting in return I gave it three years for it to meet its own costs. It is now in its 3rd year and it still isn't meeting that target, and this is in spite of creating the modules for at least 5 other shopping cart systems. Regular subscribers may have already noticed that the subscription periods offered have been slowly reducing. Initially we offered 3 years subscripts (our target period to cover costs), this has been reduced to 2years, then 18months, and now 12months. This is giving me an 'out' in that at any point in time now I can pull the plug on the system and be completely free of any commitments of further support within 12 months. Sad to say, but unless things change for the better between now and July 2013 this is *exactly* what is going to happen. *I* will be better off for it both financially and emotionally.

Meanwhile I'm still creating modules for even more shopping cart systems in the hopes that this won't occur. In other words, there's simply not enough active ZenCart users alone to keep the system going.

Tell me again how I'm financially gaining from this.

You are also not the finally author of the Austpost module. When the Austpost module stopped working it was fixed by Avant Marketing (avantmarketing.com.au) July 2010.

This is true. Now consider yourself lucky that I've released the client modules as GPL, because if I'd kept the copyright on the code (as I do with the server code) I could easily have the ZenCart admins pull this 'fixed' version from the downloads section as it would be in clear violation of my copyright.

The fact is, I don't/didn't have any objections whatsoever with avant making these fixes and uploading the code for others to use (shame that they couldn't spell my name right though). In spite of my feelings towards certain zencart/austpost users at the time I actually felt bad that my changes were going to leave people with no free AustPost option.

Unbeknownst to Avant Marketing, *IF* they had delayed this 'fix' by just a few days (or even asked me about future plans/options) I would have told them I already had updated code in the wings, about to be uploaded to the zencart downloads section. The code was to allow subscription-free access to the same data that was provided by the Australia Post servers, with subscribers having full access to all the methods and carriers supported.

I'm actually kinda thankful that Avant beat me to the punch with this one, because it helped alleviate the guilt feeling I had for leaving Zenners in the lurch. I was actually punishing the bulk of Zenners for the inconsiderate behaviour of a few. It also saved me from making the same mistake I made the first time around.

It seems they have the right to declare the module "obsolete" not you.

They do. I didn't.

They received no recompense for their efforts but offered the module as free to use so it belongs in the free addon category.

Indeed it does.

It's a pity that they did this though, because as has become evident, they didn't really do anyone any favours at all, just as you aren't helping anyone with your unfounded claims.

. I can only repeat that the module is working perfectly well for me and allowing me to process orders satisfactory.

Then by all means, carry on using it. Others apparently aren't as lucky as you..

I had both installed on one site briefly before I launched it and got quite different shipping quotes for the one order. The new module's quote was a better indication of the actual cost at the PO. FWIW.

I can't explain this discrepency. Can you?

In addition its Free to use as the creators of zencart had intended.

The creators of ZenCart have had no intentions for OzPost or any other module. Sure they don't allow commercial modules in their downloads section, but that doesn't mean they don't approve of commercial support for their product.

Besides, as I have stated time and time again. The ozpost module is NOT COMMERCIAL. It is a FREE ADD-ON, released under the GPL licence. If it were anything else it WOULD NOT BE IN THE FREE DOWNLOADS.

Do you think I have some kind of special pull over the ZenCart developers? Do you think they give me (or ozpost) some kind of preferential treatment?

Apparently you do, and I hope *they* find this insinuation as offensive as I do.

Call this a 'suck up' if you like, but I've never found the ZenCart team to be anything other than fair to all users. I've been reprimanded (on more than one occasion) for overstepping the mark, and not once have I seen any of them give preferential treatment to anyone.

Your desire to cash in makes poor justification for your actions.

I have no desire to 'cash in' on anything. Again, I find this insinuation offensive.

My actions are justified by the need to cover my costs, nothing more, nothing less. Give me 10 times the number of subscribers and the subcription fees will be reduced by the same factor of 10. This is simple arithmetic. (This assumes current subs already cover costs).

Do you feel it is fair that I should cover all the expenses myself? Sure, if I were a rich man, and my time meant nothing I'd be more than happy to go back to the days of 2007-2010 (well, other than the insults/demands).

Comparing the OZPOST module to the PAYPAL module is not valid as the authors of the module do not gain financially from it even if PAYPAL does.

So, on this basis, if for some reason Avant Marketing (or someone else, perhaps even you) decides they can improve on the ozpost client code (which can still use a lot of improvement that I've not found the time to do) and have it connect to the ozpost subscription servers for the actual quotes (keeping in mind there are two parts to a shipping module, the creation of the 'parcel' and the quotes themselves. The quotes are the *easy* part), are you seriously suggesting that even though Avant Marketing (or yourself) wouldn't make a cent out of this client module, that it shouldn't be allowed in the free downloads?

It seems to me that is exactly what you are saying!

Where is the incentive for anyone to create any module that connects to any paid kind of service if they can't make it readily available to anyone that wants it?

I *can* appreciate where you are coming from in that I've developed both the client and the server software and that this can easily be considered as self-promoting, but trust me on this one, if I can get someone else to create the client code rather than having to do it myself it is something I will actively encourage and help. MY interest is in the server side of things, and this itself is almost a fulltime task. Heck, I've even made open offers to give developers of client modules a 'kick back' on the subscription fees that are derived from such client code.

The Ozpost module however financially benefits you the author

I really wish this were true. I really do.

which is a direct contradiction of the spirit of open source, and that of zencart.

LOL.... Now theres an oxymoron. The ozpost client code is released under the GPL (open source), how can open source code be a direct contradition of the spitit of open souce? What kind of flawed logic is this?

Had you truly had the interests of your common man in mind when you created OZpost you would have written the module so that it directly contacts the free to use servers at Australia Post rather than your own server.

And in doing so, I'd be creating a system that would be near impossible to maintain. You simply aren't seeing the 'big picture'. You are thinking 'zencart only'. Ozpost is so much more than that. It is a system designed not only for zencart users, but for several other eCommerce systems that are popular in Australia, all of which have pretty much the same issues as ZenCart does in regards to shipping quotes. I am *attempting* to create something that fills this gap.

Our mission statement sums it up quite nicely.
http://ozpost.net.au/mission-statement/

I call upon you to remove your ozpost module from the Free addons category of the zencart site as it is inappropriate for it to be placed there. It is a pay to use module as it does not function without paying a service fee. It is therefore not in keeping with the spirit of zencart.

I call on you to stop thinking small and look at the bigger picture.

Question for you. You run a business correct? You can claim your business expenses as a tax dedduction, correct?
Ozpost subscriptions are a legitimate business expense. You can claim the *entire* subscription fee as a business expense, effectively costing you nothing. Zero, zilch. Why don't you do so?

The ONLY reason I can think of is that you really have no interest in whether there is a fee or not, all you are *really* interested in is, well, I'm not sure, but it clearly isn't to help support what I'm trying to achieve for all Australian online merchants.. Hmm perhaps that's your reason. You think I should only support zenners? Hmm, no, that doesn't make sense... Perhaps you are trying to make it so I support all other carts *except* zencart? No, that doesn't make sense either.

Once again I have to ask, exactly what *IS* your problem? Even if ozpost was making a profit, what is it to you? As hard as I try, I simply do not understand what you are trying to achieve, or who is going to get any benefit from what you are trying to do?

I expect in time the AUSTPOST module will need to be updated or made obsolete but when that time comes I hope that it is replaced with a Free to Use module which benefits all without call for recompense.

I hope you are right. Sadly, history tells a different story. You are being very shortsighted. Never a good thing.

Rgds
Rod