Dilemma: Upgrade from 1.39d to 1.5, or start from scratch? Original is a 1-click inst

[Elarya]

Currently, I am running Version 1.39D. Web link is crochetgarden.com

Background:
I started my business 10 years ago, and installed zen cart while on a cheap hosting plan using one of their one-click installs. When I did this, I had the option of installing it clean, or as a template with examples built in. Being new to this whole world, I chose the latter, and simple changed their entries to mine. Kind of sad when I go to the admin panel and I see music brands and such, (despite my site being a craft site) of things I never change or did not know how to. Over the years I did the upgrades via the panel on the hosting site and just changed the aesthetics back (like banner etc).

Dilemma:
Well I am a bit smarter now (at least I'd like to think so, or maybe it is coffee making me think I think sharper)? Anyway, I am in desperate need to update, since now I see 1.5 is out. I also was having the PayPal check out issues to the POODLE vulnerability but now edited the files needed fixing, but I see these are all fixed in 1.5.

So I have 3 choices:
1. Upgrade from what I have now manually (having never really done the entire process myself) and cross fingers.
2. Start fresh with a new Zen cart - and then just add in the products and the configurations, and then add in the database? This I am unsure of if I can even do. I *think* the only mod I have on there is monthly reports so I can get a tally of my income.
3. Pay someone the 2-3k to do it all for me (but oh how I would love to pay off credit cards with that).

What do you feel is best? Is #2 even a good choice seeing how botched my current code may be from all the one-click installs and upgrades? I am sort of scared of databases. I know someone told me mine is too big to move over, or something like that and I would have to get my host to do it for me (not sure if that makes sense).

What are the good and bad of each (mostly of options 1 and 2), like if I keep the bad. Or are there any other options?

[mc12345678]

Currently, I am running Version 1.39D. Web link is crochetgarden.comBackground:I started my business 10 years ago, and installed zen cart while on a cheap hosting plan using one of their one-click installs. When I did this, I had the option of installing it clean, or as a template with examples built in. Being new to this whole world, I chose the latter, and simple changed their entries to mine. Kind of sad when I go to the admin panel and I see music brands and such, (despite my site being a craft site) of things I never change or did not know how to. Over the years I did the upgrades via the panel on the hosting site and just changed the aesthetics back (like banner etc).Dilemma:Well I am a bit smarter now (at least I'd like to think so, or maybe it is coffee making me think I think sharper)? Anyway, I am in desperate need to update, since now I see 1.5 is out. I also was having the PayPal check out issues to the POODLE vulnerability but now edited the files needed fixing, but I see these are all fixed in 1.5.So I have 3 choices:1. Upgrade from what I have now manually (having never really done the entire process myself) and cross fingers.2. Start fresh with a new Zen cart - and then just add in the products and the configurations, and then add in the database? This I am unsure of if I can even do. I *think* the only mod I have on there is monthly reports so I can get a tally of my income.3. Pay someone the 2-3k to do it all for me (but oh how I would love to pay off credit cards with that).What do you feel is best? Is #2 even a good choice seeing how botched my current code may be from all the one-click installs and upgrades? I am sort of scared of databases. I know someone told me mine is too big to move over, or something like that and I would have to get my host to do it for me (not sure if that makes sense).What are the good and bad of each (mostly of options 1 and 2), like if I keep the bad. Or are there any other options?

Here is the most recommended instruction for such an upgrade: http://www.zen-cart.com/entry.php?3-...-upgradingTake a look through and make you're own choice(s), I'd kind of like to know where you got that quote for the upgrade, but really if you follow those instructions, you won't lose anything (site related. :) ) and can keep doing the business you do.

[Elarya]

Thank you, I did come across that- was very helpful and now I know it can be done. I guess I was more or less wondering what people think would be best. There may be pros and cons of each I do not know being such an amateur. For example, are their any ramifications of keeping my current subpar setup from the one-click install, like so much that one person feels it is imperative (in their opinion) that they have an original install from the official zen site. I hope that makes sense. Really wondering what people would do in my situation, and why. Not that one is right over another, but I guess I want to hear people's open thoughts, per se.

Oh and the quotes were not for upgrade, but a couple programmers online with portfolios I likes that will create a zen cart website. I now wonder if I did have one create one for me, if I would be able to update on my own. So much I still do not know :) Does it seem way too much or way too little?

[mc12345678]

So, somewhat firrst things... Zc is open source. That means that well anyone can modify it any way they wish... But... Zc has been designed by the core team (I am not part of) to provide security for purchasing and processing payments... Obtaining the software directly from them, unmodified, ensures that it is installed/used as they intended/have gotten it certified...

So, that should help with the one-click versus from zc site concept...

Then comes modification/operation, as I said it can be modified any way desired. There is code available as a "plugin" on this site. While it is considered acceptable by the team for download and use, there still is a bit of responsibility of the store owner to maintain that security.. There are a number of "designers" that may be willing to create and don't get me wrong there are likely great things that can be done by these individuals... I really shouldn't have asked the question the way I did regarding where from, technically I think we're not to talk about some of that side of business in the forum.

Predominantly though, at least in my opinion most of what you have probably can be kept to an extent... I mean may need to modify how a few things operate depending on your stores needs, but, an upgrade is also a good time to clean house a little. :) if the report module is all that you have installed, then a template update, would be next in line (may want to consider a responsive template for mobile devices)... Anyways, maybe someone else will chime in too.

[Elarya]

Obtaining the software directly from them, unmodified, ensures that it is installed/used as they intended/have gotten it certified...

This is one of the reasons why I am so heavily considering just installing a clean version from this forum. I do not have the expertise to properly evaluate what chickens I have laying eggs (or what dinosaurs for that matter) in my code.

there still is a bit of responsibility of the store owner to maintain that security.. There are a number of "designers" that may be willing to create and don't get me wrong there are likely great things that can be done by these individuals.

So true. I was so paranoid with credit cards that I opted to use quantum gateway and have been happily letting them process all the shennanigans. But on another note, if people do make mods, and some of these programmers do make their own little customs, like for example one I saw said you can have the color and other attributes added when adding to cart (which I love), but how to make sure everything is secure and such? It worries me. I want to have a beautiful lovely easy-to-navigate site, but I am not knowledgeable enough to know when something is a vulnerability. Like a mod from here, I am sure someone will post something.

an upgrade is also a good time to clean house a little. :)

Cleaning that house would be a lot better than having to clean the "real" house.

[mc12345678]

This is one of the reasons why I am so heavily considering just installing a clean version from this forum. I do not have the expertise to properly evaluate what chickens I have laying eggs (or what dinosaurs for that matter) in my code.



So true. I was so paranoid with credit cards that I opted to use quantum gateway and have been happily letting them process all the shennanigans. But on another note, if people do make mods, and some of these programmers do make their own little customs, like for example one I saw said you can have the color and other attributes added when adding to cart (which I love), but how to make sure everything is secure and such? It worries me. I want to have a beautiful lovely easy-to-navigate site, but I am not knowledgeable enough to know when something is a vulnerability. Like a mod from here, I am sure someone will post something.



Cleaning that house would be a lot better than having to clean the "real" house.

Ever hold two pieces of paper up together to see what the differences were? There is software that basically does that... And the "old" version you are using is available to download and compare... Any unique changes that "make sense" can be applied on the new site. The upgrade though discussed in the link basically builds the software side of the site anew, but keeps all of your database entries and data...

So those programs that tend to be supported also receive a lot of feedback about security as there are those that will in a way go through the program(s) almost line for line to ensure all is as they would like to see it...

Generally speaking the attributes and color changes have nothing to do with the site security at least in the newer versions (1.5.4 is available). Believe it or not a large part of the security aspect is dependent on how up-to-date the host is... (Ie version of PHP that is installed).

Anyways, some important tips, and as someone who does installs and upgrades I actually tell those for whom I do work to do this, create a separate area for your "new" store. If you're going to let someone have access to it, be sure to give them access only to that area... Maintain control of the situation, don't allow yourself to get locked out of anything of importance. Ask questions. Be sure you understand what it is that is being done. Or at least know that nothing wrong can happen. :) remember this is your business you're talking about.

Btw, I've seen a woman whose husband had passed where he was the primary site maintainer come onto this forum, and within a week or so she had her site upgraded... There are countless other stories such as that, but as some say, sometimes it pays to pay, sometimes it pays to do yourself... :)

[Elarya]

Ever hold two pieces of paper up together to see what the differences were?

Do you mean that oh what was it, winmerge? Or was it wincompare or something of the like?

There is software that basically does that... And the "old" version you are using is available to download and compare...

I am not sure what version I originally used in the one-click, but I I am sure it was probably doen around 2005 or so. Maybe 2006 or even 2006. But somewhere thereabouts.

Any unique changes that "make sense" can be applied on the new site. The upgrade though discussed in the link basically builds the software side of the site anew, but keeps all of your database entries and data...

I feel silly , as I had to reread this a few times to ensure I understood it properly. I believe unique changes you are referring to what the program would come up to as being different (old file verse new). And the link you refer to the the link you referred me to about the differences between upgrading and vanilla install. I think I may still need to reread this. I guess I can be quite neurotic in this respect :)

So those programs that tend to be supported also receive a lot of feedback about security as there are those that will in a way go through the program(s) almost line for line to ensure all is as they would like to see it...

That is one definite plus of doing the upgrades myself and learning the code and all the zen properly.

Generally speaking the attributes and color changes have nothing to do with the site security at least in the newer versions (1.5.4 is available). Believe it or not a large part of the security aspect is dependent on how up-to-date the host is... (Ie version of PHP that is installed).

Oh I was referring to like say when someone adds something to cart, they can choose color. Or maybe being able to sort through the products by a certain attribute, be it (making this so that it would be something my web site would have interest in) wanting to sort by color, or by yarn weight, or those designs that use cotton or wool, etc. I love this, being able to sort or add to cart by attributes. For example, one day I would love to be able to have customer choose language of pattern, whether it be US terms, UK terms or even Spanish (yes once I conquer learning Spanish- I am silly :)) Or were you referring to something else?

Anyways, some important tips, and as someone who does installs and upgrades I actually tell those for whom I do work to do this, create a separate area for your "new" store. If you're going to let someone have access to it, be sure to give them access only to that area... Maintain control of the situation, don't allow yourself to get locked out of anything of importance.

This is something I am indeed concerned about. A while back I moved from a cheap host (one I chose 10 or 11 yrs ago) and then moved a year or so ago to a VPS. I had to hire someone to help me with the move. Nothing malicious has ever happened, thank goodness, I even bought one of his wife's rice pillows off Etsy for good measure (hah), but he made a username and did some other things I still quite understand. I did eventually change passwords etc so everything is all protected, but you are right, I need to figure out how to give someone access only to one particular area. A new feat.

Ask questions. Be sure you understand what it is that is being done. Or at least know that nothing wrong can happen. :) remember this is your business you're talking about.

Indeed, Took me a while but this business is what got me my first house and recognized in the industry :) Lots of sweat and 100 hour weeks, and still, that is the norm often :) Which also makes me wonder, should I hire someone to do it all? But then, (maybe it is my type-A and control freak nature) to make sure I know it all and understand everything that is going on.

Btw, I've seen a woman whose husband had passed where he was the primary site maintainer come onto this forum, and within a week or so she had her site upgraded... There are countless other stories such as that, but as some say, sometimes it pays to pay, sometimes it pays to do yourself... :)

It definitely does pay to do it yourself. I just am terrified of databases and all that. 10 or 11 years ago I started not knowing even the first thing about code and dove in and learned some html and (wow as I look back) made my first little commerce site.

I hate to ask but his name wasn't Dicky, was it? The man you refer to that passed away? I had a gentleman upgrading my phpBB forum for years, then he poofed! I don't know what happened to him and all links are dead. No answered to email. My forum still stays as it is until I can figure that one out. he was an older man, kinds as could be and loved to code! I am still trying to figure out what happened to him. Was so unlike him to vanish after so many years.

[stevesh]

It depends, I think, on how many products you have. Even as an experienced Zencart hand, I'd be inclined to start over from scratch in your situation, unless I had so many products that re-entering them in the new site would be too difficult, time-wise. I like the idea of 'refreshing' a site from time to time. If nothing else, it tells your visitors that you're engaged with the store on a regular basis.

[lat9]

I agree with stevesh's "start from scratch" for the site's presentation, but there are ways to keep the updated (i.e. Zen Cart v1.5.4 + responsive template) configuration along with your existing customers/orders/products.

There were significant changes to the Zen Cart infrastructure going from v1.3.9d to v1.5.4 (especially in the admin area), so I'd follow DrByte's site-rebuild instructions (http://www.zen-cart.com/entry.php?3-...d-of-upgrading). Otherwise, your store is going to be left with items that were removed (tell_a_friend, admin-HTMLeditor) for good cause in the years since v1.3.9d was released.