Change existing site from sub directory to the root of the web site

[lruskauff]

[QUOTE=RodG;1285437]Hmmmm... there's a bit of a confusion/contradiction going on here.

First up, *exactly* what is the 'script' or 'button' that you are referring to.

I'm assuming it is one of
Subdomains
Addon domains
Parked domains
or Redirects.

</quote>
Sorry, I was answering MC123456789's question. He was comparing my change to how I created a subdomain for my blog and I was stating that I really didn't know how it was done because it was done behind the scenes (I just gave it a directory name and hit the doit button) Are you following me now? I know I'm not great with words but I think MC got it.


<quote>
This is code that performs a redirect. Redirects have their uses, but should be avoided wherever possible.

Yes, MC just pointed it out that they were just redirecting so I am asking my host again if there is another way. No misleading of the host going on, just not knowing all of the correct terminology is my guess.


<quote>Personally, I'd never make such an assumption. One of the biggest headaches and drawbacks of URL rewrites is getting the *order* of the rules correct and this order depends on your specific needs and requirements.
</quote>
Well...

<quote>The best way to get it right is to not use the rewrites or redirects at all, they are only needed in *specific* circumstances, and as far as I can tell, you aren't up to the stage where these 'specific circumstances' would apply. </quote>

Why we just met stranger and already you are judging me. Actually, I believe that I saw you across the hall earlier and was misinterpreted but that's ok, I'm used to it.


<quote>
I'm not going to say Yes, and I'm not going to say No. I will say that they *could*. The fact is looking at the rewrites that you have supplied here NOT ONE OF THEM IS REQUIRED.
</quote>
I will agree with you here, but I actually didn't write them, my cpanel inserted them with the advice of my highly qualified tech support many years ago. And I knew they had to come out but thought maybe you guys would see something that I didn't, so I waited and showed you.

<quote>They are all 'Fixes' for 'problems' that wouldn't exist IF the documentRoot and DNS have been configured correctly in the first place. </quote>
Again, I blindly followed but not anymore. Why do you think I hijacked this thread?


<quote>
You're not even using CEON for what it was designed for in the 1st place. Get rid of it. Simplify, simplify, simplify. Don't rewrite anything that doesn't need rewriting.
</quote>
I am using CEON because everytime I asked or paid for SEO help, the first thing I was told was to get rid of those dynamic URL's. And I tried in the past to install another version of SEO with no luck. So I hired someone from here to install it and they had no luck. I gave up.

Years go by. My store is doing no better so I again pay for SeO help. Again, get rid of the dynamic URLs (and yes, lots of other stuff too). And then I realize my site isn't mobile. Now it is April 2015. I'm only at 5.1, So I looked at my major and minor competitors and saw that non of them used dynamic links. So I decide to update my cart, install a mobile template and then get my dynamic links. Problem is that I have a small budget. The good thing is that I was a programmer 20 years ago before kids and know I can relearn.

So I hire (from here) someone to help load my template and a few of my modules (including CEON URL) while I start studying. And I have spend the last month studying zencart, html, php, lurking on threads to learn all that I can as quickly as I can. And I'm trying to answer questions too, to help other beginners and me at the same time.

I am tired and old but happy to be learning. So seriously, "get rid of them all".

I am building my URLs on key search words in my market hoping to salvage my business. /shop/ only appears on my home page because I didn't figure out how to get rid of it yet. Which is what I am doing here. Learning about options so I can decide the best way to proceed.

Seriously, get rid of them all! : :


lin

[RodG]

Sorry, I was answering MC123456789's question.

It's not unusual or uncommon for one person to follow up on the question (or answers) supplied by another person.

He was comparing my change to how I created a subdomain for my blog and I was stating that I really didn't know how it was done because it was done behind the scenes (I just gave it a directory name and hit the doit button)

Yes, I know that. This isn't a private conversation you are having here, and I can read :-)

Are you following me now?
I know I'm not great with words but I think MC got it.

I never lost you. I was asking for you to expand on your response so that *WE* can help advance the conversation further an quicker.

My question is still relevant if you wish to know the *best* way for you to proceed.

Yes, MC just pointed it out that they were just redirecting so I am asking my host again if there is another way. No misleading of the host going on, just not knowing all of the correct terminology is my guess.

I guess you have more faith in your host than you have in us. Hhhhmppph. Makes me wonder why decided to came here seeking help if you are going to ignore what we are saying to you anyway.

The best way to get it right is to not use the rewrites or redirects at all, they are only needed in *specific* circumstances, and as far as I can tell, you aren't up to the stage where these 'specific circumstances' would apply.

Why we just met stranger and already you are judging me.

How am I judging you? I'm simply stating facts ma'am.

I'm not going to say Yes, and I'm not going to say No. I will say that they *could*. The fact is looking at the rewrites that you have supplied here NOT ONE OF THEM IS REQUIRED.

I will agree with you here, but I actually didn't write them,

I never said or implied that you did. That doesn't change the facts though, they aren't required.

my cpanel inserted them

I'd already gathered that much. That doesn't help answer the question as to which of 4 possible options/methods you used, or was told to use.

with the advice of my highly qualified tech support many years ago.

Although you probably don't know this, but I've been working with, repairing and coding computers for almost 40 years now. I have more formal qualifications that most. I've been running our own networks and servers for almost 30 years, and I even have nationally recognised qualifications to teach virtually all aspects of computing.

Do you still think your host is a better person to give you solid an accurate advice? Even if the host admin does have more experience and qualifications than me, you ain't going to get an educated response. You query will end up going to some nerd straight out of school and following a pre-written script and flowchart. Best you can expect is a generic response rather than a response specific to your situation.

And I knew they had to come out but thought maybe you guys would see something that I didn't, so I waited and showed you.

Yup, you showed us, we saw, we identified what is going on, and now we are *almost* in a position where we can guide you towards the next steps needed.

Again, I blindly followed but not anymore. Why do you think I hijacked this thread?

At first I thought it was because you were seeking help. I now realise that you were simply after opinions so that you can go running back to the host seeking a solution.

There ARE times when your host will be the *only* people that can help with a particular problem. If/when that time comes we will tell you.

I am using CEON because everytime I asked or paid for SEO help, the first thing I was told was to get rid of those dynamic URL's.

In recent years it has been demonstrated time and time again that dynamic URL's do not cause any problems for the SE, and haven't done for almost 2 decades. Even Google themselves state this in some of the documentation they've produced. Yet this myth still exists, and many people are still making a small fortune selling this snake oil.

And I tried in the past to install another version of SEO with no luck.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. URL rewriting doesn't provide any 'SEO' benefits at all. The time when they DID make a different has LONG GONE.

So I hired someone from here to install it and they had no luck. I gave up.

As much as I hate to say this, although this forum is frequented some of the best and most knowledgeable people on the planet, it is *also* frequented by a lot of 'wannabe's.

Years go by. My store is doing no better so I again pay for SeO help.

I hope you realise that the 'SEO experts' aren't there to help you don't you? They exist to help themselves. A bloody good business it is too.
They find a way to 'cheat' Google into giving a site a ranking it doesn't deserve. The Google developers detect the method of 'cheating' and change their algorithms to place everyone back on a level playing field (often with devastating results to the cheaters), so the 'experts' are called in again in an attempt to restore the lost rankings (which wouldn't have occurred if they didn't try to 'cheat' in the first place), and the cycle repears indefinitely, with the only winners being the 'experts' that are essentially creating problems so they can charge to fix them again.

This is a hard treadmill to get off of because to do so you end up doing things you don't want to do (namely, broken links from search queries, a temporary loss of current rankings, etc, etc).

And then I realize my site isn't mobile.

Until very recently (last month or two) mobile friendliness wasn't even a factor in the Google rankings. Even now this change will only affect rankings IF the search performed is *also* on a mobile device. It is also a 'Google only' thing. The other SE's don't factor this in at all.

This doesn't mean that your store shouldn't be mobile friendly (common sense dictates that as more and more people access the web with mobile devices we should make our sites compatible for out own benefit), but it does mean that this lack of rankings of yours has nothing to do with mobile devices, unless of course this drop has only occured in the last month or two, in which case it would be worth further investigationing.

So I looked at my major and minor competitors and saw that non of them used dynamic links.

I'm going to call this as 'BS'. You saw what you wanted to see. That is all.

Problem is that I have a small budget.

Good SEO costs nothing, other than an investment in time in adding content, content, and even more content, and forgetting almost everything your ever seen, read or been told about 'SEO'.

The good thing is that I was a programmer 20 years ago before kids and know I can relearn.

That's good. I like to teach. I also like to dispel myths. Problem is, so few people seem to be willing to learn (they seem to assume I'm trying to attack, belittle, judge or offend them in some way).

So I hire (from here) someone to help load my template and a few of my modules (including CEON URL)

As I said, as well as some real experts, there are also a lot of wannabe's around here. Not that there is much wrong with that, the only way to become an expert is to try (and fail) many times over.

“The master has failed more times than the beginner has even tried” – Stephen McCranie

while I start studying. And I have spend the last month studying zencart, html, php, lurking on threads to learn all that I can as quickly as I can. And I'm trying to answer questions too, to help other beginners and me at the same time.

This hasn't gone unnoticed. Truth is, some of your answers to some of the questions have made me cringe. I say this not to cause offence, and if I've seen you lead anyone too far astray I'd have stepped in to help put things back in track (I don't know if I've done that with you or not. I tend avoid taking note of the person doing the post, and concentrate on the content instead). Basically however, as long as I see no 'harm' done I let the cringe worthy comments slide by without further input. About the only exception to this is if/when I see a person has 'x' amount of knowledge, is *trying* to learn, and I think I can help take them up to the next level. This is pretty much the 'category' I placed you in.

Problem is, I have no way of knowing in advance if my attempts at this is going to be taken in the way I intend them, or if the person on the receiving end is going to take umbrage at my attempts. More often than not it is the latter. I'm used to it.

I am tired and old but happy to be learning.

I'm just old... and yes, still happy to be learning. If I can learn just one new thing a day then the day hasn't been wasted. :-)

So seriously, "get rid of them all".

Yup, seriously.

I am building my URLs on key search words

A total and complete waste of time. The URL's don't play a part in site rankings.

I am building my URLs on key search words in my market

Now here's a question for you. How do *you* know what the 'key search words' are?

You can take a guess I suppose, but those 'guesses' are based on what *you* know and what *your* search query would be when *you* are looking for *your* products. As such, your queries are most likely to be a lot more specific than what your potential customers would use.

There ARE ways that you can determine what your *customers* are entering as search queries and finding your site (Google Webmaster tools being one of them), and it is these that you should be looking at and incorporating more heavily into your site *content*.
IOW, you should build up on what the customers are already seeking rather than trying to build up on what you think they should be seeking.

Sometimes these will go 'hand in hand', but other search queries leading to your site will take you completely by surprise.

I'll give an example. One of the more popular sites that that I deal with http://plussizedclothing.com.au sells, you guessed it, clothing for plus sized women. One would assume that the biggest 'search words' to attract people to the site would by 'plus' or 'plussize'. You'd be wrong. The biggest drawcard (by a long margin) is the word 'size'. This is followed by 'dresses' then 'style' (WTF?). The word 'plus' doesn't even rank in the top 40. Armed with this information the client has reworded a lot of the content so that phrases like 'dresses of all sizes and styles' are spread liberally throughout the site.
Up until about a month ago this site was ranking on page#1 for almost all queries relating to plus sized clothing. Sadly, due to an unrelated change (that I discussed in another thread earlier today) this site has had a significant drop in rankings due to duplicated data in a couple of the metatags. Purely accidental, but I/we are having a heck of a job getting it back to its former position. That's another story though.

BTW, did you happen to notice what I did on the 1st line of the paragraph above? Unlike *many* people around here I didn't obfuscate the URL of the store. I've deliberately and intentionally published it. This is called 'advertising' and 'marketing'. It is *good* for the store. Google is going to find that link and give it that little extra 'boost' because it is a link from another site (it is these links that make the WWW possible to function).

Some people will 'argue' that since the zencart site has nothing to do with 'plus sized clothing' that this link won't carry any 'juice' - And that *would* be the case if didn't retain references that the store is powered by zencart, but this way both the ZenCart AND my clients site both get that little bit of extra 'juice'.

It is these 'little' things that make all the difference to good rankings. This is *real* 'SEO' in action. No snake oil. No Sales people, no 'trickery' to get *artificial* rankings, just lots of links, advertising and promotions on other sites, and above all else Content, content, and more content, especially content that the*customers* are searching for.

hoping to salvage my business. /shop/ only appears on my home page because I didn't figure out how to get rid of it yet.

The /shop/ in the URL will not detract from your rankings. The removal of it won't increase them either.

The *only* reason why you should change this is if *you* don't like seeing it. No one, and nothing else is going to take any notice of it whatsoever.

Which is what I am doing here. Learning about options so I can decide the best way to proceed.

If 'SEO' is your *only* reason for wanting to change it I'm not sure it is really worth the effort. If you want to change it because you wish to re-organise your folder structure making /shop/ redundant, then do this either by getting rid of the redirects AND checking that your documentRoot is correctly set. Be warned though, doing this will break any existing indexed links (causing file not found errors).
There are two solutions to this.

1) Add different redirects so the accesses to /shop/ get redirected to / OR

2) Ignore the broken links, and let Google does what it was designed to do, namely re-index the site. This may take a few days, and sales will probably suffer during this time, but all else being equal when Google does the re-index it will/should restore the same rankings you previously had before this change (IOW, your current ranking).

I'm in the minority. I'll go for option#2 every time.

What a dilemma for you. Do you follow the view of the majority, or do you follow my lead? You call. Doesn't affect or bother me either way. ;-)

Cheers
RodG