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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Why I'm Quitting Zen Cart

    Quote Originally Posted by pricediscrimination View Post
    I'm exploring other options. This isn't flame thread, just a sad realization that the Internet has outgrown this platform
    I'm sure most long time zenners have these thoughts at times, myself included.

    Now, I'm not going to try to convince you over the benefits and pitfalls of one eCommerce system over another (none are perfect, and some are better suited to some needs than others), but I think I have a rather 'unique' perspective in that I've developed/ported the same shipping module (ozpost) for over half a dozen different eCommerce systems, so I've had plenty of opportunity to see how they compare from both the front end, the backend, and the coding perspective.

    Our main eCommerce site is still running ZenCart, and so far, none of the others have offered me any benefits worth considering to make me change.

    Some of the other systems may look prettier 'out of the box' than zencart (Well, most of them actually), and some appear to function better than zencart, but I don't think any have a function that zencart *doesn't* have.

    Most of them look great until after you've used them for a few weeks to find all the things zencart can do but they can't.

    Some of them have weekly updates (some folk can't even cope with a yearly zencart update), and although these updates *may* be easier to apply than ZenCart (with some systems), there are pretty much only needed to fix bugs and security issues that have already been taken care of in the zencart code *years* ago. This is a 'nice' way of saying that jumping ship to newer offerings is another way of saying a voyage on the titanic may seem like a good idea. :-)

    Seriously, ZenCart is far from perfect, but it is stable, reliable, secure with support that I've never seen elsewhere for any Software (not just eCommerce). By all means, feel free to investigate other systems. You could well find one more suited to *your* specific needs 'out of the box' (tip: WooCommerce for Wordpress is rapidly growing in support and popularity, and although for many years I would never recommend WP due to its ongoing security issues, it has now reached the stage where although there are still a lot of issues (due to the nature of the system) it has evolved to the stage where it can now keeps itself securely updated.
    Woo doesn't have all the functionality of ZenCart (by a long shot) but it does suit the needs of a lot of merchants with only a small number of products to sell, and this system has jumped from nowhere in my list of 'recommended systems' way up to #2 (with ZenCart being #1).

    As a hosting provider we carefully evaluate the customers needs before recommending Zen vs Woo. The others don't even get a mention as they seem to fall somewhere in between what Zencart has to offer and what Woo has to offer - Yes, we do host/support the other systems, but only at the clients specific request. To *me* ZenCart is for *serious* merchants with many products to sell. Woo is more for the hobby/owner that sells just a few products, runs a blog and is socially orientated.

    The others, as I suggest, sit somewhere in between.

    Just my perspective.

    Cheers
    RodG
    Ozpost - The Ultimate Shipping module for Australian Merchants. Click these links for its Homepage, or Download from Zen-Cart.com.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Why I'm Quitting Zen Cart

    RodG - I agree with you wholeheartedly, well said.

    And a big 'Thank You!' to the starter of this thread (pricediscrimination) for promoting this great platform with constructive criticism. You highlighted some parts of ZC which are badly in need of improvement. But rest assured, your input (and the input of others) makes this piece of software tick and move on. The devs surely are taking notice of this thread, don't you worry about that!

    Many of the issues raised are well known and are being addressed.

    Yes, others may be quicker of the mark implementing so called 'modern' requirements, but by being quick and rushed they easily (and repeatedly) overlook essential coding and security requirements and thus creating bugs which linger around for a long time. Magento is a perfect example of this rushed work.... some bugs reported 3 versions prior are still hanging around.

    Not so with ZC: it may take longer to implement something 'new' but it is always well thought through with the aim of not creating bigger problems (bugs). And if a bug surfaces after a new release then it is ironed out quick-smart and without creating a new flaw in the process.

    That's just my personal view as I see ZC, for what it counts for.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Why I'm Quitting Zen Cart

    Quote Originally Posted by pricediscrimination View Post
    • No modern site asks more than 3 or 4 questions to create an account. Email is more important than anything and account creation is basically another way of subscribing to an email list. Zencart asks 12+ questions just to create an account! Nobody wants to give their address and phone info just to join a site. I tried and tried and tried to get around this, but alas there's no resolution for this old school way of thinking.

    Day late and "dollar" short, but a rough solution to this is provided at the referenced thread... There are a few display items not commented out, the "control" of turning off the extra items is not "logical" and at the end the user is not returned to the point at which asking for the address was started... In my opinion some of those thngs to be discussed, others to just be "discovered" but that's what I came up with in the hour I devoted to it on a blank ZC install (no development tools added).
    ZC Installation/Maintenance Support <- Site
    Contribution for contributions welcome...
    Upgraded to Zen Cart V1.5.3 from V1.5.1 from V1.5.0 from V1.3.9h

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Why I'm Quitting Zen Cart

    I've been reading this thread with interest. I like others that have posted have looked at different platforms from time to time. I've also used or implemented and researched other hosted and open source platforms. While none are perfect I've never found another platform that had the functionality, security, and user community that zencart has. This post is a perfect example of one of zencart's most valuable assets. The community. Platforms that have been around this length of time tend to grow stagnant and the forums deteriorate into ugly troll fests. Zencart has a community that is helpful, passionate, and eager to develop additional function. That more than makes up for any shortcomings in my book.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Why I'm Quitting Zen Cart

    The other suggestion I would make to people evaluating other systems is - check their security posture. The lead developer of another open source shopping cart, when told his code was vulnerable to CSRF attack, said, "Oh, that would never happen."
    That Software Guy, Plugin Moderator. Store: Zen Cart Modifications
    Available for hire - See my ad in Services
    Contributions: Quantity Discounts, Better Together, SMS on Sale, Gift Wrap at Checkout, and more.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Why I'm Quitting Zen Cart

    Quote Originally Posted by swguy View Post
    The other suggestion I would make to people evaluating other systems is - check their security posture. The lead developer of another open source shopping cart, when told his code was vulnerable to CSRF attack, said, "Oh, that would never happen."
    Thanks for the insight (and PM received with thanks) - unbelievable indeed!

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Why I'm Quitting Zen Cart

    Security is hard, hard, hard, and what most folks don't know can indeed hurt them.
    That Software Guy, Plugin Moderator. Store: Zen Cart Modifications
    Available for hire - See my ad in Services
    Contributions: Quantity Discounts, Better Together, SMS on Sale, Gift Wrap at Checkout, and more.

  8. #28
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Why I'm Quitting Zen Cart

    I was also on the verge of leaving Zencart when faced with upgrading it or moving to a hosted solution. I went into Shopify trial and found that they do not even have the basic function of shipping by weight, you will have to pay extra to have that feature! Also on the downloadable feature, customers can not go into their account to download the file, instead they are sent an email link....and if they were not able to download from there you have to resend the link.

    Zencart spoils you with all the features of ecommerce! When you go outside of it, you will quickly appreciate what Zencart has to offer!


    Quote Originally Posted by yaseent View Post
    Impressive basic features. But when you need modules to solve even some simple stuff...you must pay a developer up to $15 per month...and if the module requires the use of database entries, the third-party developer is hosting this database for you...this is scary.




    Not really..I assume you're talking about Woocommerce? I've taken one look at a website a friend cooked up...I found it rather bloated-looking.



    Stupid accounting. I've been watching AccountEdge closely, by Acclivity. I'm going to be implementing that when I get a chance...there is some room for importing orders and so on...it's quite nifty, with a rather interesting mobile app as well. iOS only for now, but the desktop software is for Mac and PC - and it syncs some stuff back and forth to the mobile app.



    :)

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Why I'm Quitting Zen Cart

    For what it's worth,

    - we're actively rewriting the Checkout flow code to allow for Guest Checkout and shorter/longer checkout page combinations for v1.6.0 (you can see it on github now)

    - an extra templating "tier" for "shared" inheritance has been added, so you can have a middle layer of template/lang customizations that will remain despite replacing the visual template seasonally or whatever

    - and modernizations to the default template look/feel are in store too

    Plus a long list of additional features already in place.
    .

    Zen Cart - putting the dream of business ownership within reach of anyone!
    Donate to: DrByte directly or to the Zen Cart team as a whole

    Remember: Any code suggestions you see here are merely suggestions. You assume full responsibility for your use of any such suggestions, including any impact ANY alterations you make to your site may have on your PCI compliance.
    Furthermore, any advice you see here about PCI matters is merely an opinion, and should not be relied upon as "official". Official PCI information should be obtained from the PCI Security Council directly or from one of their authorized Assessors.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Why I'm Quitting Zen Cart

    DrByte! I'm one of your fan! :) You helped me a lot when I was starting out.

    On v1.6 I was wondering if the default template would somehow already be responsive? This is not something that will go away.

    Drupal v. 8 is building in responsive views on their tables.


    Quote Originally Posted by DrByte View Post
    For what it's worth,

    - we're actively rewriting the Checkout flow code to allow for Guest Checkout and shorter/longer checkout page combinations for v1.6.0 (you can see it on github now)

    - an extra templating "tier" for "shared" inheritance has been added, so you can have a middle layer of template/lang customizations that will remain despite replacing the visual template seasonally or whatever

    - and modernizations to the default template look/feel are in store too

    Plus a long list of additional features already in place.

 

 
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