Meta Tags - Defining Issues

**shags38** · 21 Oct 2018, 02:52 AM

v1.5.5f ... PHP 7.1 ... template: westminster_new .... site url: https://www.harmonyball.net.au/

I am experiencing problems with defining meta tags in admin > catalogue > categories/products using the action buttons for a product on an open categories page.

I can select the meta data I wish to show using the radio buttons and then save but then returning to that meta data define button for that product all radio buttons are reset to default.

The resultant issue of this inability to modify meta data is that EVERY selection is showing up in the source code for a product in <head><title> all meta data showing</title>

Additionally a bunch of meta data including the meta title of every category is showing up in <meta name="keywords" content= and all the meta title data is showing in the <meta name="description" content=

So all of this overuse of meta data is being read by the bots and cannot be doing the SEO / SERPs of the site a real lot of good.

This is happening on 5 sites upgraded to 1.5.5f and PHP 7.1 - on one site I went to admin > catalogue > product types > product general and changed configuration so that only product name was set to true. I did this to see if it made changes to the <head><title>....</title> and it did not change it at all.

I can only assume that a plugin I have loaded is interfering with the meta data settings, or I have mis-configured something along the way or that there is an unlikely hiccup with the system with the combination of 1.5.5f and PHP 7.1 ..... ????

So I am looking for some assistance please

The text in red color is unwanted and is likely to be perceived as spammy keyword stuffing by bots - I am not sure why it is being called.

Code:

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" dir="ltr" lang="en">
<head>
<title>Harmony Necklace, Balinese Hearts Designs, Sterling Silver [HBP475] - $44.06 : Harmony Ball Necklace | Harmony Necklace | Quality Sterling Silver</title>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" />
<meta name="keywords" content="Harmony Necklace, Balinese Hearts Designs, Sterling Silver [HBP475] ALL Harmony Ball Necklaces Harmony Ball Earrings Balinese 'Dream' Pendants 'Tree of Life' Necklaces Silver Chains & Necklace Cords PRIORITY SHIPPING Harmony Ball Bracelets Birthstone Harmony Balls UNIQUE Artisan Designs *UNIQUE* LARGE Harmony Balls Antique Harmony Balls Traditional Balinese Designs UNDER $49 Harmony Necklaces harmony ball necklace,harmony ball,harmony necklace,necklace,sterling silver,chime ball,pregnancy necklace" />
<meta name="description" content="Harmony Ball Necklace | Harmony Necklace | Quality Sterling Silver Harmony Necklace, Balinese Hearts Designs, Sterling Silver [HBP475] - Harmony Necklace with Sterling Silver Harmony Ball. A very popular and impressive Traditional Balinese Harmony Ball design with intricate Hearts designs on the Solid 925 Sterling Silver ornate outer casing, a wonderful example of Balinese craftsmanship. This Harmony Ball creates a beautiful soothing soft chiming sound with movement - this stunning " />

cheers,
Mike

plugins installed: super data, one page checkout, editable centerboxes, ultimate urls, google analytics, zen lightbox, product sorter, easy populate 4

**lindasdd** · 21 Oct 2018, 03:54 PM

How I would start to approach this if it was my site:
1.)Download a new version of Zen Cart 1.5.5f.

2.) For the meta tags reverting to default, do a file compare of /ADMINFOLDER/includes/modules/product/preview_info_meta_tags.php and /ADMINFOLDER/includes/modules/product/collect_info_metatags.php to the downloaded version. Look for diffs.

3.) For the meta tags output, do a compare of includes/templates/YOURCUSTOMTEMPLATE/common/html_header.php to the default version. For instance, in my files it is lines ~42 through ~54.

**davewest** · 21 Oct 2018, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by shags38

So I am looking for some assistance please

The text in red color is unwanted and is likely to be perceived as spammy keyword stuffing by bots - I am not sure why it is being called.

Metatags are not that complicated, but you need to know where they are generated from. Read this FAQ.. https://www.zen-cart.com/content.php...ngines-to-find

Basic or general Metatags come from the includes/languages/english/TEMPLATE_FOLDER/meta_tags.php You should have copied the default over if not, its in the base folder. This should have your basic site information, keywords, description.. not product info related.

Product Metatags are auto generated if you left the defaults on in the admin product type settings as explained in the FAQ. Setting these off, you would have to manually create metatags yourself for each product.

Product Metatag settings.. If you fill in the title, keywords, description, set the radios to no, then they would stay... blink fields and the radio buttons default back to what was set in product type settings..

The way its set up is to make metatags as simple as possible to maintain. So the site owner can concentrate on good content in product titles, descriptions, which leads to good metatags...

**shags38** · 21 Oct 2018, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by lindasdd

How I would start to approach this if it was my site:
1.)Download a new version of Zen Cart 1.5.5f.

2.) For the meta tags reverting to default, do a file compare of /ADMINFOLDER/includes/modules/product/preview_info_meta_tags.php and /ADMINFOLDER/includes/modules/product/collect_info_metatags.php to the downloaded version. Look for diffs.

3.) For the meta tags output, do a compare of includes/templates/YOURCUSTOMTEMPLATE/common/html_header.php to the default version. For instance, in my files it is lines ~42 through ~54.

Many thanks lindasdd for your response and suggestions - all file compares come up as identical - meta tags output in html_header.php was correct as well .......... so back to square one

cheers,
Mike

**shags38** · 22 Oct 2018, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by davewest

Product Metatags are auto generated if you left the defaults on in the admin product type settings as explained in the FAQ. Setting these off, you would have to manually create metatags yourself for each product.

Product Metatag settings.. If you fill in the title, keywords, description, set the radios to no, then they would stay... blink fields and the radio buttons default back to what was set in product type settings.

Many thanks Dave for your response and your input .... prior to upgrading to 1.5.5f (from 1.5.1) I manually added product title, keywords and description for every product however it became a time consuming issue with 5+ sites and a bunch of products so when I upgraded I changed most products to the 'default', i.e. I did not enter anything at all in define meta tags working on the assumption that the ZC system would take care of the meta tags ....

The problem is that it does so (apparently) by adding EVERY component of the data which results in what I have - spammy titles and descriptions. Now whether the algorithms are smart enough are smart enough to decipher that the combining of site title and product name in the product title is unintentional by the site owner and was not intended to be spammy keyword stuffing ? ......... well AI would have to be extremely well advanced to determine my intention.

HERE IS HOW I FOUND THE PROBLEM ..... since upgrading my sites about 2 months ago they have all suffered SERP rankings declines and hence declines in traffic and sales ..... by rights the status quo should have been maintained (with all else being equal) and indeed traffic should have increased because my previous version 1.5.1 was NOT mobile friendly ...... so I checked my Structured Data Markup and discovered I had not installed it properly. Melanie (mprough) helped me find the problem with my install and the markup was perfect after that .... it was during the markup testing that I discovered the meta tag / description problem, which has nothing to do at all with the super data plugin.

So the issue has existed since I upgraded.

As you can see I have done the file comparisons suggested by lindasdd and all is OK.

Read this FAQ.. https://www.zen-cart.com/content.php...ngines-to-find

It was good that you made mention of this ... I had read the article prior to posting however your mention reminded me of this phrase in RED text in the article
"Categories: To define meta tags for a Category, go to the Admin -> Catalog -> Categories/Products once you're there..click on the meta tag icon (the last one to the right for any given category) and set your content.
Note: A meta tag entry on this screen must contain something in the keywords and description fields or it is not considered complete, and will be ignored.

As much as the way the article reads this DOES NOT relate to Products it is actually applying in my case - if I do add any data then all other data reads correctly - see example below - in this case I changed all radio buttons to no except product name and simply added one word in the keywords block - now the data showing in source is exactly as it should be. So something is working as it should, collecting the data .... problem is that it requires an input to kick start the process.

Code:

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" dir="ltr" lang="en">
<head>
<title>Tree of Life Necklace with 7 Genuine Gemstones, Sterling Silver</title>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" />
<meta name="keywords" content="tree of life tree of life jewellery,tree of life,tree of life necklace,tree of life pendant, tree of life bracelet" />
<meta name="description" content="Tree of Life Necklace - 7 Gemstones Gorgeous Sterling Silver Tree of Life Pendant studded with seven (7) Genuine Gemstones including Amethyst, Citrine, Peridot, Blue Topaz, Tanzanite, Carnelian and Garnet on an Ornate Tree in a Teardrop shape and with an Ornate Bail - a really stunning jewelry piece with intricate " />

If I select/deselect the radio buttons as per above para and do not enter any text in any block the preview shows all the 'no' selected items as excluded .... as it should ... and update does not send out any error window / message .... however if I go back into that screen everything is reverted, as if I had not made any changes

So is this the way it is supposed to work?.... I doubt it ... but If so it is a real problem.

I am not a developer and probably shouldn't be making comments like this but I am inclined to think that there may be some sort of conflict or security issue with the process in a 1.5.5f / PHP 7.1 install.

cheers,
Mike

**davewest** · 22 Oct 2018, 05:55 AM

Originally Posted by shags38

So is this the way it is supposed to work?.... I doubt it ... but If so it is a real problem.

Yes... So, somewhere we are not on the same patch... My site is a ZC155f and php7.1.x and it all works as expected... I don't see any bugs in the code.

In Admin, Go to Catalog>Product Types select Products - General select 'Edit Layout' you well see a list of default settings for Metatags.. If you want to do the metatags yourself for every product, set this to false which shows as 0.. or leave it all as is...

In the product metatags, setting the switch only works if you actually imputed something into that corresponding text field.. All that does is to tell ZC to use your words and not the default... If you wish never to see default metatags created, you need to turn that off in edit layout for that product type..

Category Metatags are different, normally, if you don't create metadata it does not get displayed.

I create tags for some of my items, others I let the default system do it... Tags help quick search. When the tags don't match the content... that is bad. If you really want to figure out what works, just look at a big box store... there tags are single line and match page content..

**mc12345678** · 23 Oct 2018, 01:12 AM

Another way to state how the "default" settings work for product: if there is something (not the value '0') in either the keywords or description field, then use the setting last saved or if not saved or both are 'empty' then mark the option as defaulted to the product type. If the option selection value stored/returned does not exist then mark the meta feature to be displayed.

Now there may still be a php 7.x issue though I can't truly claim that yet. I am running php 7.2 on a test site with ZC 1.5.5 and 1.5.6 both installed. When I tried to disable the display of the products_model (no other data entered), the price appeared to get stored as $0.00. I believe it is a 7.2 not 7.1 issue, but may see...

**shags38** · 24 Oct 2018, 07:00 AM

@davewest and @mc123456789

Gentlemen - I apologize for some of the innuendo in my posts - I totally misunderstood the 'automatic' meta tag system and how it worked. Somewhere in a thread some time back about SEO and meta tags I read something to the effect that 'to save a lot of time and effort if you do not manually enter meta data for every product then the ZC system will do it for you selecting product name and description (to the value of characters set in configuration .....' - there was no mention of keywords however they were not really of any interest to me in that there is so much said that bots do not take any notice of keywords etc etc.

There was also no mention that when triggered it submits site meta title AND product meta title separated by a colon = spammy .... and same with description.

Also if one reads the FAQ on the subject https://www.zen-cart.com/content.php...ngines-to-find it is very vague and lacks a detailed explanation of how the system works and what to do and what not to do - and the statement in red type appears to relate to the paragraph in which it is contained ONLY, the way I read it certainly indicates that. (the statements about SEO and meta tags is, well ... at best someones opinion and likely somewhat misleading dependent on your leaning)

I have no problem in offering to re-write that FAQ ..... if it is vetted by you guys first before I submit it to ensure I have got it right. IMHO it should NOT contain opinions of meta tags and their place in SEO (or not) - simply this is how it works and this is what you do (optionally this way ... or that way).

Dave I agree (now) that it is not a code problem, but it is a problem in that setting the radio buttons to what you select and then confirm/upgrade doesn't result in a warning or an error.

MC ... for those that do not read the 'new' FAQ and do what I have done I'm not sure that the default of doing nothing should result in two lots of meta title being combined - that in itself is spammy

Also there should be an explanation of what 'custom keywords' in meta_tags.php actually means and what it is designed for and importantly what it is not designed for (I entered my keywords in that field resulting in two lots of keywords combined - very spammy)

As a suggestion for future development of ZC it would make sense to me to incorporate the adding of meta data on the product page so it is done at the same time as the product is entered with default pre-loading being product name and product description of that product with only keywords to be added - changing product name and description to 'custom' text would be selectable as an override. For the inexperienced at least the prime data will be there for the spiders to see as meta.

The way it is at present there could be a few others out there with double meta unknowingly on their sites.

Maybe this is being considered already - combining it with structured data markup would be ideal.

Anyway - just some thoughts.

So again thank you for your support (and lindasdd)

cheers,
Mike

at present I add keywords only and the system does the rest (keywords obviously trigger the system)

**davewest** · 24 Oct 2018, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by shags38

As a suggestion for future development of ZC it would make sense to me to incorporate the adding of meta data on the product page so it is done at the same time as the product is entered with default pre-loading being product name and product description of that product with only keywords to be added - changing product name and description to 'custom' text would be selectable as an override. For the inexperienced at least the prime data will be there for the spiders to see as meta.

Personally, I use CITTINS and do everything in one setting, even autotweet...
https://www.zen-cart.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=2171

I'm not so sure with today's search engines that metadata would be more impotent then content.. Maybe in the past... but it's interesting to see sites still trying the hidden keywords attempt.. Theirs nothing more time consuming then to have sites popup on a search that have nothing to do with the search!

**shags38** · 24 Oct 2018, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by davewest

Personally, I use CITTINS and do everything in one setting, even autotweet...
https://www.zen-cart.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=2171

I'm not so sure with today's search engines that metadata would be more impotent then content.. Maybe in the past... but it's interesting to see sites still trying the hidden keywords attempt.. Theirs nothing more time consuming then to have sites popup on a search that have nothing to do with the search!

Thanks Dave for the heads up on CITTINS - looks great, I will install it soon. You are right, content has always been king - meta data is more useful in structured data these days but meta <title> still plays a big part in SERP's .... if everything else on the site is conforming ....

Thanks again for your help - much appreciated.

cheers,
Mike

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