How do I create a sub-category?

[shags38]

v1.5.5f php7.1

As per the title "how do I create a sub-category? .... (of an existing category)" - may seem like a dumb question (probably is) but for the life of me I cannot see how to do it from admin anywhere and am struggling to find an answer in forums and FAQ's.

cheers, Mike

[mc12345678]

v1.5.5f php7.1

As per the title "how do I create a sub-category? .... (of an existing category)" - may seem like a dumb question (probably is) but for the life of me I cannot see how to do it from admin anywhere and am struggling to find an answer in forums and FAQ's.

cheers, Mike

Because of the way sales are handled, category can have either product or sub-catories. So, in order to create a sub-category, there should be no product in the category. That said, up until recently (not sure in which version it was changed either late 1.5.5 or in 1.5.6), it was possible to add a category if the product in a category were simply disabled. This likely could be reverted if more were done on the catalog side to be able to "properly" handle a category that if even temporarily still had product in it and a new category, but it was determined that users were not able to handle/understand that relationship, so now it is a little harder to create a category when the current category already has product.

Further unfortunately this is worst for a store where no categories exist yet and only product are present as at that point the only way to get product "out of the way" is to delete that product... if this admin side control is to be the way of the future, then no product should be able to be added to the root and only a category be created from the top of the store. Again, "to help and protect" the user... :/

[shags38]

Because of the way sales are handled, category can have either product or sub-catories. So, in order to create a sub-category, there should be no product in the category. That said, up until recently (not sure in which version it was changed either late 1.5.5 or in 1.5.6), it was possible to add a category if the product in a category were simply disabled. This likely could be reverted if more were done on the catalog side to be able to "properly" handle a category that if even temporarily still had product in it and a new category, but it was determined that users were not able to handle/understand that relationship, so now it is a little harder to create a category when the current category already has product.

Further unfortunately this is worst for a store where no categories exist yet and only product are present as at that point the only way to get product "out of the way" is to delete that product... if this admin side control is to be the way of the future, then no product should be able to be added to the root and only a category be created from the top of the store. Again, "to help and protect" the user... :/

Many thanks MC for your reply - puzzled by this part of your explanation

but it was determined that users were not able to handle/understand that relationship

by 'users' do you mean users of Zen Cart or users on a Zen Cart website that had sub-categories?
It really becomes limiting not to be able to add sub-categories.

So would this work? - on a populated site with a category 'widgets' that I want to have sub-categories >> create new category and add a quantity of sub-categories that is what is required plus a number of 'spares' for possible future use (as insurance because once populated further sub-categories will not be able to be added).

Using Easy Populate copy the existing widgets category then populate the 'new widgets' category (in robots.txt disallow this new category until the whole process is complete) - then use multiple categories manager to copy 'blue widgets', 'red widgets' etc to their respective sub-categories. Then when the process is complete and tests OK and after creating a 301 redirect old category to new, disable the original widgets category (and remove disallow in robots.txt).

In theory this will work - your opinion please?

Long winded but not so much longer than if you could simply click to add a sub-category.

cheers,
Mike

[mc12345678]

By users I was referring to (in my own words) those with admin rights to the Zen Cart catalog.

As far as a path forwards, EP4 does not "concern" itself with whether categories are added to those with/without product. This is one reason that the instruction identifies a need to be careful with the data supplied.

Basically what happens in a default ZC install if a category has both one or more categories and product together, a customer sees the category exists, they select it and then no product and no sub-categories are identified. Elsewhere the sub-categories may appear off of the that sub-category and can be accessed, but the product in that "parent" category are only accessible by other means (new product, featured, some identified link, etc...)

It is because of the above and that it is/was possible to create that condition that the fix was determined to be to prevent it from the admin side rather than to modify the "busy" area of the catalog to respond differently.

I don't know what "restrictions" the copy categories mod observes or puts in place. Again, the end goal is to have categories that have one or the other of product or other categories, not both. As said, the changes made are such that at no time whether active or inactive can that condition exist and I don't recall if it was late in 1.5.5 or 1.5.6...

One way to do it from within the admin is to disable all of the product in the category to have sub-categories. Move all of that product to some other category temporarily (suggest placing in a category that only has active product to make it easy to find again.) then create your sub-category tree. Once complete, then move those product back to where they are desired (should only be able to pick category that have no sub-category in it.) then toggle the status of the parent category and choose to activate all sub-product. Then as necessary disable those "future" categories. As to all the robots this and that, you can... understand the impact of whatever is or is not used, 404s, 302s, don't index/dont follow.. if there is that much concern, I might say to just put the site in maintenance mode temporarily... who knows what may go wrong otherwise...

[shags38]

By users I was referring to (in my own words) those with admin rights to the Zen Cart catalog.

As far as a path forwards, EP4 does not "concern" itself with whether categories are added to those with/without product. This is one reason that the instruction identifies a need to be careful with the data supplied.

Basically what happens in a default ZC install if a category has both one or more categories and product together, a customer sees the category exists, they select it and then no product and no sub-categories are identified. Elsewhere the sub-categories may appear off of the that sub-category and can be accessed, but the product in that "parent" category are only accessible by other means (new product, featured, some identified link, etc...)

It is because of the above and that it is/was possible to create that condition that the fix was determined to be to prevent it from the admin side rather than to modify the "busy" area of the catalog to respond differently.

I don't know what "restrictions" the copy categories mod observes or puts in place. Again, the end goal is to have categories that have one or the other of product or other categories, not both. As said, the changes made are such that at no time whether active or inactive can that condition exist and I don't recall if it was late in 1.5.5 or 1.5.6...

One way to do it from within the admin is to disable all of the product in the category to have sub-categories. Move all of that product to some other category temporarily (suggest placing in a category that only has active product to make it easy to find again.) then create your sub-category tree. Once complete, then move those product back to where they are desired (should only be able to pick category that have no sub-category in it.) then toggle the status of the parent category and choose to activate all sub-product. Then as necessary disable those "future" categories. As to all the robots this and that, you can... understand the impact of whatever is or is not used, 404s, 302s, don't index/dont follow.. if there is that much concern, I might say to just put the site in maintenance mode temporarily... who knows what may go wrong otherwise...

thanks MC for the detailed explanation - seems to be a puzzling and unnecessarily complicated system but I suppose it is what it is.

cheers,
Mike

[mc12345678]

thanks MC for the detailed explanation - seems to be a puzzling and unnecessarily complicated system but I suppose it is what it is.

cheers,
Mike

It's relatively simple, in a category that exists, place either product or categories. The basis for this as I have seen explained is dependent on the system for providing sales. Not the process of selling a product, but the discount as made by applying a sale to a category. To discount a single product, apply a special to it, though a product on special can also have a sale applied to it if the product with a special is in a category that is on sale.

[shags38]

It's relatively simple, in a category that exists, place either product or categories. The basis for this as I have seen explained is dependent on the system for providing sales. Not the process of selling a product, but the discount as made by applying a sale to a category. To discount a single product, apply a special to it, though a product on special can also have a sale applied to it if the product with a special is in a category that is on sale.

Thanks MC - I get how to set up sub-categories - so from what you said I'm reading it that it is a situation of limitations on adding sub-categories to categories with existing products due to Salemaker's limitations, the inability to apply discounts directly to a product or group of products that appears both in a category and a sub-category of that category? so limited to categories only.

Just out of interest, if, and I say if, SaleMaker had the ability to select products within a category to apply a sale to, then having sub-categories with products that appear also in the main category would enable having sub-categories in an already populated category?

thanks again,
Mike