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  1. #1
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    Default Who's Online page question: only one spider?

    ZC v157. PHP 7.2

    I just upgraded my site from 139 to 157. I noticed that my who's online page can only display one row of spider user. But by switching on/off "Exclude Spiders?" button, there would be at least more than 10 spider users at that time. I also notice that there is no session ID assigned for the displayed spider user, just blank. Is that normal to see only one spider user under who's online page, but there are many more spider users hidden somewhere?

    I remember back to v139, I saw more than one spider user rows under who's online page before...

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Who's Online page question: only one spider?

    This has "become" standard. There is a "list" of characteristics that identify a visitor as a spider, that matched visitor is tagged as a spider and that spider does not receive a session (if so set/desired though why should a spider have a session?) and then further, that visitor is in a way "ignored". To potentially sort and identify the specific spider in whole additional/separate tracking software can be added.

    It would seem that it has been determined that to support the central focus of making a sale as quickly as possible and with less mess that this tracking aspect has been removed from the core with the ability of something else to be added to do that tracking if desired...

    One may ask, what benefit is being lost by not having all of that individual and specific spider information? Identifying that would likely help to target a solution to meet your selling needs.
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Who's Online page question: only one spider?

    Quote Originally Posted by mc12345678 View Post
    This has "become" standard.
    I don't think the "this" you're referring to accurately covers the whole of what the OP is talking about.

    When one clicks on the filter to Not Exclude Spiders, all active spiders will normally show up in the list.
    Usually the only reason for spiders to not show (when you ask them to be shown) is if there are none currently active.
    .

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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Who's Online page question: only one spider?

    Because some times, a non-spider user will be identified as spider. So I want to see all the online users including spider users at same time. But yes you are right, this feature is not very important.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Who's Online page question: only one spider?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrByte View Post
    I don't think the "this" you're referring to accurately covers the whole of what the OP is talking about.

    When one clicks on the filter to Not Exclude Spiders, all active spiders will normally show up in the list.
    Usually the only reason for spiders to not show (when you ask them to be shown) is if there are none currently active.
    Here is the issue. My 157 site will show only one spider user/row at one time. As I mentioned before, by switching on/off "Exclude Spiders?" button, there would be at least more than 10 spider users at that time. Here is an example:

    At same time:
    Exclude Spiders = No, currently there are 32 customers online.
    Exclude Spiders = Yes, currently there are 10 customers online.

    So 32 - 10 = 22. There must be 22 spider users at same time. But my site only show one row of spider user online.

    So maybe two possibilites:

    1. There is only one spider user online (less likely). The user counting function has something wrong, so it counts much more spider users.

    2. There are more than 10 spider users online (likely). The spider display function has something wrong, so it can only display one spider user at one time.

    By the reply from mc12345678, I thought he has the same issue. So maybe it is a system level bug?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Who's Online page question: only one spider?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrByte View Post
    I don't think the "this" you're referring to accurately covers the whole of what the OP is talking about.

    When one clicks on the filter to Not Exclude Spiders, all active spiders will normally show up in the list.
    Usually the only reason for spiders to not show (when you ask them to be shown) is if there are none currently active.
    Hmm maybe I did misunderstand, I read it and though it's been a bit since I've really watched who's online with a relatively frequent refresh, but I thought when I showed spiders I could/would see multiple rows of spider entries but it would all appear to be from "one" spider where there was some variation in information. While I personally had ZC 1.3.9 installed for maybe a week before realizing I should have done things manually and been using the then up-to-date 1.5.0, I seem to recall the window being as I understood the above. :)

    My guess though is that because the store was so old, the list that identifies a visitor as a spider or not was not up-to-date and therefore all such real spiders were not necessarily identified as a spider. That information was being seen. Now that have an up-to-date store, the spiders are actually being handled properly...
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Who's Online page question: only one spider?

    Quote Originally Posted by njcyx View Post
    Because some times, a non-spider user will be identified as spider. So I want to see all the online users including spider users at same time. But yes you are right, this feature is not very important.
    This condition actually is concerning. If the visitor is a true person and not some automaton, then if they are identified as a spider, they also basically will not be able to check out if I am not mistaken. Basically they wouldn't have/hold a session.
    Quote Originally Posted by njcyx View Post
    Here is the issue. My 157 site will show only one spider user/row at one time. As I mentioned before, by switching on/off "Exclude Spiders?" button, there would be at least more than 10 spider users at that time. Here is an example:

    At same time:
    Exclude Spiders = No, currently there are 32 customers online.
    Exclude Spiders = Yes, currently there are 10 customers online.

    So 32 - 10 = 22. There must be 22 spider users at same time. But my site only show one row of spider user online.

    So maybe two possibilites:

    1. There is only one spider user online (less likely). The user counting function has something wrong, so it counts much more spider users.

    2. There are more than 10 spider users online (likely). The spider display function has something wrong, so it can only display one spider user at one time.

    By the reply from mc12345678, I thought he has the same issue. So maybe it is a system level bug?
    Hmm. Think I said it had been a spell since I had really focused on watching the who's online results, but I do know that in 1.5.7 it underwent a significant change. This reduction of displayed spiders may have been one of the "improvements" which goes back to DrByte correcting my statement of "the new normal". I don't personally know if it was intentional or just an effect of the revision. That said, it is entirely possible that a single spider is busy on the site or as one might expect, quickly moving through. That doesn't mean that the observed numbers were just from the one though.
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Who's Online page question: only one spider?

    Quote Originally Posted by mc12345678 View Post
    I thought when I showed spiders I could/would see multiple rows of spider entries but it would all appear to be from "one" spider where there was some variation in information
    That is correct.

    Every visit ("click") a spider does to a page will appear as another line-item.

    Once identified as a spider they will not be granted a session and therefore it doesn't treat subsequent hits as an "update" to the prior visit but rather as a new visit, hence the new line-item.

    None of this changed in the refactor for v1.5.7.

    Quote Originally Posted by njcyx View Post
    As I mentioned before, by switching on/off "Exclude Spiders?" button, there would be at least more than 10 spider users at that time. Here is an example:

    At same time:
    Exclude Spiders = No, currently there are 32 customers online.
    Exclude Spiders = Yes, currently there are 10 customers online.

    So 32 - 10 = 22. There must be 22 spider users at same time. But my site only show one row of spider user online.
    Historically there have been various updates made to try to "correct" the math done here. For example, whereas some people want duplicate IPs to be ignored, some don't.

    Personally I never look at those numbers when viewing the whos-online page. I'm usually more interested in the "what are they doing" details than on the "how many right now" numbers.
    All that to say there might be a bug in the counter or the part that calculates whether to add a given item into the counter accrual process.

    Quote Originally Posted by njcyx View Post
    Here is the issue. My 157 site will show only one spider user/row at one time.
    I agree that that's unlikely to be normal.

    Unfortunately I can't replicate the issue.

    Similarly, I can't ascertain whether it should be alarming or not.

    At this point I'm not feeling like it's something to lose sleep over, but it would be nice to understand the root causes of both situations unique to your site:
    - why only one spider line showing (it could actually be true that only one spider hit is happening during the time period that the report covers)
    - why the counter math seems "off"
    .

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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Who's Online page question: only one spider?

    Hi DrByte & mc12345678. Thanks for your help on my strange cases.

    After I upgraded my live server from 139 to 157, I noticed that all visitors showing the same server IP instead of their real IP (bluehost, PHP7.2), so I use the following link to update functions_general.php & general.php files to remove "HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR", then my site could report correct IP addresses for all visitors.

    https://www.zen-cart.com/showthread....14#post1359014

    I'm not sure if it is related. Yes, the spider issue is not kind of a big issue, but I would like to see if it is possible to correct it. Anyway right now, if I keep clicking "REFRESH LIST" button, I can only see one row of spider (only one entry). It may show google bot at first, then it will show bing bot, etc. There is no log files generated.

    Yes, it will difficult to reproduce this issue. We have another testing site. But it blocks outside visitors including spiders. We don't want the content of testing sites showing on the search engines.

    If you can let me know how to generate log files, I'd like to provide it to you for reference.

    Thanks again.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Who's Online page question: only one spider?

    Quote Originally Posted by njcyx View Post
    After I upgraded my live server from 139 to 157, I noticed that all visitors showing the same server IP instead of their real IP (bluehost, PHP7.2), so I use the following link to update functions_general.php & general.php files to remove "HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR", then my site could report correct IP addresses for all visitors.
    That's not an issue with Zen Cart.
    That's an issue with the network your server is set up to use. Sounds like you're behind some sort of proxy or WAP that's not correctly passing IPs along.

    Sort that out with your hosting company.

    Again: not a Zen Cart issue.
    .

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