Road Map to a Modular Design

[travbacon]

First of all please do not take my comments in a negative fashion as I am sure all of us appreciate the hard work the devs, plugin authors and support team have done since forking from oScommerce.

Do you feel ZC is outdated in design? What I mean is take for example, I have worked on some WP sites, their Woo Commerce is very attractive. You install WP and you can customize it any way you wish only limited by what plugins are available. You add them, activate them and that is it. Don't like the footer design? Add a footer plugin, active it, customize it on your backend. These plugins do not modify the WP core files. Don't like the plugin? Deactivate it and remove it from your WP site. No "hacking" of core files through FTP.

This is what I mean by modular in design like Legos. You don't hack up Lego pieces to make them fit.

Another example is I used to use SMF for forums but I feel they are still behind the times. Their piugin system still breaks down and "tries" to modify core files and if their system doesn't work, you'll manually need to "hack" it in.

I use phpbb now. You install phpbb. Want to customize it? Download a plugin and upload it to the extension directory and activate it on your backend. No core files touched. It took me 2 months to learn how to modify SMF the way I wanted it. I got close but then gave up. Found phpbb and in a week was up and running with the exact plugins I needed.

Will ZC move in this direction? Yeah, you have more customization but this isn't 5 or 10 years ago. Other e-commerce platforms are modular and can do the same thing now with you really never having to touch any core files.

I've read through a lot of "help me" threads here and notice "How do you do this and here's my site link" and a lot of those links lead to a different software platform now.

Right now maintaining ZC is more work than I want. For what I pay in dedicated hosting and updating plugins with hired help. It looks like converting to WP and using Woo Commerce would be a better option. WP keeps their servers updated, the WP software updated, the plugins are authenticated by WP before being released. Same as BigCommerce and other e-commerce sites. All I have to do is click "update". The only initial cost is converting ZC to WP.

This is why I ask, do you feel ZC is outdated in its design? It just seems I'm doing and paying for a lot more work than I should. I should be making money on the front end, not worrying about ZC breaking down, plugins being out of date and my core files being hacked to where it's incompatible with other plugins.

Thoughts? Thank you for reading.

[mc12345678]

Such has been said for as long as I've been using ZC (approaching 12 years now). One thing to note though is the significant difference in capability as well as security. That said, there are a number of things that have been heading more of the way of plug and play versus edit. In my opinion, a lot of it has to do with community support. For example, that "great" plugin that someone wants to use that offers all of the desired features, can it be installed without editing core files? Yeah, more than likely. Has it been done? Probably. Has it been shared back for others to use? Perhaps not. Could it be done with one minor tweak of the Zen Cart core code where functionality would remain the same but additional features possible? Probably, is it hard to suggest such a change? Nope.

As to "constant edits", well the biggest issue(s) have been related to the underlying platform... For example, ZC 1.5.7 is built to support a span of PHP versions. Unfortunately, as of PHP 8.0 there are features that are easier for coding but are not at all supported at even PHP 7.0 let alone 5.6. So, for the broadest compatibility of just targeting a ZC version, one must work in the lowest php version supporting operation at the highest level. E.g. don't use list($x, $y) = each($thisArray)... I even found myself early on first designing classes with a constructor like it is now supposed to be; however, the examples I had back in the day were of the old PHP 4.x style, prevalent, and appeared "right". I was wrong. But, then there is database related handling such as inserting to ensure reference to each field name in association with the value that is to be insert instead of just "assuming" that the number of fields are only those identified in a new database. Then comes along those that build and design for what is currently needed ignoring the possibility of growth or expansion and claiming that anything more is unnecessary.

Each individual involved with the software, noting that you too are one of those, can help make it better in his/her/their own way. Demanding is not helpful, but identifying the need, offering suggestions, explaining the why and how it would make things better does help. In the (recent) past, a lot has been done to support continued improvement of the base code while allowing those other plugins to still have a recognizable point of incorporation even if that point is something like a trigger point at which to execute other code.

I know, for example, I was recently reviewing someone's edits. They had code incorporated into the orders class; however, I found that none of that code had to actually be in the orders class and could instead be placed in a separate set of files that would be triggered when the appropriate orders class code was executed. Surprising to me, that code was in an older Zen Cart version and even there it did not need to reside specifically in that core file then and obviously not now in an updated system. If the software hadn't been uniquely designed for the store, then I would have sought updating the associated module.

Again, your statements are not new and there is always room for improvement. In some regards that too comes at a cost of some sort to someone. Hope that by however much it helps, if even to just air some of the frustration of updating and software management. The plugin architecture is certainly undergoing updates and the core developers recognize the impact that development is going to have along with those that choose to support the community.

[swguy]

Lots of people migrate between platforms. If it makes sense for you, do it. But you seem to believe a whole bunch of things that are not true.

> WP keeps their servers updated, the WP software updated, the plugins are authenticated by WP before being released.
This is completely untrue.
The company Securi makes money all day long disinfecting WordPress sites. Popular plugins are frequently acquired by bad actors who infect them with malware.

> Same as BigCommerce and other e-commerce sites.
Big Commerce is a SAAS offering with a monthly fee. Is it worth it? Maybe - it depends on what you're selling. For a lot of businesses, it makes way more sense to use Big Commerce or Shopify than Zen Cart. But if you need modifications? If you have a complicated fulfillment process? If you need custom integrations with dropshippers and other vendors? You won't be able to afford it if you're a small player. Agencies that specialize in these platforms charge a lot more than the kinds of people who do custom work for Zen Cart.

> The only initial cost is converting ZC to WP.
Again, not correct. Especially for Big Commerce , but even for Woo. All kinds of plugins in Woo, even basic ones, are provided for a monthly fee. Even something as basic as "limit quantity" is $60/year.

https://woocommerce.com/products/car...-restrictions/

More plugins? More money - or more problems if they're unsupported or abandoned by their authors.

No platform is perfect for everyone. Zen Cart is a good match for some stores but not for others. Good luck.

[travbacon]

No I understand not all WP plugins are "free". There's going to be added cost but in the end, we are maintaining our own dedicated server because we don't want our host automatically updating php or mysql and then find out some kind of hack code that was done to make ZC work no longer works.

Whereas ZC is hosted on their servers so if anything one part is updated, then the rest will be made sure to work properly. In the end it's cost vs time. We rather pay a little more.

"The company Securi makes money all day long disinfecting WordPress sites. Popular plugins are frequently acquired by bad actors who infect them with malware."

Any platform can be hacked. WP is just targeted more frequently because it is being used more widely nowadays.

All I am asking is there a road map to make ZC more user friendly because getting it to "run" has been the same procedure for how long now whereas other platforms have "modernized".

I'm not sure how accurate this is but I've looked at other sites for comparison and I have noticed more and more sites using Woo Commerce since it is maintained by WP themselves.

https://enlyft.com/tech/products/zen-cart

Is there actual data from ZC themselves that shows if there is user decline (no I don't think we can go by how many times ZC has been downloaded, that would be inaccurate).

Again, not a knock on ZC, just my observation and looking toward what is ahead and what path we should take. We are just spending more time on maintaining ZC than I think we should be.

[travbacon]

"For example, that "great" plugin that someone wants to use that offers all of the desired features, can it be installed without editing core files? Yeah, more than likely. Has it been done? Probably. Has it been shared back for others to use? Perhaps not."

I agree probably not. And that is a weak point. There are many plugins offered for WP users and that's probably what is helping them gain users. Ease of backend use, no core hacking and plentiful plugins.

[mc12345678]

"For example, that "great" plugin that someone wants to use that offers all of the desired features, can it be installed without editing core files? Yeah, more than likely. Has it been done? Probably. Has it been shared back for others to use? Perhaps not."

I agree probably not. And that is a weak point. There are many plugins offered for WP users and that's probably what is helping them gain users. Ease of backend use, no core hacking and plentiful plugins.

Ok, so that said, as indicated earlier, you are part of the community that uses, supports AND has an opportunity to give back to it... I'm not talking about some sort of financial donation, I'm straight up talking about identifying what core edits you've had to implement to get Zen Cart to do what you want/need it to do.

You identify where those core edits are, what data needs to be available and/or modified and an observer (as one method of "correcting") could be added into the core code where you then NEVER have to edit core code again... The rest of the store could "grow up" around those changes and you just make sure the code associated with your plugin(s) is up-to-date with the latest PHP requirements... People change their core code for many different reasons and as even yourself said, its users giving back to the community that helps to make the improvements. You have a perfect opportunity to do that and appears like you have the drive/desire to see it happen.