Things every New Zenner needs to know

[kuroi]

Hi Ray

I'm afraid that you're heading into a bit of a dead end here.

so my thoughts were that a WYSIWYG approach (Dream Weaver) to building a site would be the logical choice.

For a static site yes. But Zen Cart is what's known as a dynamic site, i.e. it uses information from a database to decide which pages to display and what data to show on them. Dreamweaver does have some facilities to do this, but they're not very good and not compatible with how Zen Cart works.

The problem is, I haven't found a good explanation of the relationships between Zen Cart (proper) and it's customizable template, versus a Zen Cart template that can be purchased, and whether you actually can use Dream Weaver to re-format/customize either of them.

Zen Cart has a default template that does most, if not all, of what you would want. You build your own template by placing additional files into a parallel folder structure to "over-ride" the way the default template works to make it function differently or change its look. Templates that can be purchased (or downloaded for free from this site) simply speed up the process of building up that parallel folder. Beware though some of the commercial templates. They can sometimes be out-of-date or inhibit Zen Cart functions if not implemented properly (and there are a few out there that aren't). Yes you an use Dreamweaver to edit your templates, though in Code mode rather than WYSIWYG.

I'm assuming that Dream Weaver is ostensibly a visual editor that converts WYSIWYG into the appropriate HTML/PHP/FLASH code, while the Zen Cart tutorials are manual editing instructions that require at least some understanding of HTML/PHP coding?

Dreamweaver is a visual editor, but what you describe is a code generator. You can layout things that won't change visually and it will translate this into HTML. You can use it to insert blocks of dynamic PHP or Flash, but you would have to write them yourself, and Zen Cart is the other way round. It's a dynamic application with blocks of XHTML inserted.

My biggest question starting out is: would the best approach be for a novice to select a pre-designed Zen Cart template (100's of them available for under $150) that has the desired look and feel, which would only require slight modifications like Logos and category naming, etc.....and can a program like Dream Weaver be used to make those modifications?

My recommendation would be to start by building your own simple template. You'll end up going through the same steps with a paid for template anyway, but understand better what you're doing. Yes, you can use Dreamweaver, but it'll never come out of code view and my copies destined for the bin shortly.

[RayNAustin]

Thanks so much, kuroi, I appreciate your kind response.

OK, I understand now. And with that basic level of understanding, I agree with your recommendation about building a simple template myself for the reasons you mentioned. But with my lack of knowledge with HTML/XHTML me ask you a couple of other questions if you'd be so kind and patient with me...

Your recommended approach would obviously give me a better understanding of how Zen Cart works and what I'm doing (always the best scenario), though I fear it would also require a great deal of time for the obvious learning curve (starving artists here with a very cool product in need of the most expeditious means for getting a revenue generator online). But to be clear, I don't expect everyone here to spend their valuable time just to make it quick and easy for me. I'm just trying to avoid banging my head against a brick wall (like trying to customize Zen Cart with Dream Weaver). So my questions are so that I can formulate an approach that is reasonable and doable, then I can jump in and muddle through the appropriate documentation and figure it out. With that said, may I ask you just a short few more questions?

Question 1:, alternatively, would it be a reasonable approach to go at this from the opposite direction.....that is to select a template that most closely reflects what we're looking for as a final product and delete elements we don't need or use from it? Or are there just too many interdependencies which could make that approach unpredictable and more difficult? Let me give you an example:

After reviewing the free templates on this site (very cool stuff) the "Apple Zen designed by Jade True" template has a drop down style of categories across the top menu bar that we would really like, though the template itself has a very complex set of features including items located on product information pages that we have no use for (multiple color choices, multiple prices, etc.). Can these unneeded features be simply turned off (not displayed) without creating problematic issues downstream?

Question 2: Is it even reasonable for a novice to be able to build a dynamic site from scratch in a 3-4 week time frame or is that too ambitious and optimistic, with the better approach being a static site using a simple paypal cart.

Question 3: Let's say we decide that doing this ourselves will require more time and expertise than we have.....what effort would it be for an experienced Zen Cart creator to create a customized template incorporating our specific requirements that we could then load product jpegs and descriptions?

As a reference point: We are selling handmade jewelry...three categories: Necklaces, Bracelets, Earrings. About 30 products per category, with Necklaces and Bracelets having three size choices. We absolutely do need the functionality to enter number of items in stock, and the automatic out of stock and unavailable to order element when the in stock number decrements to zero. The rest of the stuff would be the common needs like shipping calculator, invoices, shipping labels, etc, which interface with paypal.

Would that be a $1000 job....a $5000 job?

Question 4: If we do a basic template ourselves, are there adequate resources and instructions geared toward the clueless like me? Example: I understand the the cut and paste method based on some review of the documentation like overwriting our specific logo in a template by replacing the logo.gif file. But what about sizing? Does Zen Cart automatically size the new gif to fit the logo window...is the image just cropped by the window or does the window expand to accept the gif.

I apologize if some of these questions are elementary. And your patience and guidance is truly appreciated.

[riniuia]

I'm a very new zenner:)
My first question is, how to modify the interface of the website that using zen cart? there are a lot of templates for zen cart available but can i modify it? such as change the images, color, font type, etc.

[kuroi]

with my lack of knowledge with HTML/XHTML me ask you a couple of other questions if you'd be so kind and patient with me...

This is generally a kind and patient forum, and questions asked courteously will normally receive similarly measured responses. It also helps if it's clear that the FAQ and/or search facilities have been consulted as frequent respondents like to feel that the questioner has made some effort to find the answer rather than just posting (there are questions, already answered in the FAQ, that still get asked pretty well every day and tend to receive quite brief responses as result!)

Question 1:, alternatively, would it be a reasonable approach to go at this from the opposite direction.....that is to select a template that most closely reflects what we're looking for as a final product and delete elements we don't need or use from it?[/quote]That's a perfectly OK alternative approach, though in general we use switches in the Admin to turn things off rather than deleting them. Indeed, the default Zen Cart set up should be treated as showing what's available so you can choose what to leave on, rather than a suggestion that you overwhelm your visitors with information!

Apple Zen is a little unusual in having extra code to allow you to see how different color schemes would be implemented and I suspect that deleting those you weren't using would be fine. I haven't used it myself though, so you might want to pop over to the Apple Zen Support thread to double check that.

Question 2: Is it even reasonable for a novice to be able to build a dynamic site from scratch in a 3-4 week time frame or is that too ambitious and optimistic, with the better approach being a static site using a simple paypal cart.

It's difficult for me to answer that as the learning curve is steeper for some than others, and the length of any project is dependent upon the extent to which Zen Cart needs to be changed to accommodate the site's requirements. But I'd say yes, it should be very feasible. Take it one step at a time. Set one objective for each day focus on it, use the FAQ and the forum to help you achieve it. And if it proves easier than you expected, treat anything else that you achieve that day as a bonus. That will help keep the inevitable frustration that comes with scaling a steep learning curve under control.

Question 3: Let's say we decide that doing this ourselves will require more time and expertise than we have.....what effort would it be for an experienced Zen Cart creator to create a customized template incorporating our specific requirements that we could then load product jpegs and descriptions?

All the functionality that you quoted is standard in Zen Cart. It wouldn't be appropriate for me to start quoting figures for developing sites. Different designers / developers bring different skills, experiences and pricing to their work, but nobody reputable would quote without getting to know your requirements in more depth. But I will say that you're thinking realistically for a professional quality job.

Question 4: If we do a basic template ourselves, are there adequate resources and instructions.

The FAQ contains a lot of information to get you started, and the forum is a particularly potent resource to keep you moving forward.

I apologize if some of these questions are elementary.

We all had to start somewhere.

[kuroi]

I'm a very new zenner:)
My first question is, how to modify the interface of the website that using zen cart? there are a lot of templates for zen cart available but can i modify it? such as change the images, color, font type, etc.

That's a very big question. I'd recommend starting with something smaller and more specific and I think you'll find that the big question will answer itself.

How about:
How do I change the header image? or
How do I change the "Congratulations ..." Message? or
Can I use an image for the sidebox header?

[KRahall]

First as a newbie my frustration was that you advertised the book would get you up and running. In the very beginning of the book it is confusing. It needs to state clearly if you are hosting your own website. Most of us are not and we are trying to create zencart on our pc. I was told to throw away the book by one since all I needed to do was upload to my site. Still, the instructions in the book are sketcy. Lpload, zipped, unzipped ???

Secondly, after months of trying to get it to work I gave up and have jsut recently started trying again. A lot of people can understand the process with clear step by step instructions. These books assume the person has more knowledge than they do and it gets frustrating. When the e-start book is sold one assumes it contains all information and it is really only deals with your database.

We need step by step instructions including if you use fantastico and/or simple scripts to install zencart. From the questions I see a majority of people do and then have no idea where to pick up in the "book" only to realize all of the customization of zen cart IS NOT INCLUDED.

[canopy]

Hi KRahall,

The local setup does require some patience to set up because there are a lot of steps involved. I've had complaints from readers that some of the steps are too detailed (e.g. why not just say "unzip the file"?) while other readers have said the steps are too simple (e.g. why not say "right-click on a file, select ...").

Some readers have chosen not to install Zen Cart on their local PC because they already have a web hosting account and can run a test store from there. However, what they found useful about the instructions in the book on local setup is how it helps them "visualize" the whole installation process on their servers when they were performing a manual installation on their remote servers. In fact, some of them chose to install a local version of their store after getting their remote ones to work.

That said, the local set up is not essential and should only be used for testing purposes as I've stressed in the book.

You also mentioned that the instructions should concentrate on Fantastico or something to do with simple scripts. However, that could present more problems.

Some readers don't know what is FTP, what are web hosts, or what file permissions are. This is in addition to the problems of different OSes (e.g. Linux, Mac, Windows), software and their related versions (e.g. PHP, MySQL), etc. Furthermore, Fantastico is not a recommended installation method due to the potential problems it can pose. You can find out more from the other posts in the forums.

What I'm trying to say is that the book will not be able to cover everything (even for the setup alone) as there are simply too many permutations. In that respect, it will always come up short in certain areas. Especially as you rightly pointed out regarding the customization portion.

Instead, the book seeks to concentrate on the store functions which a store owner should know to run a store effectively instead of providing instructions to help developers/designers customize the code to meet a certain functionality/design.

For example, some store owners have reflected to me that they would have gone ahead to customize their stores with code if they had not known that some of the functionality they require already exists in Zen Cart. Some are even happier to note that the functionality they didn't know they required has already been taken care of.

PS: I'm not happy with how some parts of the book were written as well and am currently in the process of revising the book's contents so I want to thank you for your honest comments.

[moejoe1976]

Currently, my subcategories have image links in the center box and are lining up on the left. Does anyone know how to change it from lining up like this:

sub 1
sub 2
sub 3

to this:

sub 1 sub 2 sub 3
sub 4 etc...

???
Thank you

[kuroi]

Currently, my subcategories have image links in the center box and are lining up on the left. Does anyone know how to change it from lining up like this:

sub 1
sub 2
sub 3

to this:

sub 1 sub 2 sub 3
sub 4 etc...

???
Thank you

This normally means that you have deleted the float:left styling in your stylesheet that causes the subcategories to line up as they do by default in Zen Cart.

[GraceBwithu]

I have just begun looking into Zen Cart

So far the information offered that tells a person how do get started is hard to find. I find myself browsing, guessing and spending hours trying to find answers to just very simple guestions. Actually I have not been able to seen any changes that I thought I was making reflected in the index page...

If this software is as great as they advertise it to be...why does someone not spend a little time documenting things.

Even something as simple as openning admin module is not explained well. This is something that should be as simple as adding a link on their start up page.

And also when I make changes to the admin area where does it go...I've honestly never seen a peice of software that advertises to make setting something up easy that is sooofulll of you know what.

SHOW ME THE MONEY!