PayPal Pro - They've Made Changes

[agraddy]

All right, after doing some searching on this forum, I see that PayPal Pro integration seems to be a sensitive issue.

I've got a client who is planning to use PayPal Pro for their payment processing so I have been doing some research on the topic.

It seems that most of the contention with integrating PayPal Pro centered on the Express Checkout Option and a rule listed in the SDK that said "Give PayPal users the option to checkout without logging into your store account."

Well, I am happy to report that that rule has been eliminated from the Integration PDF: https://www.paypal.com/en_US/pdf/PP_...ationGuide.pdf

If you look at page 19, the old rule is no longer listed. In fact, the Express Payment gives you two options for placing the Express Checkout button. The Integration Guide now says that you have the option of adding the Express Checkout button to the Billing Page (after you have requested shipping info from the customer).

The new wording in the Integration Guide seems to indicate to me that it would work just fine with Zen Cart. I'm new to Zen Cart (I've used osC before), so I may be missing something. If I did miss something or I am not understanding something, please let me know.

I just thought everyone might be interested that PayPal Pro could now be integrated with Zen Cart without having to wait for the checkout system rewrite in version 1.5.

[24#Karat_fan]

actually id didnt say give the users the option,
It states that express checkout must be used along side paypal pro api.

and that the express checkout MUST be in place before a user is required to enter any personal information on the store site

[agraddy]

Yes, you have to allow the use of the Express Checkout Option, but if you look at the PDF that I linked to, on page 51, it makes it very clear that you have two options of where you can integrate the Express Checkout Option: 1) Before you gather any personal info OR 2) On the billing page (after you have already gathered shipping info).

and that the express checkout MUST be in place before a user is required to enter any personal information on the store site

Your statement is based on old information.

[24#Karat_fan]

please read page 19 of the guide you just sent me to

Website Payments Pro Business Rules
Website Payments Pro must be integrated on your website in the following ways. You must:
1. Present the PayPal Express Checkout button and associated messaging before requesting
shipping address, billing address, and financial information. PayPal account holders should
not be required enter any of this information on your website, because the information is
available from their PayPal accounts. See “Button Placement Business Rules for Express
Checkout Shortcut” on page 52.
2. Display PayPal as an option along side other payment methods, wherever other payment
methods are offered. See “Button Placement Business Rules for Express Checkout Mark”
on page 56.
3. Present the PayPal mark graphic wherever other payment marks are displayed.
NOTE:You can find this logo graphic in the PayPal logo center at the following location:

[agraddy]

Yes, it does state on page 19 that you have to have the option before shipping info for PayPal users but later in the file on page 51 it clearly states that you can place the PayPal Express button after receiving shipping information.

Compare those rules that you just posted with these rules that were posted by Merlin1969 about a year ago: http://www.zen-cart.com/forum/showth...ght=paypal+pro (last post on the page)

Website Payments Pro Business Rules
Website Payments Pro must be integrated on your website in the following ways. You must:
1. Present the PayPal Express Checkout button and associated messaging before requesting
shipping address, billing address, and financial information. PayPal account holders should
not be required enter any of this information on your website, because the information is
available from their PayPal accounts. See “Placement of the Express Checkout Button” on
page 47.
2. Display PayPal as an option along side other payment methods, wherever other payment
methods are offered. See “Placement of PayPal With Other Payment Methods” on page 50.
3. Give PayPal users the option to checkout without logging into your store account.
4. Present the PayPal mark graphic wherever other payment marks are displayed.
NOTE:You can find this logo graphic in the PayPal logo center at the following location:
https://www.paypal.com/logocenter

The whole reason I came across these changes is because I was trying to find rule number 3 in the PDF and on PayPal's site "3. Give PayPal users the option to checkout without logging into your store account." That seems to me to be the biggest obstruction to using Zen Cart as the shopping cart because Zen Cart requires an account to be created. It is clear that the rule has now been dropped which seems to indicate that you can allow users to create an account and still use PayPal Express.

I agree that the PDF says on page 19 that you cannot accept shipping information until you offer the PayPal users an express option, but the manual later contradicts itself on page 51 by saying:

You have a design choice for placing PayPal buttons on your website:
􀁺 Implementation Point A: The Express Checkout Shortcut implementation
with the button graphic at the beginning of checkout
Or
􀁺 Implementation Point B: The Express Checkout Mark implementation
with the button graphic before the end of checkout

Regardless of the contradiction, I think the bigger point is that they dropped the rule that users have to be able to buy without creating an account.

[24#Karat_fan]

Actually they didnt,
You are looking at a graphic mark.
the option MUST be before users are required to enter any information,
You can have it BOTH places but it is required before.

You are correct give them the OPTION to choose express checkout.....

you are adding a lot between the lines.....

the option is to either use express checkout NOW or use another payment later.

you are on the same page 19 LOOK UP at rule 1

[agraddy]

When I originally posted this, I wasn't trying to get into a big argument. I simply wanted to point out to everybody that PayPal changed some of their rules, which in my opinion makes it more feasible to integrate into Zen Cart without breaking PayPal's TOS.

It's pretty clear that we disagree on the interpretation of the document and I don't think constantly posting back and forth is going to change either of our viewpoints.

I realize that Rule 1 has not changed. I wanted to point out that they dropped Rule 3 as I posted above. Since I don't have the original file that Merlin1969 copied from, it would seem to me that page 51 is an addition to this new document as well.

I'm not sure what you mean by graphic mark, but my interpretation of the document is that PayPal has become more flexible and would allow an express payment button on the billing page instead of having to post it before any information is gathered...I realize that you do not read it that way. It's clear that we disagree on the interpretation of the document.

In my opinion, PayPal has not been absolutely clear in their instructions and rules which leaves contradictions in the document. What I think is clear is that they dropped the rule that required that there be an option that an account not be created.

Anyway, that's just my 2 cents. Sorry if I caused you any frustration. I just find it interesting and encouraging that they altered the rules (I realize that it does not eliminate all questions, but it definitely seems to be a step in the right direction).

[DrByte]

It's interesting that they appear to have changed their policies.

I still don't see how having the customer not give you their address/contact information helps you sell to them more effectively, especially if you need to ship to them. It leaves you needing to reference all the order-fulfillment data in two places. How does that save any time or money?

Or is the purpose behind desiring to go to Payment Pro simply to get a more attractive discount rate and maybe access to a CC terminal for manual processing?

[agraddy]

What happens with the express payment option is that the customer gives the shipping information to PayPal and then PayPal gives you that information via the API (so you do not have to access it in two different places).

The reason PayPal Pro is attractive to people (at least to my client) is because it essentially offers a merchant account without all of the extra fees and other limits that are often imposed by merchant accounts.

This PayPal Express option is the drawback (I'm assuming it is their way of just trying to get more people to use PayPal - meaning when a customer tries to checkout of your store, it would look like using PayPal express would be the quickest way to checkout when in reality it is nearly an equivalent process it just depends whose server you are doing it on).

In the end the shop owner ends up with all of the information in their admin because PayPal passes the information on to shop owners.

As I noted, previously they dropped the rule that you do not have to have an accountless checkout option...which seems to be the previous reason why nobody wanted to integrate it into Zen Cart since it would require a complete rewriting of the checkout system to allow an accountless checkout system.

The hurdle that now remains IMO is where in the checkout process you can or have to place the express checkout button. Although as you can see through 24#Karat_fan and my discussion the terms are vague and contradictory.