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  1. #21
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    Default Re: v1.2.6 -> v1.3.5: What a B!TCH!

    Quote Originally Posted by ideadirect
    Perhaps, it would flag certain changed files and warn the user they will be replaced. Then a user could use winmerge on just those changed files.
    While not in the admin area, Zen does do this - it's called changelog and it can be found in the docs folder of every single Zen download.
    When the world gets in my face I say Have A Nice Day.
    * I DO Think and I HAVE BEEN Zenned - therefore, I AM * I donate - do you?
    Custom Templates and Zen Services CRS Designs, Inc.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: v1.2.6 -> v1.3.5: What a B!TCH!

    The mistake that I made here was failing to archive the database so that I could revert it to its 1.2.6 state.
    Sure it was, you didn't do the process as it has been told over and over again.

    I think the reality is this: if you're attempting to upgrade your site from 1.2.x -> 1.3.5, you're going to have to redesign your web site (unless you're using the default ZenCart template)........ That is to say, there should have been a 1.2.6a -> 1.2.6b security upgrade which affects only the code that is unsecure.
    There was a security update, and was 1.2.7 which still availabable for download; nobody made you upgrade, I have stores that still on that version, and I'm going to bring them as slow/fast the customers are ready and/or can afford it.

    Yes, ZenCart is free. Yes, ZenCart has done lots of good things for code that was derived from the stagnant osCommerce core. Until now I would not have hesitated to recommend it to others. But what I am observing is this: what started out as complex code is becoming increasingly complex as parts are split, then split again; code is deeply interwined in design elements; it seems that a lot of effort went into upgrading the default template from its original ugly orange design to a new CSS-based green design that is nearly as ugly (a waste of time); many plug-ins seem to no longer be compatible; and many of those plug-ins can no longer be found after the ZenCart site update.
    So you won't recommend it because is updated too much? or because you don't have the time to maintain updated? or because you don't want to hire a programmer or designer to customize it? or because you don't want to read the forums and see what modules/contributions have been updated to be compatible? or at least ask the members for help on something you don't know about? or doing a search?

    By changing the whole template system, you throw away the valuable efforts others have put into building custom templates (some for free). By drastically changing the way the code works, you throw away the valuable effort developers have put into coding plug-ins.
    Do you mean you made your template/s for others free? or are you complainting from other's point of view??? So what about the team? are they throwing away their past work too, or just the present?

    It is not my intention to anger anyone. This is simply my perspective from "in the trenches." I hope it is taken as constructive criticism and a helpful warning to anyone else attempting a similar upgrade.
    No I don't see that, what I can see is that you are very angry with yourself, since you didn't do anything right from the first beggining and then you come here to blame everyone for:
    • not being up to date with the versions
    • not being up to date with the change log
    • not being up to date with the template system changes
    • not doing proper backups
    • not keeping register of previous changes to the code
    • not re-creating a testing site before taking over your live site
    • not reading the compatibility of modules before upgrading
    • not reading the announces the team does


    Thanks for all the hard work ZenCart.
    Yes, thanks ZC team.
    IDEAS Girl
    IDEAS Creative Group
    = Your image... our business!
    My contributions: SophyBlue / Sophy Blue-Grey / Mistik / The Bookshelf / Dynamic Sideboxes

  3. #23
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    Default Re: v1.2.6 -> v1.3.5: What a B!TCH!

    When I first decided to use Zen Cart, it was for 2 reasons: (1) the people in the forum were so nice, friendly, and helpful, and (2) Zen Cart touted itself as "user-friendly" and being able to be set-up by someone with "basic computer skills."

    This thread has shocked me. I understand the frustration of the originator of the thread; I have considerably more than "basic" computer skills, yet many of the instructions are vague and the terminology is foreign to me. The author vented some of the frustration I often feel when I see instructions that I do not understand. However, I think his frustration was vented in a manner than insulted the ZC team, and that was unfortunate. Some of the responses seemed intended to make the author feel stupid; that is also unfortunate.

    I am a store owner. I run the physical store along with my wife, maintain our website, maintain the ZC online store, do the accounting, repair our building, vacuum the carpets, and mow the yard. There's not a lot of time for "playing" with Zen Cart. I'm on 1.2.4, not because I don't want to be up to date, but because I'm intimidated by the number of errors I see in the forums from people who have updated, and it's easier to say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." My online store provides part of my income; I cannot afford for it not to work. However, with the new security threats, I'm going to have to figure out how to upgrade. Even then, I'm concerned about the security issues and changes I'll have to make. I'm quite comfortable around XP, but I never knew what FTP was until I installed Zen Cart.

    We're all a little spoiled with Microsoft's one-button update. That's probably not feasible on a user-modified system like ZC. However, I'd ask everyone to remember that (a) not all of us are super-techs, and ZC says it's not a requirement to be one, and (b) the developers are spending a lot of their precious time for a freebie, and we should be most appreciative.

    In short, can't we all get along?
    Last edited by rayw1679; 15 Sep 2006 at 03:22 AM.
    Thanks,
    Ray

  4. #24
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    Default Re: v1.2.6 -> v1.3.5: What a B!TCH!

    This thread has shocked me.
    We all have.
    I am a store owner.
    That's understandable, but when you see this:
    Then I moved my client's template into the new directory and all hell broke loose!
    looks like this person is "making a living" or is billing for his/her service. When you are in business you have to keep your self up to date.
    There's not a lot of time for "playing" with Zen Cart.
    ...and that's why s/he has customers doing this for them.
    However, I'd ask everyone to remember that (a) not all of us are super-techs,
    Right, but we can ask in a nice way, instead of coming to the forums and blame others of your errors.
    In short, can't we all get along?
    Did you see the title of the thread? The OP came to vent here because s/he did something (many) thing/s wrong and don't want to take responsability for it.
    IDEAS Girl
    IDEAS Creative Group
    = Your image... our business!
    My contributions: SophyBlue / Sophy Blue-Grey / Mistik / The Bookshelf / Dynamic Sideboxes

  5. #25
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    May 2004
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    Default Re: v1.2.6 -> v1.3.5: What a B!TCH!

    Quote Originally Posted by rayw1679
    This thread has shocked me. I understand the frustration of the originator of the thread; I have considerably more than "basic" computer skills, yet many of the instructions are vague and the terminology is foreign to me. The author vented some of the frustration I often feel when I see instructions that I do not understand. However, I think his frustration was vented in a manner than insulted the ZC team, and that was unfortunate. Some of the responses seemed intended to make the author feel stupid; that is also unfortunate.
    Also unfortunate, you have that feeling. I don't think there are intentions to insult anyone in the replies in first place. But just the opposite, it respond to the ... .
    You can look around the forum for similar cases about upgrade trouble and/or all sorts. And you will find that how the others eager to provide helps. Some cases even start with similar wording in the post #1 of this thread.

    Obviously, the problem in the first post of this thread were somethings done wrong. Obviously, however, it blame to wrong direction and were doing wrong again.

    Quote Originally Posted by rayw1679
    I am a store owner. I run the physical store along with my wife, maintain our website, maintain the ZC online store, do the accounting, repair our building, vacuum the carpets, and mow the yard. There's not a lot of time for "playing" with Zen Cart. I'm on 1.2.4, not because I don't want to be up to date, but because I'm intimidated by the number of errors I see in the forums from people who have updated, and it's easier to say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." My online store provides part of my income; I cannot afford for it not to work. However, with the new security threats, I'm going to have to figure out how to upgrade. Even then, I'm concerned about the security issues and changes I'll have to make. I'm quite comfortable around XP, but I never knew what FTP was until I installed Zen Cart.
    Security both important for physical store and online store. Although there may not a case happen in before, you may also want add appropriate doors, locks, safe, burglar alarms, CCTV, security guard ... etc. Just in case ... !
    And update the software and apply security updates just like the every security routines for physical store. It provide more protections to your store. Like it or not, you should maintain it and it is part of the life, isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by rayw1679
    We're all a little spoiled with Microsoft's one-button update. That's probably not feasible on a user-modified system like ZC. However, I'd ask everyone to remember that (a) not all of us are super-techs, and ZC says it's not a requirement to be one, and (b) the developers are spending a lot of their precious time for a freebie, and we should be most appreciative.

    In short, can't we all get along?
    For your point (a):
    There are many volunteers in this community and they try to answer all the questions all day long. We may or can try to help back to them and help ourself. In the way by learning a bit more for a day, a week or even a month.

    Quote Originally Posted by rayw1679
    (b) the developers are spending a lot of their precious time for a freebie, and we should be most appreciative.

    In short, can't we all get along?
    This is true.

    .
    A New Starter again

  6. #26
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    Default Re: v1.2.6 -> v1.3.5: What a B!TCH!

    I may be wrong but I understood that the 1.2.7 update addressed many of the security issues in earlier 1.2 versions. And some further 1.2 modifications were suggested in the security mods thread for 1.3.

    I agree with much of the content in this thread regarding keeping up to date but 1.3 was a radical (albeit much improved) departure from 1.2 and as such was an enormously steep learning curve for many. I completely sympathise with those on 1.2.x who are reluctant to make the leap. However I would have thought an upgrade to 1.2.7 was essential as a minimum.

    In the end it comes down to a risk assessment. Perhaps someone could provide information as to how much of a security risk a store owner is running using 1.2.7 if all the recommendations are applied including renaming the admin folder, changing permissions on html_includes etc as described elsewhere?

  7. #27
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    Default Re: v1.2.6 -> v1.3.5: What a B!TCH!

    Kelvyn,
    My comments are slightly off-topic for this thread, but I'll mention them anyway...
    Quote Originally Posted by kelvyn
    I would certainly pay for a "loaded" version, pre-installed with what are fairly basic essentials - SEO stuff, those I mentioned, etc.
    You've said this over and over again.
    So why not hire someone to do it? Paying for someone to integrate a number of so-called "essentials" for each new release probably wouldn't be much different than "paying for a loaded version", except that then you'd have no work to do and would be out of touch with the code.




    ... and then you'd have nothing to beg for ...

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
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    Ohio
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    Default Re: v1.2.6 -> v1.3.5: What a B!TCH!

    I always thought Zen Cart was pretty darn loaded with each new release ...

    Does this mean kelvyn owes us a few pots of coffee?
    Linda McGrath
    If you have to think ... you haven't been zenned ...

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  9. #29
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    Jun 2006
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    Default Re: v1.2.6 -> v1.3.5: What a B!TCH!

    In any business, the owner is required to be familiar with the tools. Tools are useless without knowing how to use them.

    The same thing goes with zen cart. It's not the cure for cancer. It's not going to help you magically develop an online presence, gain customers, stay secure, automatically SEO itself and so on, so on.

    It is merely a tool that can be used to help you meet your objectives. There will always be more training. There will always be things to learn. But if you're using the tool, then you need to realize that learning, upadates and basic code knowledge is all part of it.

    If you don't want to deal with any of that, there are always people who are willing to do this for you and unlike zen cart, such services are not free.

    You get what you pay for, and that's the short end of it.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: v1.2.6 -> v1.3.5: What a B!TCH!

    Of course most of us knew this already, but it's something that indeed is very useful to know for new Zen Cart users:
    Quote Originally Posted by zforrest
    The same thing goes with zen cart. .... It's not going to help you magically ...... stay secure.... and so on, so on.

 

 
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