v1.3.7 Cannot Seem to Add Up Correctly!!

[schoolboy]

Kevin...

Our products in our store are Excl Vat (we sell to trade clients) and vat is ADDED at checkout.

Try putting your POSTAGE in order_total BELOW the discount coupon.

My sort order in OT is:-

ot_coupon = 180
ot_loworderfee = 150
ot_shipping = 200
ot_subtotal = 100
ot_tax = 300
ot_total = 999

Our discount coupons apply to products we sell, not the shipping which is paid direct to the carrier. If you buy a table in a furniture shop for £100, and the storekeeper discounts it by 10%, you pay him £90 for the table.

He then offers to deliver it for you for £20. (We argue that this is not entitled to the discount - only the product is discounted). But shipping is a vattable SERVICE, so must be included in vat calc.

You pay him:-

Table = 100
10% = -10
SUB tl = 90

Ship = 20

SubTotal = 110 (pre Vat)

Vat = 19.25

TOTAL = 129.25 (CORRECT)

For some strange reason, this gives the correct vat, even when we have multiple products in the cart, store-wide discount coupons, product-specific discount coupons (ie: all variables still come out with correct vat)

[kjedwards]

Hi Schoolboy

I will have a try at what you suggest but Zen is calulating correct and applying the discount to just the order sub total its just the vat it is getting wrong.

I don't understand how Zen calcs tax, but applying the discount should be real easy - its just the same discount applied to the tax as to the net order sub total.

VAT on postage is a tricky issue and depends on what you charge and who delivers. It is a while since I last looked into this and so may not be now correct but it used to be that Royal Mail charges were zero rated and so if you only sent by Royal Mail and only charged the Royal Mail postage cost to clients then strictly speaking vat is chargable at 0%. Any handling and packaging charge would though be at 17.5%.

I know that many businesses do charge vat on postage at 17.5% but in our case we are setting up a new site selling jewellery items and the postage is small compared to the item cost. We don't want to offer free postage but will be sending at or below the actual postage cost and sending by Royal Mail.

Personally I am loathed to give the VAT Man any more than due and since we cannot reclaim 17.5% for Royal Mail postage I don't see why we should give him 17.5%. Those 'little' 17.5%'s add up. I wish I could receive 17.5% off every Royal Mail postage cost.

Yours

Kevin

[Ryk]

So what you're saying is

Net Price=100
VAT=17.5%
Gross Price=117.5

Discount given of 10% should be applied to Net Price therefore

Discounted Net Price = 90
[email protected]%= 15.75
Gross Price=105.75

So all discounts need to be applied before the tax calculation? This is how it displays in the store I'm working on with prices shown including VAT.

Sub-Total: 117.50
Free Shipping Options (Free Shipping):£0.00
Group Discount (10%) :-£11.75
includes tax component @ 17.5% of:£17.50
Total:£105.75

This is CORRECT - and which is why I was happy with Scott's fix....but


without VAT shown

Sub-Total:£100.00
Free Shipping Options (Free Shipping):£0.00
Group Discount (10%): -£11.75 should be 10.00
VAT @ 17.5%:£15.75
Total:£104.00

This is WRONG - but it is just the application of the Group Discount which is wrong and is being applied to the gross figure

[kjedwards]

So all discounts need to be applied before the tax calculation? This is how it displays in the store I'm working on with prices shown including VAT.

Sub-Total: 117.50
Free Shipping Options (Free Shipping):£0.00
Group Discount (10%) :-£11.75
includes tax component @ 17.5% of:£17.50
Total:£105.75

This is CORRECT - and which is why I was happy with Scott's fix....but

Hi

Doesn't look correct to me. The VAT of £17.50 is 17.5% on £100 you would need 17.5% on the discounted £90 ie £15.75.

If the final cost to the customer is £105.75 then it is that amount that includes the 17.5% VAT. So VAT should be 105.75 - (105.75/1.175) = £15.75.

So the £17.50 VAT in your example is only correct if you set it up not to re-calculate tax after discount.

Kevin

[Ryk]

The price is ex vat is 100
With VAT is 117.5 therefore the VAT component is 17.50

The end result displayed of £105.75 was correct - but I see what you're getting at.

[swguy]

I'm working on with prices shown including VAT.
...

This is CORRECT - and which is why I was happy with Scott's fix....but


without VAT shown

Sub-Total:£100.00
Free Shipping Options (Free Shipping):£0.00
Group Discount (10%): -£11.75 should be 10.00
VAT @ 17.5%:£15.75
Total:£104.00

This is WRONG - but it is just the application of the Group Discount which is wrong and is being applied to the gross figure

Rick: The fix for this is to go into Modules->Order Totals->Group discounts and
set include tax = false. This way your discount will be 10.00.

Scott

[Ryk]

Of course! Must have more caffeine!

That certainly works for me in both cases (show prices with/without tax)

[swguy]

I don't understand how Zen calcs tax, but applying the discount should be real easy - its just the same discount applied to the tax as to the net order sub total.

This would seem true at first glance, but it's not. Some people were adding taxable and non-taxable items in the same cart, and complaining that the discount reduced taxes by too much.

Compare ot_group_discount in every version going back to 1.3.0, and you'll see how much fine tuning has been done. It's a much more difficult problem to solve than you might think.

The good news is that Dr. Byte has mentioned that a re-work is in store for this area. :)

Scott

[kjedwards]

This would seem true at first glance, but it's not. Some people were adding taxable and non-taxable items in the same cart, and complaining that the discount reduced taxes by too much.

Compare ot_group_discount in every version going back to 1.3.0, and you'll see how much fine tuning has been done. It's a much more difficult problem to solve than you might think.

The good news is that Dr. Byte has mentioned that a re-work is in store for this area. :)

Scott

Hi Scott

I have tried to follow the PHP code and to be truthful find the tax calculation impossible to follow. But if it keeps a running total then multiplying that by the discount amount must be correct - reducing taxable goods by say 10% would also mean that the tax due on taxable goods would also be reduced by 10%. Non taxable goods would also go down 10% but would not effect tax because they are not taxable. The problem may arise in tax regimes where tax has to be applied before any discounts but in the UK it is after discounts.

There are many shopping carts out there and I am sure many work ok for VAT, so I am a little perplexed as to why it has taken Zen so many versions and still has to solve which must be a rather essential requirement for many potential users.

I guess the only solution would be to hide VAT altogether and do seperate invoicing

Yours

Kevin

[swguy]

Kevin, there are lots of shops in the UK that have made this work. I see that you're fairly new to this venture; spend a little time here before you give up on ZenCart. If you were to post a question asking for input from UK people using group discounts (or indeed, any VAT-obligated shopowner using any order total discounting module), I'm sure you'd get some suggestions that would work for you.

Good luck,
Scott