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  1. #1
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    Default Creating non "standard" zen cart sites.

    How's it going? I'm new to the forum and to Zen Cart ( firs heard about the cart a couple years ago and just now decided to give it a try) and have already been blown away by the sense of community and the power of this program... Through searching the forum I've found great tips on the program itself, installing some mods for wholesale and payment modules, and many other great uses for zen cart itself...

    One area I am having trouble with is where to begin on totally overhauling Zen Cart to create a unique, non standard store front... Every thread on Zen Cart design always mentions the customizing options of Zen Cart and usually mentions one site in particular (the incredible mitea.com) but no real solutions on how that look and complete level of customization is achieved... I am not even sure what version of Zen that site uses since it's been around for years, but what steps should be taken to do something like this?

    Reading a lot of template discussion threads, that consensus seems to be in favor of creating templates that keep the functionality of zen and availability of side boxes and breadcrumbs there as possibilities which in turn hinders some design..

    What if you and your clients are 100 percent sure you don't want a currency box or any other side boxes and just want an amazing presentation for your particular store and won't be providing it as a template to other users.. Does anyone have any advice or links to working examples of whipping zen into shape?

    mitea.com is amazing.. I've seen another coffee store by a great contributor to the site and the design community who's name escapes me at this time.. Shirtsandladders.com is pretty much everything I am looking for yet it appears to be entirely table based leading me to believe it's an old version of Zen Cart.. the way it uses it's product display and switchable photos is great, something like I want to do, but is it even possible with the new version of Zen?

    Sorry to be long winded, but I figured a lot of designers might share this question and the forum would be a great source of info for doing something different with the Zen Cart stores if you don't need some of the functionality of the columns and side boxes... Thanks for your time and look forward to being a more active member!

    Jonathan

    p.s. if anyone has found a fix to the "double legend" bug in the Dual Pricing Cart mod I'd love to hear it!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Creating non "standard" zen cart sites.

    Hi Jonathan -

    Anything and everything is possible with Zen Cart. While the newest version only has one layout table, the rest is <div> based. You only have to let your imagination run free.

    What if you and your clients are 100 percent sure you don't want a currency box or any other side boxes and just want an amazing presentation for your particular store and won't be providing it as a template to other users
    Anything you do not want can either be turned off in the admin, disabled with CSS, or simply not used in your custom template override.

    Caution: Even though your client may insist they are never going to use featureX - it should be available. I had an instance of this very problem yesterday and had to spend an hour or so changing some of the custom functionality I designed for a client even though early on and throughout the process of building their site I asked if they were sure they were never going to use the page I had to fix yesterday.
    Please do not PM for support issues: a private solution doesn't benefit the community.

    Be careful with unsolicited advice via email or PM - Make sure the person you are talking to is a reliable source.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Creating non "standard" zen cart sites.

    The big deal about keeping all of Zen Cart's standard functionality only strictly applies to templates for public distribution (either paid or free); if you are building one for yourself, feel free to chop & channel as much as you want! Of course, keeping any ability you don't *need* to disable is always a wise move.

    My design concept required the header and right sidebar to go away, and three columns without a header seems rather strange, so I have not only hard-code disabled header and right sidebar, but put some header functions in the left sidebar. Plenty of people have disabled both sidebars and handle all nav etc. in the header.

    I am currently reading a new book, _The Principles of Beautiful Web Design_ by Jason Beaird, which gives a good process starting with a blank piece of paper gridded off into thirds. No web tech considerations at all until you have an idea of what you would like to see. Doing something like this would free a lot of people from stock layouts.

    If you have any particular layout concepts you would like to translate into ZC, please ask.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Creating non "standard" zen cart sites.

    First off let me say thanks so much for the positive replies. Coming from two people who's posts I have encountered and learned a lot from through various searches and reading of the forum I feel very honored that you'd take the time to answer my somewhat newbie questions..


    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    Hi Jonathan -

    Anything and everything is possible with Zen Cart. While the newest version only has one layout table, the rest is <div> based. You only have to let your imagination run free.
    Anything you do not want can either be turned off in the admin, disabled with CSS, or simply not used in your custom template override.

    Kim, I guess what really needs to happen is I need to start digging further into the code.. I know in the admin you can turn virtually everything on and off and I knbow there are countless tutorials on removing side bars etc.. I guess I need to design a layout and start digging..

    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post

    Caution: Even though your client may insist they are never going to use featureX - it should be available. I had an instance of this very problem yesterday and had to spend an hour or so changing some of the custom functionality I designed for a client even though early on and throughout the process of building their site I asked if they were sure they were never going to use the page I had to fix yesterday.
    I definitely am in agreement with you on not hard coding any features out.. Clients tend to change their mind like the wind these days and the last thing I want is have to go back and correct my own mistakes I was forced to make at their request!;)

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Creating non "standard" zen cart sites.

    Again I want to say thanks for the reply.. I've learned a lot from both yours and Kim's post and feel honored to have you take the time to respond and share some insight.

    Quote Originally Posted by gjh42 View Post
    The big deal about keeping all of Zen Cart's standard functionality only strictly applies to templates for public distribution (either paid or free); if you are building one for yourself, feel free to chop & channel as much as you want! Of course, keeping any ability you don't *need* to disable is always a wise move.
    Definitely.. I would never release anything for public distribution that crippled functionality of the site.. I've read the Template Monster thread (among others) and agree 100 percent in regards to how confusing and detrimental simply removing features could be! I just know that for my own personal design and visual goals of clients non standard appearance out weighs some functionality of certain features.

    Quote Originally Posted by gjh42 View Post
    My design concept required the header and right sidebar to go away, and three columns without a header seems rather strange, so I have not only hard-code disabled header and right sidebar, but put some header functions in the left sidebar. Plenty of people have disabled both sidebars and handle all nav etc. in the header.
    That's pretty much what I am looking to do.. Remove sidebars.. Handle navigation in the header... So pretty much keeping a header, a footer, and a big content area to display not only the store, but also a tiny bit of content, news updates and the like I assume using EZ Pages.. I haven't delved that far yet because I wanted to make sure Zen Cart was the right program but the more I read the more I know it is...

    Quote Originally Posted by gjh42 View Post

    I am currently reading a new book, _The Principles of Beautiful Web Design_ by Jason Beaird, which gives a good process starting with a blank piece of paper gridded off into thirds. No web tech considerations at all until you have an idea of what you would like to see. Doing something like this would free a lot of people from stock layouts.
    Sounds like a great read.. That's somewhat how I work in regards to standard web design.. I create how I want the design to look and fucntion then go about solving the problem of making it work.. It does at first glance appear backwards to try and find code to make a layout work, but I find it refreshing in the since that every site you create you will face different challenges that push your limits as a coder because you're simply not sticking to what you presently know will work for you. That's also what I want to do with Zen.. Maintain the incredible functionality of a well designed shopping cart capable of wholesale orders, coupons, SSL, and inventory management while making it seemlessly integrate into a non standard design.. I guess I have my work cut out for me!;)


    Quote Originally Posted by gjh42 View Post
    If you have any particular layout concepts you would like to translate into ZC, please ask.
    I don't have a design yet, but that's the easy part.. I guess i'm looking for a header with all nav (individual links to store, home news etc, using images) possibly an e-mail list form, and the log in, home, view cart, and check out buttons positioned in the header as well... the footer reserved for text links, copy right info etc.. the main content feature I would like to be able to have a large columned layout.. maybe 4-5 products in a row.. the actual product page I would like the ability to swap images from thumbnails without loading a larger image in a new window like on shirtsandladders.com and just have a clean over all look...

    After getting advice from you and Kim I think the majority of my design issues might be easier than I anticipate.. The actual coding of the features in the header with the log in and view cart could be a problem.. what do you think?

    Also do you know anything about possibly using a random background script for the header? Thanks again for all your time and help...

    Jonathan

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Creating non "standard" zen cart sites.

    The actual coding of the features in the header with the log in and view cart could be a problem.. what do you think?
    I think you will be surprised. There is a loign box and shopping cart box that can easily be added to the header. In fact there are already dynamic links to both of the full pages for those function in the header, adding images to them would be super simple.
    Please do not PM for support issues: a private solution doesn't benefit the community.

    Be careful with unsolicited advice via email or PM - Make sure the person you are talking to is a reliable source.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Creating non "standard" zen cart sites.

    To expand on Kim's post, the header navbar (showing Home & Login) will also show links for Shopping Cart, Checkout, My Account and Logout when appropriate.

    The Categories-Tabs menu shows all the main categories, and there is at least one mod in Downloads for full CSS dropdown functionality for this.

    The EZ-Pages header menu will show links to additional pages you create, and can show any other links you set up as well.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Creating non "standard" zen cart sites.

    thanks to both of you for your encouragement and help! i am going to to do the simplest version graphically of what i'd like to see in a shopping cart and try and make it work.. wish me luck.. i am sure i'll be back with more questions soon haha!

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Creating non "standard" zen cart sites.

    I've personally found adding menu links in the header to be one of the easier things I've ever done in template customization. *LOL*
    Lesli in SW Florida ~ writer, teacher, and dodging hurricanes!

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Creating non "standard" zen cart sites.

    I think the main thing now is to get down and dirty with Zen Cart and start playing with it to see if I can make it happen.. I guess my main question with this thread was "Can it be done" haha... I now know that it can.. Thanks for all the help... Not sure if i'll be doing anything like mitea.com or shirtsandladders.com, but hopefully I can come up with something non standard enough! I am sure i will be back with specifics in about .5 seconds now that my trial design is finished.. Wish me luck!

 

 
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