Trying to work out how long it'll take

[sheepshank]

Hi. I'm new to ZenCart but I've finally got my head round the basics. I need to quote a client for redesigning his shop - just the design. I'm going to base every page on the same look. I don't know how complex this thing is yet, but I need to work out timings, and I've spent a good number of unpaid hours on this so far.

My question is - if I mess with the stylesheet until the front page is looking good, how much extra work will it be to get every single other page looking good? Will I be half way there? 80% Roughly?! I'm talking basics - no language changes etc.

TIA

Mike

[fairestcape]

It's impossible to answer your question accurately as the layout is governed by:-

CSS
Template choice
Settings (switches) in the admin panel
Potentially some alterations to php code.

Depending on what your client wants, the relative input on each of these variables will be different.

If you are working on a pretty standard template (based on "classic" for example), then the majority of design settings are going to be in:-

Admin panel "switches"
Stylesheets

Additionally, how well do you know zencart's structure? Some people take days to discover and execute a small change to the stylesheet. (Just read this forum for thousands of examples of that!) Other people do it in a couple of seconds. If you charge by the hour, this "limitation of knowledge" can have a severe influence on what it will cost to make changes.

[fairestcape]

Additionally, it is unreasonable to charge your client for your "training"...

Proficiency comes through learning and through experience, and the cost for that (in time and perhaps some money) is for your account - not your customer's!

[sheepshank]

Thanks.

I'm not planning to charge the client for 'training time', but he has a right to know in advance how much it will cost him. And I have a right to charge him a reasonable amount for my working time.

Note that I'm not asking 'how long will it take me to do the job?' I'm asking 'how much time, as a percentage of effort already put in, does it take to sort out all other pages once the front page is styled?' Based on the efforts of someone who knows the system.

I don't yet know the depth of this - what I have to change for every single product page, shopping cart, god knows what else; but I can take a stab at guessing for the front page. Then base my timings on that.

If it's an unreasonable question, fair enough.

[fairestcape]

Once you have selected a template, the structure is consistent throughout the site, and applies to every page. (unless you have invoked an over-ride of some sort).

A standard ZC site consists of:-

A Header component
A Left Column component
A Centre Column component
A Right Column component
A Footer component

You are not working with HTML here - each "web page" is compiled "on the fly". It is "cobbled together" by the PHP and the contents and settings in the database - depending on what the visitor to the site "requests" the site to "do". The contents and relative display of each of the 5 standard "components" (see above), is controlled by the interactivity between a complex and intricate set of code, the database, stylesheet(s) and switches.

So, if you want your sidebox headings to be "dark blue", then you alter your CSS accordingly (takes 10 seconds) - and these changes are SITE-WIDE.

However, you will discover that there are many ways to over-ride a site-wide setting. Is is possible, for example, to have the sidebox headers a different colour depending on what PRODUCT CATEGORY is on display. (Category-specific stylesheets achieve this...)

There are literally thousands of variables at your disposal. Only time and experience will help your knowledge-base grow.

[fairestcape]

It will be useful to you to do a bit of reading up about DYNAMIC CONTENT websites. Like I was some years ago, you seem to be locked into a "static HTML" mind-set.

Right now, you're probably thinking - "I've got to build a site with 10,000 products - each one needs its own "web page" ! How long will this take me???"

Well, I "built" a zencart shop with about 6,000 products in under 10 hours last year. I managed this because the client had a good database of product info, perfect images, and a clear-cut idea of how they wanted the site to look.

We started with the basic install of ZC onto the host server in the morning, and by 9 o'clock that night the site was ready - 6,000 products and all...

[sheepshank]

Thanks again!

The dynamic content stuff I understand. Well I don't know PHP but I'm happy with the theory, no problems. And I have a design that the client's happy with, and my own CSS template for that design, which I've kept simple and tried to base around the left/right column ZC policy. All this unpaid so far, just to see if I'll be able to do it.

The intention is to edit (the overridden) stylesheet.css so it matches the design I have. Should be able to manage that. But who knows what traps await...

I wasn't thinking of the need for a page for each product - more the question of how much more needs doing once stylesheet.css is made good for my basic 'front' design. Eg shopping cart page, product listings, checkout, individual products, buttons, forms etc etc.

Your reply seems to suggest that most of the work is done in stylesheet.css, and there aren't a million other tweakable nightmares, which is great news.

Cheers.

[fairestcape]

It's a good idea to have a "Test Shop" installed somewhere, so that you can try things out first, before you "wreak potential havoc" on your client's store .

This is easy to set up... Just create a separate database and do a ZC install in a SUB-directory of your existing host.

If your host is to miserly to allow you more than one database, you can do an install using the database "prefix" function, but that is not advised if your second install is for the purpose of testing and training.

Rather create a completely separate database...

Also, when you EDIT a file, ALWAYS first make a back-up (copy) of the original. It is surprising how many people go "bull in a china shop" with the code files, and then when their webshop falls over, can't remember what or how they changed things. If you have a backup of an original file (including the css files), then you simply invoke the original again, while you pick apart your edited version to see where you went wrong.

When I edit a "php" file, I first copy it to my hard drive, then edit it and save it on my hard drive.

I then upload it back to the server into the applicable "over-ride" folder.

If a copy of that file already exists in the over-ride folder, I re-name that file by giving it a different file extension, eg:

tpl_main_page.php

would be re-named:

tpl_main_page.OLD

... only then do I FTP the edited version of tpl_main_page.php .

[sheepshank]

OK, I'll follow that advice. Thanks again.

Mike