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  1. #11
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    Default Re: How to force html with every email

    Quote Originally Posted by linnx View Post
    I have a need to send html email.
    You are confusing 'need' with 'want'.

    There is never a *need* for anyone to send HTML emails, ever.

    A lot of people *want* to send (and even recieve) HTML emails because they would rather have 'pretty pictures' than 'useful content'.

    Question1. What is the benefit of sending an HTML email rather than a link to an HTML page?

    Question2. What are the disadvantages of sending an HTML email rather than a link to an HTML page?

    If you answer honestly and accurately, it will become quite apparent that there are far more dis-advantages to HTML Emails than there are advantages.

    Cheers
    Rod

  2. #12
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    Default Re: How to force html with every email

    RodG has not contributed anything to this thread other than to be a troll. But we all know that trolls are all over the place.

    Does that mean I wont come onto the Zen Cart forum to ask a question? No, not at all. I know there are trolls lurking behind every corner.

    The purpose of this thread was to find a solution to a problem. Hopefully someone will be able to make use of the information, and if not, they can at least learn how Zen Cart works.

    I did not come here to ask if I should or should not do something, I asked for a solution to a problem. A problem which has now been fixed!

  3. #13
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    Default Re: How to force html with every email

    Quote Originally Posted by RodG View Post
    Your arguments are invalid.

    What is this? My arguments are invalid... your right, there is never a time when its the right thing to do. RodG hath said it, so shall it be written.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: How to force html with every email

    Quote Originally Posted by RodG View Post
    Question1. What is the benefit of sending an HTML email rather than a link to an HTML page?

    Question2. What are the disadvantages of sending an HTML email rather than a link to an HTML page?

    If you answer honestly and accurately, it will become quite apparent that there are far more dis-advantages to HTML Emails than there are advantages.

    Question 1. What is the benefit of shooting someone inside your home?

    Question 2. What are the disadvantages of shooting someone inside your home?

    If you answer honestly and accurately, it will become quite apparent that there are far more dis-advantages to shooting someone inside your home than there are advantages.... AND yet there is a time when even something so drastic is preferred to the alternative.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: How to force html with every email

    Quote Originally Posted by gingabox View Post
    Rod, if HTML emails go directly to your spam box, what are you complaining about, you would never see it anyway, right?
    .
    That's right.
    BTW, I'm NOT complaining, I'm responding to a person that is hellbent on alienating many of his/her customers.

    Quote Originally Posted by gingabox View Post
    HTML emails account for 99% of viruses, ergo, we shouldn't use them?
    If people wish to partake in unsafe practices that is their choice, but at the same time it would be amiss if us older (and wiser) folk didn't take the time to warn of the potential dangers.

    Quote Originally Posted by gingabox View Post
    With that logic we should have outlawed a whole range of things that can be used to ill gain,
    Unsafe sax causes births, deaths and lots of nasty things in between. It would be foolish to try to outlaw it though, so all we can do is *try* to educate people.

    Whether people accept the education is another story, but please don't stone us for at least trying.

    Quote Originally Posted by gingabox View Post
    and yet we don't because there is a time and place for them. I should stop walking across the street because cars cause the majority of injuries when doing so, eh? That cuts McDs out too.
    One would assume that you were taught to look both ways before crossing though (even at a pedestrian crossing).

    It is sad, but people are NOT being taught about the dangers of HTML emails. Seriously, can YOU list all of the different ways that HTML can cause people problems.

    Doesn't it strike you as 'strange' that Anti-Virus companies make a small fortune selling their wares when for the most part the majority of people would be better protected *without* such software if they were taught to simply discard HTML emails?

    To me, this simply doesn't make any sense, and putting it bluntly, it all boils down to a lack of knowledge.

    Quote Originally Posted by gingabox View Post
    As I said, it might not be right for Rod's customers but it might be right for linnx's,
    In other words, neither you, not linnix actually give a damn about your customers security... you consider this to be their responsibilty and theirs alone. Neither of you are even willing to inform them of the possible dangers they face.

    This is either unconscionable, or just plain ignorant. Your choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by gingabox View Post
    its about judging the situation rightly, not about imposing some universal standard of web ethics that others including Rod have decided to adopt.
    As I stated earlier, I believe in safe networking practices. This not only defines what I do, but because I consider myself a responsible adult I feel it to be my duty to inform others of the dangers. Sure, I can't force people to follow my recommendations, just as the medicos can't force people to have safe sax, but would you actually *argue* the point with a medico? No, of course not, the medico has years of training and experience behind them.
    Guess what. I have years of experience and training behind me too, so what makes you think your views are going to be more valid than mine?

    All being well, this thread will be indexed by Google within a few hours, and guess what, If just *one* person reads this and says to themselves 'hey, this guy actually knows something that could be good for me, and save me $$$ to boot', and then proceeds to dump all HTML's into a spam folder then I'll be just as happy as the old fashioned medico that saves just one person from contracting a crippling or life threatening disease.

    Enuff said?

    Cheers
    Rod

  6. #16
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    Default Re: How to force html with every email

    Quote Originally Posted by gingabox View Post
    Question 1. What is the benefit of shooting someone inside your home?
    1. It is easier to claim self defense.
    2. You are not likely to have any witnesses to testify against you.
    3. You have more chance of moving and/or hiding the body without being detected.
    4. You probably have more choice of guns at home.
    5. You don't have to wait around in the cold waiting for the police to show (assuming you report it)

    Quote Originally Posted by gingabox View Post
    Question 2. What are the disadvantages of shooting someone inside your home?
    1. It can be really hard to get rid of the bloodstains
    2. There is likely to be DNA evidence of the victim (should you dispose of the body).

    Quote Originally Posted by gingabox View Post
    If you answer honestly and accurately, it will become quite apparent that there are far more dis-advantages to shooting someone inside your home than there are advantages
    That not what my lists shows. What have I overlooked?

    Cheers
    Rod

  7. #17
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    Default Re: How to force html with every email

    Quote Originally Posted by gingabox View Post
    Stevesh, I had to chime in here, because you are saying that it doesn't make sense for customers to complain about getting text emails, yet you would complain about receiving HTML emails?
    Um, no. What I said was that it doesn't make sense for a customer to complain about receiving plain-text emails from an ecommerce site, receive instructions on how to change that option from the ecommerce site, then not make that change, continuing to complain instead.. I don't believe that has ever happened.

    I would never complain about a website not honoring my email format choice. I just wouldn't return to that site again.

    The point I was making in my first post is that it really doesn't matter what your 'client base' is, or what you want to send them. If you offer a choice (as the OP did/does) you have an ethical responsibility to honor that choice, now and going forward.

    As for my (and RodG's) replies not being relevant, I'll disagree. This forum isn't a Knowledge Base with bots presenting boilerplate 'answers' to questions. It's a community, and if you ask a question about how to do something we don't think is a good idea, we'll say so. I'm thinking you should appreciate that.

    As an example, I wouldn't tell a Zenner how to find or install a manual credit card processing mod, either.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: How to force html with every email

    Quote Originally Posted by RodG View Post
    That's right.
    BTW, I'm NOT complaining, I'm responding to a person that is hellbent on alienating many of his/her customers.
    You assume he will alienate his customers, but you don't even know what his customer base is and are making assumptions that are simply based on your adopted standards and may not reflect accurately his situation. And you know that, whether you admit it or not.



    Quote Originally Posted by RodG View Post
    If people wish to partake in unsafe practices that is their choice, but at the same time it would be amiss if us older (and wiser) folk didn't take the time to warn of the potential dangers.
    Nor do I fault anyone for warning, it is the way in which you have done it, both rudely and smugly because they don't hold to your same values... sounds a bit tyrannical.



    Quote Originally Posted by RodG View Post
    Unsafe sax causes births, deaths and lots of nasty things in between. It would be foolish to try to outlaw it though, so all we can do is *try* to educate people.
    Tis true, it does cause those things, yet if you restrict your "saxing" within a monogamous relationship, the nasty things are also nill, without the need for additional protective measures. Again, knowing your partner is analogous to knowing your customers, right and wrong times etc.




    Quote Originally Posted by RodG View Post
    One would assume that you were taught to look both ways before crossing though (even at a pedestrian crossing).
    As I said, its using common sense, knowing the situation. Looking both ways doesn't lead me to not cross, it leads them to cross at the right time and place.


    Quote Originally Posted by RodG View Post
    It is sad, but people are NOT being taught about the dangers of HTML emails. Seriously, can YOU list all of the different ways that HTML can cause people problems.
    Yes, and I can also list all the dangers inherent in the rest of the web, and yet here we are. Whats the difference between what you are doing and the fear mongers who want to get everyone in a tizzy?


    Quote Originally Posted by RodG View Post
    Doesn't it strike you as 'strange' that Anti-Virus companies make a small fortune selling their wares when for the most part the majority of people would be better protected *without* such software if they were taught to simply discard HTML emails?
    A: No it doesn't strike me as odd because the root cause is the people writing malicious code, not HTML email.
    B: Getting rid of HTML email doesn't render you invincible on the web. If you download anything, if you watch videos, if you surf to the wrong site, you are at risk... so anti-virus companies will be gainfully employed until shady people stop writing malicious code.
    C: You are giving a false impression of security when you say that discarding HTML mail they can just discard the anti-malware, just as you are when you say "safe sax"... bagging it still has risks and people shouldn't discard HTML emails and think they have no need for virus protection. Yet I don't see you warning anyone about that, you just advised people to do something very risky, is that "unconscionable, or just plain ignorant"?



    Quote Originally Posted by RodG View Post
    In other words, neither you, not linnix actually give a damn about your customers security... you consider this to be their responsibilty and theirs alone. Neither of you are even willing to inform them of the possible dangers they face.
    That is a false dichotomy RodG. To say that we don't "give a damn about" our customers security because we send an HTML mail from a clean source makes as much sense as saying that you don't give a damn about your customers because you don't warm them of the dangers they face on the rest of the web. Do you do that when you sell a widget? You send a text email warning them of all the malicious sites, embedded trojans and the like? If your company sells candles lets say, then I am sure you wouldn't, yet if you sell security services, then you would, why are companies now responsible for educating customers on things that are unrelated to the products they sell?


    Quote Originally Posted by RodG View Post
    This is either unconscionable, or just plain ignorant. Your choice.
    As are half your smug, "holier than thou" comments, read above.

    Quote Originally Posted by RodG View Post
    Sure, I can't force people to follow my recommendations, just as the medicos can't force people to have safe sax, but would you actually *argue* the point with a medico? No, of course not, the medico has years of training and experience behind them.
    Yes, actually I would argue the point if he was saying that there were never a time and place for unprotected "sax" (as you say for sending HTML email)... there is a time and place for it .


    Quote Originally Posted by RodG View Post
    Guess what. I have years of experience and training behind me too, so what makes you think your views are going to be more valid than mine?
    Maybe because you aren't the only one that has years of experience and training... guess what, 9 out of 10 doctors disagree on a wide variety of remedies. Doesn't mean you are wrong, but it doesn't mean you are always right either.


    Quote Originally Posted by RodG View Post
    All being well, this thread will be indexed by Google within a few hours, and guess what, If just *one* person reads this and says to themselves 'hey, this guy actually knows something that could be good for me, and save me $$$ to boot', and then proceeds to dump all HTML's into a spam folder then I'll be just as happy as the old fashioned medico that saves just one person from contracting a crippling or life threatening disease.
    And if just *one* person does that, great on ya, freedom is grand... but if just *one* reads this and says to themselves "hey, why am I letting what amounts to online terrorism take away from what would benefit me... I should just use common sense and protect myself with valid anti-malware, SPAM filters and not open email from suspicious addresses instead of throwing the baby out with the bath water and putting myself at risk" then I will be just as happy as the old fashioned vet who fought to protect people's freedoms knowing full well that everyone of them was one day going to die of a crippling and life threatening disease - everyone does at the end of their lives don't they...

    But as it was said in Braveheart "every man dies, but not every man truly lives"

    Quote Originally Posted by RodG View Post
    Enuff said?
    Now it is, there are differences of opinion on things such as this, people can choose to go the cautious totalitarian route, or the cautious libertarian route... both have risks, both have benefits, weigh them and proceed onward.


    linnix, glad you got it taken care of and I am sure someone will benefit from the code you shared.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: How to force html with every email

    One thing seems to be being ignored here. You say the majority (even if it's the "vast majority") of your customers want HTML e-mail. Has ANYONE ever knowingly selected text only on your site? If so, you are going against their explicit wishes and it is possible that your HTML e-mails will not display properly in their inbox depending on their mail client. You are eliminating all choice for them. Think about that one...
    Last edited by gjh42; 16 Feb 2012 at 04:19 PM.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: How to force html with every email

    If you think (most of) your old customers would have selected HTML, it would be possible to change their settings in the database (I don't know exactly how, and wouldn't try to tell you if I did) and leave current and new customers the freedom to receive your e-mails in their preferred format.

 

 
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