Vanishing Attributes

Hello I'm very new to zen and I have a question about a recent problem I have been having. I co own a digital scrap store, with downloadable products, and the past two weeks various attributes have been vanishing from their products. I have read countless threads about this and yet no one has any actual answers, just more questions and it seems no one is understanding just what it is we scrap store owners keep having issues with. Out of nowhere, a customer will place an order then send an email sayig there were no download buttons for their order, we'll check, and sure enough that product has no attributes attached, when it did the day before....I know this, because I have actually loaded my own shop with over 100 digital products, and I know for a fact my attributes are written correctly, no spaces, no illegal characters, no bad files..so please don't tell me to check those...I already have and have fixed them three times in the last two weeks...anyway, as I said, you click on the A and there it is, attributes, none...and you go to the product itself in admin and the attribute lists are there, as in download 1, download 2, download, 3 etc..but all are blank..and in all the cases, the attribute boxes themselves have mulitpied to seven lines! Example, the designer has a tagger sized kit for sale, linked in her attributes as mjd_cute_kitty.zip so her product is assigned her designer name in her folder, she'll be say Missy Jo Designs so her attributes will be listed as missyjodesigns/mjd_cute_kitty.zip she'll then copy that product into the tagger category, where it shows under her designer name, the tagger scraps category, as well as any other relevant category her kit fits into, and it has one attribute...well three days later, that attribute goes missing, NONE...and when you edit her attributes to fix it, she'll have seven attributes, all blank of course...and the funny thing is, this will happen randomly to maybe every third product, and sometimes it skips a whole page of products on admin, and the next page with have every other one missing and it only happens to the scrap kits...not the commercial use templates or other products, only to the scrap kits. I have 45 designers in my shoppe....and twice this week we have already had to fix hundreds of attributes...and yet not one person here can tell me or any other store owner why this is happening and how to fix it! As I said, I am new to store owning, but not new to using zen, so I kow for a fact my own products are linked correctly, so why does this keep happening? All of my designers have ftp access and their own folders that their products go into, and then are copied from there to other categories that pertain to their product. And before you ask, all the files are still in the ftp, we don't all use filezilla, I use coreftp pro, this isn't happening to new products only, it is happening to old products as well, things that were uploaded two weeks ago, and things uploaded last night..all vanishing randomly. I'm trying to provide the basics asked for, as well as trying to fully explain the problem we're having, since it seems many have been having this isue, surely someone knows what is causing it and how to fix it. We have Zen Cart 1.3.8a
Patch: 1::
Database Patch Level: 1.3.8

We've not yet upgraded to the new version, it shows as available in our admin panel, no idea about add ons...our store manager handles all of that for zen, I've been through the faq section with a fine toothed comb, no answers, the store has bee online since April, and we just started having this problem 2 weeks ago.

Well, looking at this logically, the first thing I notice, from these forums anyway, is that this problem is unique to digital scrapbooking stores.

I'm not clear from your post who exactly does what. Is this right?:

The designers upload their zip files to their own folder

You move those files to whatever folder is appropriate.

You create the product in admin, and add the download attribute.

Then, in some cases, that attribute disappears and there are 7 empty attribute entry lines in its place? Is it always exactly 7?

Does this happen to all designers more or less equally?

Ok, let me see if I can explain better...and before I do, I fixed all of my files last night, and today a customer made a purchase, and of course no download buttons, I go to check the product in my designer folder, hit the A, what do I get, Downloads: none. I clicked my attribute controller, went to edit my product, and there are six blank download sections, download 1, download2, etc, and the name of the zip that should be in the download section is gone. If you went ahead and clicked a new option name and option value, say download 1, it then proceeds to say that the attribute already exists, but it isn't showing anywhere...but if you edit it, you ahve to manually put the zip file name back into the box and update it, then it shows the attributes as there and green.

The designers each have their own ftp, their own log ins to the store, and their own folders to put their product into. Say designer A has her own log in, she logs in, clicks her own designer folder where she then adds all her products, descriptions, zips, everything, then once she has that done, she then goes to copy those files to the appropriate folders that match her product, say she has commercial use templates, so they will be in her main designer folder where she added them, then she'll go to copy, then multiple catebory link manager, and there she will proceed to click all corresponding boxes for her product before updating, that then puts her product in store in several categories at once.

This has been happening to scrap stores everywhere...and from what I can find out it only seems to be happening in newer stores, the older more established stores don't seem to have this happen. It doesn't happen to every product, it just seesm to hit random products in random folders....it was at first only happening to hybrid kits, or as some say taggers kits, which typically only have one zip file, now I see it is happening to full size kits which have multiple files. this is frustrating, no one seems to understand what is happening, doesn't have a clue what we mean when we say vanishing attributes, and no one knows how to fix it. We have a fairly straight forward scrap store, nothing fancy, we would just like to know why these attributes keep going into cyberspace, lol

It's happening all over my store, to all of my girls, and one guy, and none of them are too happy about going in every other day to fix their files. I'm pulling my hair out here, any clues? I'm up for suggestions, if you need my site, message me or email me, and I'll work with you on whatever it takes.

Do you have any of your own Products with attribute downloads?

If so, does it happen to you?

Do you have any add-ons for the attributes.php file?

If you review the admin_activity_log table and search on the page_access field for:
attributes_controller.php

And run the SQL:

SELECT * FROM admin_activity_log WHERE page_accessed LIKE '%attributes_controller.php%' AND page_parameters LIKE '%133%';

where 133 is the products_id of one of the Products where the download has gone missing ... are the admin_id values belonging to just the person(s) that should be working with that product?

Yes my products are also listed and it happens to mine as well, and the only admin ID attached to my products is mine that I can find. This happens to random products in random folders, and we keep having to go an re add the attributes and it is wreaking havoc on my store and designers.

Finally figured out what I think you are doing ...

If you have a Product with Attributes and Downloads on it and copy the Attributes to another Category then all of the matching attributes that are Downloads will be updated with NO Download file ...

So everything will be updated on the Attributes except the Download will now be blank ... :eek:

If I have Product A, Product B and Product C ... If Product A has a Download on it: abc123.zip ... why would I want to copy that to Category XYZ where Product B and Product C are and have those Products with the same Downloads? :unsure:

But that is just the point those products are NOT in those other categories before copying them over! Can't you see what I mean? Ok, let me try this again...say designer A has uploaded a scrap kit to her designer folder, it is there in that folder and nowhere else..we have categories for the store, for example, we have taggers kits, perosnal use kits, birthdays, babies, scrap for hire, etc. the list goes on....she wants the kit she just added in her folder, to be visible in other folder/categories for the store...that way when a customer comes looking for something, they can simply click on the birthday category and there are all the kits that pertain to birthdays...not just the one designers, but all designers kits...if she didn't copy the kit to the other categories, then it would only be visible under her designer name in the store, and not every customer wants to look at just one designer but instead wants to look at all kits in one category to find one she likes...make sense now? One question i have is this, when copying the product tot he other categories, should we link the product or duplicate the product to the additonal categories? either way, it still seems as if no one understands what I mean by vanishing attributes, nor does anyone know how to fix this from happening....I've been told to disable designers salemaker permissons, but how would that stoo products form losing their attributes? They are still in the ftp, listed in the stores file manage rin cpanel, but they don't stick to the products!

Which are you doing now?

Do you want the Product in another Category as a NEW Product or the same Product in multiple categories?

If you Copy a Product to another Category as a Duplicate Product then the Product Download will not be copied ... as there is now 2 Products, the original with the Download and the Copy without the Download ...

If you Copy the Product to another Category as a Linked Product then the Product Download would be there as there is really only 1 Product ...

ARRGHH! I want to know why the attributes are vanishing. And right now it is set to copy the product to the other categories..so would duplicating the product be better?

This is what we have now:

Copy Method:
Link product (yes)
Duplicate product

Only used for Duplicate Products ...

Copy Product Attributes to Duplicate?
Yes
No

So now I'm wondering if this could be causing the attributes on the main product to vanish...if I'm reading correctly, you say that copying the product will copy the details, but not the zips attributes themselves....right? So that would mean to duplicate the whole product would carry the attributes as well? I wish you could see the store itself to see what I mean about the categories and linking products.

I will try to explain it again ...

If you have a Product with Attributes ... and those Attributes have Download filenames on them ...

If you Copy the Product to another Category as a Duplicate Product you will:

1 Have a NEW Product

2 The Product will NOT have the Attributes with DOWNLOAD filenames on them, they are not Copied in a Copy as a Duplicate Product

3 Each Copy as a Duplicate Product will produce a new Physical Product that is no longer related to the original Product in that a change to 1 Product will NOT reflect in the original Product

If you Copy the Product to another Category as a Linked Product you will:

1 Only have 1 Product

2 The 1 Product will be available from more than 1 Category

3 The Main Category know as the Master Category master_categories_id will "own" the Product but physically there is 1 Product

4 Each change of the Product that is Linked to another Category with result in the change being reflected on the Product in ALL Categories because there is physically 1 Product that is just "associated" with the different Categories that it was Linked to ...

I quit...I totally quit...again the same old spiel that doesn't even begin to answer the original question. No wonder everyone who owns scrap stores is frustrated with the level of support they get from here...it does NOTHING but go around in circles and answer NOTHING! The original issue was why are the attributes vanishing from random products in my store...the query about linked file names possibly being a problem making those attributes vanish was a just that, a query to see if it was possible....our products are linked when copying, not duplicated, our host saud suplicating uses more space, so we use the copy feature for products to different categories....I still say if you'd actually leave this forum for one minute to see the store, then you would understand about the categories and why we use them, and why we need to copy products to these categories....either way, it doesn't even begin to help out with the original problem we have which are the random vanishing attributes...and it seems to me after thinking about this that if it were the copying causing the problems, then why doesn't this vanishing act affect all products in the store instead of a select few? Makes no sense, so if you zen wizards cannot figure out why the attributes vanish, and for that matter you can't seem to read the problem correctly and understand simple English instead of tech speak, then why do we come here asking for help with our problems? Either way, I am done with this, I had hoped this being a zen help forum that I would actually get some knowledgable help, or the very least someone who would take an honest interest and try and understand our problems that dozens of scrap stores are having....instead all I seem to be getting is more frustrated with the level of help I am getting. I've read dozens of threads here in this forum all asking the same thing, from way back in 2007...so I know this problem is an old one, but yet you no brainers have not figured out how to fix it. Sorry if I come across as harsh but I am frustrated, we get tons of traffic and have a good customer base, but when you go and fix your attibutes every few days and have customers place orders then tell you that there are no downloads attached to their order over and over, it gets really frusttrating, and it is made worse when you seek help and not one single blessed person understands what kind of problem you are having, they just keep repeating the same crap over and over in all the threads I have read regarding this problem. Somehow, I imagine if it were YOUR business having this problem and you were losing customers and money then you'd find the answer to the problem right real fast.

I have tried to answer you a dozen ways with why they vanish ...

You have Product A with a Download on it in Category 123 ...

You Copy Product A as a Duplicate Product to Category 456 ...

Product A now creates a 2nd Product ... Product B ... Product B is identical to Product A but has all of its Attributes except the download ... this means it has lost its Download ...

Do this enough times during the day and lose multiple downloads on multiple Products ...

Another way to lose the Attributes is to Copy a Products Attributes to another Category ...

This will destroy the Downloads as the Download attributes are not copied with the download filename ...

Unless you have custom code, someone is using one or both of these methods and destroying their Products by not using the Copy correctly ...

From what you are describing ... you and your other sellers should NEVER use the Copy as Duplicate Product ... never, never, never ever!

Always use the Copy as Linked Product as you do not want to make multiple Products you only want the Product to be in multiple categories ...

If you cannot understand any of this ... I just do not know how else to explain to you how the Copy Products is destroying things or using the Copy Attributes to another Product or Category of Products is destroying everything ...

And in case you haven't gotten a clue ... I do have a real interest in your problem as I write Zen Cart and it matters to me very much when someone has problems ... unfortunately your problems are sounding like user error as none of the other download sites have them and nothing has yet been able to trigger this issue in in all the testing I have done trying to repeat this problem ... other than these methods I have tried to explain to you again and again ...

If you can find anything else that might be happening or a pattern you have noticed I'd be glad to help further but all it takes is Harry copying his Attributes from Product A to all the Products in Category 123 and poof ...

I am a scrap store owner...and while I might have some level of frustration from time to time LOL I have nothing but admiration for both the devs who put their time into making Zen Cart FOR FREE and the forum members who again put in their time FOR FREE to help where they can.

The only times I have ever had issues with attributes are:

1. The zip file and/or folder it is in contains spaces or unusual characters like @ # etc...

2. When the designer has mismatched the attribute options, for example with 2 downloads...pairing:

Download 1 :: Part 1
Download 2 :: Part 1 (as opposed to Part 2)
...etc

IMHO when you allow anyone else access to your main admin section aside from who you actually NEED there you have the potential for trouble (which is why I paid for a modification that makes a separate admin folder for my designers and gives them their own administration section)

As Ajeh says...if a designer is unintentionally Duplicating the product rather than Linking it...poof go the attributes...

While I feel for you and your frustration, taking it out on ppl here who are trying to help does no good...and in the end you may very well have to bite the bullet and look into commissioning help from a developer for your problem.

NikkiAngel:

Somehow, I imagine if it were YOUR business having this problem and you were losing customers and money then you'd find the answer to the problem right real fast.

That's right. If it were my businesss which was losing customers and sales I would find the answer.

What I wouldn't do is post the same questions over and over and then beat up on the people who are trying to help me.

The only logical thing for you to do is start eliminating possible causes, rather than insisting on maintaining your current method of doing business and demanding someone else fix your problem.

This problem seems to be unique to scrapping sites which allow designers to upload their designs and create their own products and place those products in categories.

The obvious thing for you to do is elliminate the possibility of operator error by temporarily taking over the product creation and categorization yourself. The designers can upload their zip files with a text file describing where they want them to appear and you can do the rest. If the problem stops (and I think it will) you'll have your answer.

And if you haven't really quit completely, I'll offer some advice that should get you a lot more help.

Notice the way that Ajeh, Lisa and I break our posts into small paragraphs - much easier to read than the huge block of text you're creating.

Many people (including, sometimes, me) will open your thread, see that huge post, and leave, not wanting to take the time and put up with the eyestrain it would take to read it.

You'll get a lot more people interested in your problem if you make it easy for them to read and understand. The more people thinking about it gives a better chance of a solution.

One thought that came to mind is that you mentioned that your Designers have issues with Copying the Products to multiple categories ...

If you look on the side panel, when you hit C for Copy, you will see the Multiple Categories Link Manager ...

Click that button ... now you will see all of the Categories with at least 1 Product in it listed and the Designers can just click the checkboxes for which Categories they want their Product to be in and hit Update ...

This allows them to add their Product to multiple categories at one time and help eliminate the errors that might be part of the problem that you are experiencing when they try to associate their Products with multiple categories ...

hey guys,

I just checked my site this morning and I have a similar problem. The attributes are listed in the zen cart admin and everything is priced by attributes but they arent displaying on the products page.

Now this worked great for past 5 weeks or so, so why have they suddenly disappeared??

n o r t h e r n p r i n t e r s . c o . u k

Thanks for any help.

Moe.

85 X 55 Business Cards looks fine to me.

Hi Stevesh,

What exactly can you see?

There should be a yellow rectangle box that lists all the product attributes, and it is placed directly above the add to cart box.

It's not displaying on my page at all, for any of the products?

Anyone any suggestions, my site is pretty useless without the attributes :frusty: