My (100 and) 2 cents

Folks, I'll be blunt. I don't like it, at least not in the current state.

Honestly, this design feels like a step back when compared to my proposed design (https://zencart.zenexpert.com). The font sizes are exaggerated, and merging the section backgrounds and using non-contrasting colors makes the whole thing lose its impact. Those "Tailor-Made" boxes? That style was popular years ago and it feels outdated now.

The "wow" factor: I understand the "effects" are subjective to developers and it's not to everyone's liking, but they are essential for store owners. Smooth scroll reveals (wow.js/animate style) provide that professional polish which converts a skeptic into a user because it feels modern and fancy...

HOME PAGE / HEADER
Documentation: Why is this a "click to show" menu? It should be instant.
Deployment Steps: There's a delay when clicking steps before the image changes. It's confusing - it makes the site feel broken rather than dynamic.
The Comparison Page: This is a huge selling point for Zen Cart, but it’s buried. It should be front and center under "Support" with the Demo.
Accessibility: I spent ages sorting contrast and accessibility issues on the Bootstrap version. It looks like those problems are back on the menu. Has John even seen this yet?
Community Forum: Really should go under "Support" for both clarity and UX. Anyone looking for support can clearly see the only support offered is Community Forum, and at the same time you're giving more exposure to the Comparison page.

DOWNLOAD PAGE
Again, please compare with the proposed design. Personally, I'm not convinced I'm getting something modern and it doesn't look like I'm making a great choice. Keep in mind we're trying to impress an average shop-owner who needs to feel like they're getting started with a modern platform.

SERVICES PAGE
Seems like a huge step back from the proposed design. We are once again going back in time and not following modern standards and modern UX... It's just not attractive and doesn't boost confidence.

FORUM
The current color scheme is just… boring. It’s too mild to be engaging. Drop the backgrounds and go with clean white - look at GitHub or StackOverflow, they don't need backgrounds to look professional. Also remove or reduce the border radius on boxes - we're not in 2016.
Clean up: Move the stats to the bottom. Above the fold is for content, not data.
Waste of space: Drop the "Subscribe," "First," and "Last" post buttons from the main view. They belong inside the thread.

Accessing ANY forum post, the page jumps and cuts off the top of the original post.
The color scheme on this page is slightly better, but I'd go with something a bit different. Drop the background (again, really no need, white is perfect – just think github, stackoverflow etc). Drop border-radius for boxes or minimize them to 2-3px.
The "Big Nope" on UX: Putting the reply and like buttons at the top of a post is just wrong. I scroll to the end to read the post - that’s when I want to reply. Forcing a user to scroll back to the top just to interact is a massive UX fail.
The current forum has it organized very well – date and post number (permalink) at the top, followed by contents, ending with action buttons.
Speaking of – where's the specific post permalink? How do I link to ie. post #713 which is on page 36 of the OPC support thread? (Since you're displaying 20 posts per page, it's actually page 72 on the current forum: https://www.zen-cart.com/showthread.php/220781-One-Page-Checkout-Support-Thread?p=1341257#post1341257)

PLUGINS
Again, drop the background, please.
Looking at the list of plugins, may I suggest a short description field for new plugin submissions, and simply truncate the existing description to 250 chars. Take a look at https://new.zen-cart.com/plugins/type/other-modules-vb7 and see how much space the description is taking (especially AIO Accessibility).
As already mentioned, it only displays the latest author and there's no changelog for older releases. This REALLY needs fixing.

Has there been any discussion about the Remote Plugin Installer that I proposed last year (https://github.com/zencart/zencart/discussions/7247%29? I did present it to DrByte but never heard back. It would involve some basic restructuring and this seems like a perfect opportunity to do so.
Also, any chance we could get a Latest Plugins page which would list ALL plugins sorted by date added/updated?

THE TEMPLATE SECTION
I see this page was dropped. Honestly? That's a mistake. Attracting theme developers is the only thing that's going to drag Zen Cart out of the mud. If we don't give them a reason to build for us, we don't give merchants a reason to stay.

BOTTOM LINE: I'll keep saying it until I'm blue in the face - design is what sells the platform. Functionality is why they stay, but they won't even walk through the door if the "pretty" isn't there first.

The font sizes are exaggerated - agreed
Documentation: Why is this a "click to show" menu? It should be instant. - agreed, I prefer your header menu to the new one.
Deployment Steps: There's a delay when clicking steps before the image changes. - The images are huge, haven't been resized, which slows it down. optimization probably left for later.
The Comparison Page - agree with your point.
Community Forum: Really should go under "Support" for both clarity and UX. - agreed
DOWNLOAD PAGE - getting to the downloads page requires clicking either the "get started" button or the "Download Zen Cart" farther down the home page. The link to the download(s) needs to be in the header.
SERVICES PAGE - I am not bothered by the proposed new version.

FORUM
Drop the backgrounds and go with clean white - agreed
Clean up: Move the stats to the bottom. - agreed, the stats are useless information that I have never paid any attention to, so they can go at the bottom, in case some cares.
Waste of space: Drop the "Subscribe," "First," and "Last" post buttons from the main view - I think it is fine to leave them there.
Accessing ANY forum post, the page jumps and cuts off the top of the original post. - yes, it does do that, weird.
Putting the reply and like buttons at the top of a post is just wrong - agreed, should be top and bottom like the current forum.
Where's the specific post permalink? - agreed, where did the permalink go? Use it all the time.
PLUGINS- This REALLY needs fixing. - agreed, it is a bit of a mess
THE TEMPLATE SECTION - agreed, we need a page where there are, at minimum, images of templates, preview(send you to the demo of the template) and some description.

I'm sure it's not the first or the last time, but I agree with Mike. :P

Hi all

Thanks for the feedback.

I'm not a designer and my css/html foo is average.

The initial conversion from bootstrap to tailwind was pretty (not pretty) basic.

My apologies for murdering your vision.

I will get around to updating based on feedback here

Just a note

on the template section.
This was added to your site long after I started the conversion. The same with the link on the home page to "What does Open Source mean?"

My main focus was building the backend cms/forum/plugins code
So hadn't caught up on those

Was the "like" button removed? I saw it before, but not anymore. We still not having the reply button at the bottom.

I believe the fonts can be increased a bit... They're really small for me. 🙁

The template section is really needed, and I believe the showcase too.

IDEASLady:

Was the "like" button removed? I saw it before, but not anymore. We still not having the reply button at the bottom.

I believe the fonts can be increased a bit... They're really small for me. 🙁

The template section is really needed, and I believe the showcase too.

The likes button was removed

I looked at the stats we have for engagement with the like button and it was really low
Also the like button has no affect on search results so was meaning less anyway

I have marked "bug" on this thread to see what we can do regarding a Template/Showcase sections although I should note that previous showcases ended up being a spamfest,

I looked at the stats we have for engagement with the like button and it was really low

Right, because is something new that was not used before. I like could be many things: "I agree with you", "thanks", "that's it!", "you are right", etc... without having to post another reply. They might be meaningless to the search, but not to the people active on the thread.

although I should note that previous showcases ended up being a spamfest,

True, like anything that is abandoned or non-maintained. I mentioned this many times and I offered help, if needed. Never got a response. More than a spamfest, there were more sites non-existent or that moved to other platforms while they were there. I also have ideas of things that you should have in the submitting form.

IDEASLady:

although I should note that previous showcases ended up being a spamfest,

True, like anything that is abandoned or non-maintained. I mentioned this many times and I offered help, if needed. Never got a response. More than a spamfest, there were more sites non-existent or that moved to other platforms while they were there. I also have ideas of things that you should have in the submitting form.

A showcase would REALLY be a great thing to have back, but it needs to be actively moderated. Loosen the reigns and give moderation to let's say 3 volunteers. A submission needs to get approved by all 3, and removing it from showcase can be initiated by any one of them, but needs to be approved by all 3. And with the new forum, we have group PMs so they can all discuss it privately if needed.

Also, one thing I'd like to point out - remove the requirement for "powered by zen cart". My clients very often requested that to be removed because they don't want it shown, but none of them mind a link to my site (my guess is it shows the site was built professionally). If you look at my portfolio, I believe it's something people would love seeing as it shows what Zen Cart can do. We don't really need a showcase filled with basic RC/RCD templates or ZCA Bootstrap, or even worse, an old 1.3.9 sitze still using CherryZen template - we need to show the best that Zen Cart is capable of. Have a look at Woo showcase - amazing sites, and no mention of platform. Same with Shopify.

And... The template page on my dev site could be used for the showcase, already contains everything needed and just needs a few minor tweaks to be used as showcase...

Once again in the thinking-alike column...

myZenCartTemplates.com is a presentation of ZC 2.2.2 (with several mods) that lets users "kick the tires" for an hour.

They have admin access and can switch from Responsive Classic to Bootstrap.

The main differences from a standard 2.2.2 build are that I added the Dashboard Boxes add-on so folks can experience the upcoming admin "look," and I repaired the ADA/WCAG items found in each template's storefront.

In Chrome's incognito window (the most accurate test), I'm getting 100, 100, 96, and 66 with Lighthouse for the Bootstrap template. Demo images and the site being set to block indexing are why I'm getting 96 and 66, respectively.

RC is getting 99, 100, 96, 68.

You can see all my latest free mods in action there, as well. I add fictitious orders and customers to test things like the Multiple Ship-To Addresses mod.

The basic build is monitored daily for upgrades across the board, so it should never be more than a day behind on any installed mod.

If you feel there's a plugin that needs to be added, or you have a free template you'd like displayed, let me know. I'll gladly check them out.

As always, comments appreciated.

balihr:

IDEASLady:

although I should note that previous showcases ended up being a spamfest,

True, like anything that is abandoned or non-maintained. I mentioned this many times and I offered help, if needed. Never got a response. More than a spamfest, there were more sites non-existent or that moved to other platforms while they were there. I also have ideas of things that you should have in the submitting form.

A showcase would REALLY be a great thing to have back, but it needs to be actively moderated. Loosen the reigns and give moderation to let's say 3 volunteers. A submission needs to get approved by all 3, and removing it from showcase can be initiated by any one of them, but needs to be approved by all 3. And with the new forum, we have group PMs so they can all discuss it privately if needed.

Also, one thing I'd like to point out - remove the requirement for "powered by zen cart". My clients very often requested that to be removed because they don't want it shown, but none of them mind a link to my site (my guess is it shows the site was built professionally). If you look at my portfolio, I believe it's something people would love seeing as it shows what Zen Cart can do. We don't really need a showcase filled with basic RC/RCD templates or ZCA Bootstrap, or even worse, an old 1.3.9 sitze still using CherryZen template - we need to show the best that Zen Cart is capable of. Have a look at Woo showcase - amazing sites, and no mention of platform. Same with Shopify.

And... The template page on my dev site could be used for the showcase, already contains everything needed and just needs a few minor tweaks to be used as showcase...

My point exactly... I would have given you a like, but we can't do that. 😄

I agree in most of it. My clients never had any issue with the links, but I know how clients can be. If that's a direction the ZC team wants to go, it's fine, there are other ways also to ask for a credit. Anyway, it's not like no one can't see which platform is being used. Also about old ZC... If the site is working, selling, and maintained, I don't see why it can't be on the showcase. We also want to show that ZC works "out of the box" and with a simple design and not many modules, you can have a store that is pleasant and makes you money, so you can reinvest when the upgrade comes along.

Yes, my point is exactly of what you said about showing how ZC can be developed (specially in the description). You can mention features that you can't see just by just looking at the site. How modules behave in the wild, and how clients combine it with other platforms. That's why I mentioned the form of submission.

@balihr

You and others have mentioned the fonts being used too big, too small, exaggerated, isn't modern, and other descriptions.

Help! How do we fix these complaints without specific recommendations?

@IDEASLady, @balihr

A template section and/or showcase will be revisited at some point in the future. Right now, fine tuning the basic site, plugins and forum are the highest priorities. Thanks for the input.

@balihr

How was the color scheme you used on the proposed site determined? I used one of those generator things and came up with the scheme in the image below. It is based on the logo. Would this work better than the beige on beige?

Kim:

@balihr

Kim,

I would fix the logo on the mobile version? It’s important that we never alter a logo, as it is a key part of the website’s branding and identity. The logo should remain consistent across all devices, including desktop and mobile. Please make sure the original logo is used without any modifications.

balihr:

Honestly, this design feels like a step back when compared to my proposed design (https://zencart.zenexpert.com). The font sizes are exaggerated, and merging the section backgrounds and using non-contrasting colors makes the whole thing lose its impact. Those "Tailor-Made" boxes? That style was popular years ago and it feels outdated now.

Balihr,

Why not use both sites? You could take the header’s HTML and CSS from your design and integrate it into the current site. That might resolve the header issues while allowing you to keep the existing site intact. It could be a simpler solution.

I am here if you guys need help ... just pm me

chadlly2003:

Kim:

@balihr

How was the color scheme you used on the proposed site determined? I used one of those generator things and came up with the scheme in the image below. It is based on the logo. Would this work better than the beige on beige?

Kim,

Can you please fix the logo on the mobile version? The current version doesn’t look good and needs to be corrected. It’s important that we never alter a logo, as it is a key part of the website’s branding and identity. The logo should remain consistent across all devices, including desktop and mobile. Please make sure the original logo is used without any modifications.

The questions I asked you had NOTHING to do with which logo design we use. Our logo, our choice. BTW - logos get changed ALL THE TIME.

Kim:

chadlly2003:

Kim:

@balihr

How was the color scheme you used on the proposed site determined? I used one of those generator things and came up with the scheme in the image below. It is based on the logo. Would this work better than the beige on beige?

Kim,

Can you please fix the logo on the mobile version? The current version doesn’t look good and needs to be corrected. It’s important that we never alter a logo, as it is a key part of the website’s branding and identity. The logo should remain consistent across all devices, including desktop and mobile. Please make sure the original logo is used without any modifications.

The questions I asked you had NOTHING to do with which logo design we use. Our logo, our choice. BTW - logos get changed ALL THE TIME.

ok

Kim:

@balihr

You and others have mentioned the fonts being used too big, too small, exaggerated, isn't modern, and other descriptions.

Help! How do we fix these complaints without specific recommendations?

I don't recall ME saying something like that without specific recommendations - I'm usually the one scolding others for such comments. And if I haven't given a specific recommendation in this thread, it's because there is an EXACT recommendation on my demo site. Remember the design originates from my proposal, not the other way round. So, if I'm saying something isn't quite right, there's a live example of my recommended fix. 🙂 I've said it to Ian - my first reaction was "look at how they massacred my boy".

Don't get me wrong, I'm still super-thrilled with the new design, although it's far from what I had imagined. But hey, it's a massive step forward compared to the old site so I'll take what I get. My demo site is still up so the team can have a look and copy whatever needs copying - it was built respecting all community comments I had received on github, and following UX and WCAG guidelines. I'm still finding it hard to believe, but it even managed to please @dbltoe. 😛 My obsession, on the other hand, is UX and I always try looking at things from the end-user perspective - as mentioned in my original post, we're trying to impress an average shop-owner and have the platform optimized for users, not developers.

Kim:

@balihr

How was the color scheme you used on the proposed site determined? I used one of those generator things and came up with the scheme in the image below. It is based on the logo. Would this work better than the beige on beige?

Not sure how much you followed the discussions on github and the stages of the demo site... The original color scheme was different, but if failed WCAG tests. I was pretty much forced into using neutral colors so it can pass the tests. The #933C1F was closest to the colors used in logo that was passing contrast tests. The grey shades are standard greys - #DDD and #FFFFF0 and are there for section contrasts.

Personally, I don't like the color scheme on the new site - I don't find it "impactful" enough. There's too much boxes and box-shadows that just takes away the modern feel, and the colors are toning it all down. I understand it might be down to personal preference, but the site (and especially the home page) needs to feel powerful and make an impact.