Website Payment Pro

IS it required to run the Express Checkout Module?

I keep reading that it is not, but PayPal Tech support said it was.

NO- WPP is not required to run PayPal Express - BUT- PayPal Express is required to use WPP. Note WPP is not yet supported by Zen Cart.

Kim:

NO- WPP is not required to run PayPal Express - BUT- PayPal Express is required to use WPP. Note WPP is not yet supported by Zen Cart.

Thank you for that clarification. I will keep looking for my PayPal Express solutuion then!

Hello, Kim, Merlin:

I just sign up a "website payment pro" solution from paypal. When I talked with their "technical support" team, they don't have a clue about their own module!!They asked me to check with zencart team instead!

I read almost all the messages about "website payment pro" in the forum. I decided to save my heandache and wait for the zencart team's future configuration, instead of trying to implementing blindly by myself.

By the way, kim and merlin are really funny guys. I especially like merlin's "cool humor".

I am looking forward to seeing zencart's new version with "website payment pro" or something similiar like that.

Lina

lina0962:

I am looking forward to seeing zencart's new version with "website payment pro" or something similiar like that.

We are too ... :smartalec:

Give us time ... it's coming ... :cool:

Ajeh:

We are too ... :smartalec:

Give us time ... it's coming ... :cool:

ETA? C'mon! Throw me a bone! I am just about ready to abandon Paypal all together! Too many screens and too many abandoned carts.

Here catch!!!

Sooner rather than later!!! :lamo:

I'm hoping to get some clarification, would very much appreciate everyone's input on some thoughts...

.. I read elsewhere on zen-cart forum that the PayPal TOS forcing Express to be offered with WPP is on "page 19" of the manual. I can't find a manual. I have the tech guide. Where exactly is this WPP-requires-Express rule?

I realize the following is pretty editorialized, and more rightly belongs on a PayPal forum. Believe me I'm not stopping here. I run a bunch of different carts. If you Zen Cart guys figured this out first then I'd be very grateful if you'd share your thoughts. After I gather more info I'll be doing a lot of talking with PayPal, as well as a bunch of other cart vendors.

... So are we really saying that we have to offer our customers a way to pay without ever gathering their personal info to the vendor's website first? Because if that's enforced the consequences are devestating.

There are NO CARTS on the planet that work that way, and for a reason. **We never want to get our customer information FROM the payment vendor, that's their private business between themselves and the payment vendor. **If this rule is accurate PayPal is forcing the cart vendors to allow payPal customers to SHARE their PAYPAL INFO with the online store. Which is, of course, absurd.

This rule forces me to create a customer record AFTER receiving payment. I cannot link the cart to the buyer until after PayPal tells me who the buyer is. What a great way to lose valuable marketing information. PayPal is dictating whether or not a customer voluntarily gives my store info.

I assume they're trying to protect customers from entering personal info on websites when the only reason to share that info is for payment and shipping. Isn't that absurd on the face of it? I have to store the customer's shipping info, how else will I know where to ship the product?

I can get by with a paypal token representing the customer's billing address, and I can see how that protects customers who want to avoid sharing their billing address with the online vendor. But this is silly. Customers always have the ability to enter bogus billing info in the store's billing info area. We could even offer to ONLY take shipping info. But to dictate WHICH ORDER we take the info? We have to get the info one way or another, at some point in the process. What difference does it make if we get it before or after payment? We're still going to ask for it.

Credit card companies have successfully done business for over 50 years without the absurd requirement that we are not allowed to know who are customer is before the customer pays.

I'm sure they're trying to protect someone who gave billing info to an online vendor, but this method surely will protect no one. The anxious customer who prefers to give their data to paypal will still have their data sent from paypal back to the store, yes? And we will have to get the shipping info which more often than not IS the billing info. And what difference does it make to anyone, how does PayPal protect anyone, if we gather the shipping info before or after we get the payment info?

I am very grateful for any light shed on this issue. There are many smart and well-informed people on this forum, I am looking forward to your replies, corrections to my assumptions, agreements with my arguments, disagreements with my arguments.....

thanks

CarolineBogart:

I'm hoping to get some clarification, would very much appreciate everyone's input on some thoughts...

<snip>

I realize the following is pretty editorialized, and more rightly belongs on a PayPal forum. Believe me I'm not stopping here. I run a bunch of different carts. If you Zen Cart guys figured this out first then I'd be very grateful if you'd share your thoughts. After I gather more info I'll be doing a lot of talking with PayPal, as well as a bunch of other cart vendors.

... So are we really saying that we have to offer our customers a way to pay without ever gathering their personal info to the vendor's website first? Because if that's enforced the consequences are devestating.

There are NO CARTS on the planet that work that way, and for a reason. **We never want to get our customer information FROM the payment vendor, that's their private business between themselves and the payment vendor. **If this rule is accurate PayPal is forcing the cart vendors to allow payPal customers to SHARE their PAYPAL INFO with the online store. Which is, of course, absurd.

This rule forces me to create a customer record AFTER receiving payment. I cannot link the cart to the buyer until after PayPal tells me who the buyer is. What a great way to lose valuable marketing information. PayPal is dictating whether or not a customer voluntarily gives my store info.

I assume they're trying to protect customers from entering personal info on websites when the only reason to share that info is for payment and shipping. Isn't that absurd on the face of it? I have to store the customer's shipping info, how else will I know where to ship the product?

I can get by with a paypal token representing the customer's billing address, and I can see how that protects customers who want to avoid sharing their billing address with the online vendor. But this is silly. Customers always have the ability to enter bogus billing info in the store's billing info area. We could even offer to ONLY take shipping info. But to dictate WHICH ORDER we take the info? We have to get the info one way or another, at some point in the process. What difference does it make if we get it before or after payment? We're still going to ask for it.

Credit card companies have successfully done business for over 50 years without the absurd requirement that we are not allowed to know who are customer is before the customer pays.

I'm sure they're trying to protect someone who gave billing info to an online vendor, but this method surely will protect no one. The anxious customer who prefers to give their data to paypal will still have their data sent from paypal back to the store, yes? And we will have to get the shipping info which more often than not IS the billing info. And what difference does it make to anyone, how does PayPal protect anyone, if we gather the shipping info before or after we get the payment info?

I am very grateful for any light shed on this issue. There are many smart and well-informed people on this forum, I am looking forward to your replies, corrections to my assumptions, agreements with my arguments, disagreements with my arguments.....

It's unfortunate that the philosphy post piggybacked on a somewhat unrelated topic.

You are correct. PayPal is twisting the way checkout occurs. They are preying on customers' desire for privacy and security by marketing their payment solution as the better choice. In reality, the info must be shared anyway. But, marketing is marketing. That's what it is. If you want to change that, you need to take it up with them ... or just don't use it.

You're not obligated to use Express Checkout. Zen Cart also offers Website Payments Standard (known as PayPal IPN in the modules listing). Technically you could also rework things to offer "PayPal as an additional payment option" and not offer Express Checkout at all.

CarolineBogart:

.. I read elsewhere on zen-cart forum that the PayPal TOS forcing Express to be offered with WPP is on "page 19" of the manual. I can't find a manual. I have the tech guide. Where exactly is this WPP-requires-Express rule?They do require that you offer Express Checkout if you offer the credit-card payment fields on your own site as part of Website Payments Pro, a feature known technically as "Direct Payment". As long as DP is available, EC must also be available according to TOS. But that is the only time it's "required".

DrByte:

It's unfortunate that the philosphy post piggybacked on a somewhat unrelated topic.
My apologies. Is there a better forum for this conversation?

DrByte:

They do require that you offer Express Checkout if you offer the credit-card payment fields on your own site as part of Website Payments Pro, a feature known technically as "Direct Payment". As long as DP is available, EC must also be available according to TOS. But that is the only time it's "required".

Would you possibly have that reference?

thank you so much for your thoughts.

I'm just using the IPN, and it works fine.

The only reason to need web payments pro is if you want to keep them on your site to complete the payment. I don't thinkg the paypal express will work without have web payments pro.

JP

https://www.paypalobjects.com/WEBSCR-455-20070417-1/en_US/pdf/PP_WebsitePaymentsPro_IntegrationGuide.pdf

page 15

Website Payments Pro Business Rules
Website Payments Pro must be integrated on your website in the following ways. You should:

1. Present the PayPal Express Checkout button and associated messaging before requesting
   shipping address, billing address, and financial information. PayPal account holders should
   not be required enter any of this information on your website, because the information is
   available from their PayPal accounts.
2. Display PayPal as an option along side other payment methods, wherever other payment
   methods are offered.
3. Present the PayPal mark graphic wherever other payment marks are displayed.

DrByte:

Zen Cart also offers Website Payments Standard (known as PayPal IPN in the modules listing). Technically you could also rework things to offer "PayPal as an additional payment option" and not offer Express Checkout at all. .

At the risk of mixing zencart terms with PayPal's practice of referring to the same products with three names....

Website Payments Standard does not have seamless integration. Website Payments Standard can include IPN but it does not have to.

IPN is a subset possibility within Website Payments Standard. IPN is not a payment solution.

As far as I know, "PayPal as an additional payment option" is a synonym for "Express Checkout."

As you know the only option that seamlessly integrated with the merchant's cart is Website Payments Pro. So if that's the goal the customer is seeking there is no PayPal option that allows seamless integration without also offering Express-Checkout/Additional-Payment-Option which stores both billing and shipping on PayPal rather than with the merchant.

In opting for seamless the customer is specifically attempting to increase the online store's professional image. Express checkout barges in and breaks seamless integration, steals marketing/shipping info and potentially confuses the customer with too many payment options. I do this for a living and I'm confused. How's a customer going to know what's going on.

Not that I'm upset, or anything.

:-)

I'm looking for how Express hands the shipping info back to the merchant. If anyone knows please post?

CarolineBogart:

I'm looking for how Express hands the shipping info back to the merchant. If anyone knows please post?

That's all documented in the technical API specs which you can get from PayPal's website.

What is your agenda here? Are you wanting to debate the merits of choosing one method over another? orto debate whether using PayPal is good or not?
You sound convinced that you don't like "Express Checkout" and that you wish PayPal would change their TOS so you could use them as a "seamless integration" as you call it.

If you want a 'gateway', sign up for Payflow Pro. That's all it is ... a CC gateway, tied to your merchant account. Then you have a "seamless integration".

CarolineBogart:

I'm looking for how Express hands the shipping info back to the merchant. If anyone knows please post?

API call: GetExpressCheckoutDetailsResponse

DrByte:

That's all documented in the technical API specs which you can get from PayPal's website.
Got it, read it, thanks.

What is your agenda here? Are you wanting to debate the merits of choosing one method over another?
yes

orto debate whether using PayPal is good or not?
yes

You sound convinced that you don't like "Express Checkout" and that you wish PayPal would change their TOS so you could use them as a "seamless integration" as you call it.
BINGO

If you want a 'gateway', sign up for Payflow Pro. That's all it is ... a CC gateway, tied to your merchant account. Then you have a "seamless integration".
Yeah but that that point I'm not getting the cost benefit of PayPal so I might as well get a real merchant account and gateway.

I know I'm being snide. I'm just frustrated that PayPal is hosing me once again instead of just providing a service and letting me get on with other work.

But yes most certainly debate/discussion about what to use if PayPal doesn't fit the bill would help. Thanks for your replies.

well unless you use payflow you will need to use paypal express,
since this IS required

I am latching onto this forum in anticipation of the release of WPP with ZenCart.

For our business model we would like to stick with PayPal for our processing. Using WPP will be a big plus for us.

I am hoping that when this update is released that it will make it to this forum and then to my inbox.

We would even be receptive to helping test a Beta version.

Back to Website Payment Pro. We chose and installed Zen-Cart because Paypal listed it as integrated. We already accepted Paypal on our site and wanted to accept direct pay without our customers signing up for Paypal. Now what I'm reading says Zen-Cart doesn't yet do direct pay with Paypal's Payment Pro. Is that correct? If so, I've just wasted hours of my time. :frusty:

Now what I'm reading says Zen-Cart doesn't yet do direct pay with Paypal's Payment Pro. Is that correct?

You are correct. Zen Cart has the Express Payment portion fully integrated and the Dirst Pay portion under development.