Why I'm Quitting Zen Cart

I want a 2-question account-creation step. I can't figure it out. So ...
I'm exploring other options. This isn't flame thread, just a sad realization that IMO the Internet has outgrown this platform, despite having the most amazing/helpful community. Here's why:

• (Before you take seriously the following points, be sure to read the entire thread, because it sets more context about why things are this way and what can be done about them. AND READ MY UPDATES (click here) about why I'm NOT quitting Zen Cart at this time.)
• And remember: Zen Cart IS entirely customizable. You are in complete control of your entire site. Unlike all the other vendor-hosted platforms.
• That said, I think Zen Cart does not keep up with modern demands. It's an old school OG platform that seems stubbornly stuck in the early days of eCommerce. But, yes it does work solidly.
• No modern site asks more than 3 or 4 questions to create an account. Email is more important than anything and account creation is basically another way of subscribing to an email list. Zencart asks 12+ questions just to create an account! :frusty: Nobody wants to give their address and phone info just to join a site. I tried and tried and tried to get around this, but alas there's no resolution for this old school way of thinking.
• Themes are stuck in the early 2000s and the modern looking themes available (ie: themeforest, etc) have wretched code that is impossible to modify nicely. :yuck:
• The admin area hasn't changed in a decade. It no longer makes sense in 2015. One example, why do you have to go to an entirely separate page to input metadata for a product? It should all be done on one page, so less energy is spent on listing products. Look at the wordpress admin and compare logic and overall usability. :no:
• Out of the box SEO is horrible.
• Everything feels like a bunch of hacking together to get things to feel like a 2015 shopping site. Stuff that comes out of the box in newer platforms is impossible to achieve in ZC.

Just a sad and frustrated Zen Cart user thread. It's been a long journey. Around 8 years. ZC has got me this far, and I'm thankful for that. But, a lot has changed in the world of eCommerce and how people shop online. I'm suddenly feeling like Zen Cart over-complicates things that should be easy, and doesn't provide the best user/shopper experience. I'll test another platform for a few weeks and see how it goes. Thank you everyone.

:smartalec:In my opinion, Ze

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Originally Posted by pricediscrimination

... I'll test another platform for a few weeks and see how it goes.....

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Good Luck with finding another open source platform which won't give you the .... (you know what). I tested many and ZC is still the easiest and most robust platform to work with. Wait until you have to conquer Magento... :yuck:

what are you testing?

pricediscrimination,

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I'm exploring other options

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You might read this users experiences
https://www.zen-cart.com/showthread....-to-get-it-all

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Originally Posted by frank18

Good Luck with finding another open source platform which won't give you the .... (you know what). I tested many and ZC is still the easiest and most robust platform to work with. Wait until you have to conquer Magento... :yuck:

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You are 100% correct. Can't even compare to Magento. I'm just so frustrated looking at all the beautiful eCommerce sites out there. Sites that started within the last 2 years and sell one or two products are beautiful, modern, and designed to help grow the overall business. So many links that people drop in this forum are down, sometimes I wonder if it's because they just couldn't handle running a business, or because chose a free open source platform that takes up thousands of hours to modify and make look like a trustworthy, modern site.

I think that's a huge issue, trust. Zencart as an overall ecommerce solution to manage orders is awesome, but it's not made with design in mind. The front end takes far too much effort to convey trust and present products nicely.

Again, you are 100% correct. That's why I'm stumped.

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Originally Posted by johnniejetski

what are you testing?

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Frankly, no idea yet. I know that most will be paid options. But maybe worth it in the long run?

Will likely start with Wordpress. There are just so many amazing looking sites out there now and as a longtime ZC user it has me frustrated. In 2015, many options look great out of the box. Fonts, picture organization, banners, etc. Any ideas?

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Originally Posted by kobra

pricediscrimination,

You might read this users experiences
https://www.zen-cart.com/showthread....-to-get-it-all

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I will read this thread. Thanks Kobra. And thanks everyone for not taking this post the wrong way, I Actually feel bad about the title and might ask for it to be changed. Maybe I just wanted to get enough attention that people chime in and persuade otherwise somehow lol.

pricediscrimination,
We all get frustrated for one reason or another at times - not to worry even if you quit

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Originally Posted by pricediscrimination

make look like a trustworthy, modern site

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I understand "modern" but can you explain what constitutes "trustworthy" looking

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Originally Posted by kobra

pricediscrimination,
We all get frustrated for one reason or another at times - not to worry even if you quit

I understand "modern" but can you explain what constitutes "trustworthy" looking

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I know it's vague, but modern looking sites give off a more trustworthy feeling. It's no longer about looking for the SSL certificate or and address posted somewhere. It's a new generation of online shoppers and they do not care about that stuff. There is something about a clean and organized design that says hey this is legit and you can trust it. Not to mention it's a lot easier to get people to register for your site if you're only asking for an email address and password, and not every personal detail. I've seen some ZC sites that I'd never want to even sign up for based on looks, and some other nicely designed sites that I say here take my money. In 2015, it's all about looking good on the front end, and being able to easy accomplish this with a straight-forward back-end.

Of course there are other elements outside of the scope of a platform: images, copy, overall products. But so much time needs to be spend configuring and hacking to make my ZC look how I want that it's hard to get any time for the important stuff. I'm hoping I'll find a platform that has good design and options built-in, so there's time to focus on what's important.

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Originally Posted by pricediscrimination

• Zen Cart does not keep up with modern demands. It's an old school OG platform that seems stubbornly stuck in the early days of eCommerce.

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I'm not sure what you mean by 'modern demands'. I know I looked at quite a few options two years ago when deciding whether to upgrade Zen cart, or switch to a new platform. I stuck with Zen cart, but put money into making changes. I looked at using WordPress with an ecommerce plugin, but none look like they could cope with a store the size of mine. Plus none had good back-office flow. It's not always about the front-end.

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Originally Posted by pricediscrimination

• No modern site asks more than 3 or 4 questions to create an account. Email is more important than anything and account creation is basically another way of subscribing to an email list. Zencart asks 12+ questions just to create an account! :frusty: Nobody wants to give their address and phone info just to join a site. I tried and tried and tried to get around this, but alas there's no resolution for this old school way of thinking.

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Zen Cart assumes it needs the extra billing and shipping information because eventually you'll need to ship something, so may as well get it at account setup than as at any other time. If you're not shipping then you can customise to reduce the stuff asked. You can also stop some fields via config settings. I recently turned of asking for the salutation and age.

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Originally Posted by pricediscrimination

• Themes are stuck in the early 2000s and the modern looking themes available (ie: themeforest, etc) have wretched code that is impossible to modify nicely. :yuck:

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I agree that the default themes are very dated. Plus most of the new responsive themes I've looked at so far are pretty clunky and some really slow sites up. However, I've recently seen some Zen Cart sites that look 'modern' and are responsive. But money was spent to buy them and customise them.

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Originally Posted by pricediscrimination

• The admin area hasn't changed in a decade. It no longer makes sense in 2015. One example, why do you have to go to an entirely separate page to input metadata for a product? It should all be done on one page, so less energy is spent on listing products. Look at the wordpress admin and compare logic and overall usability. :no:

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So fix it, or pay someone to do so, and contribute it back to the Zen Cart community. I'm currently paying a developer to make lots of changes to our Zen Cart site, and a lot of the changes are making their way back into the Zen Cart platform.

About three years ago I used WordPress to build a site with an ecommerce plugin (WooCommerce) to handle a small gift shop with about 20 items related to the business. I couldn't imagine using that solution to handle the 3000 items and back-office processing of my Zen Cart based online shop. And quite frankly, I often found having almost everything on the same page in WordPress frustrating. Sometimes you just want to do what you need to do and you don't need all of that extra clutter.

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Originally Posted by pricediscrimination

• Out of the box SEO is horrible

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Actually, it works quite well if you focus on the content and not on killer latest tricks. Sure it takes some work to find the extra plugins to get the right structured metadata into Zen cart, but it's easily done. And it would be nice if when inputting metadata in Zen Cart one had the sort of guidance the Yoast plugin provides for WordPress. But see, that's not standard WordPress. That functionality is achieved by a plugin. One day someone might do the same for Zen Cart.

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Originally Posted by pricediscrimination

• Everything feels like a bunch of hacking together to get things to feel like a 2015 shopping site. Stuff that comes out of the box in newer platforms is impossible to achieve in ZC.

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I wish you luck in finding that one platform, because I haven't seen anything that comes close yet. Nothing is impossible to achieve in Zen Cart. Because it's open source, you can do anything. And often the extras are available, they just cost you money. But that happens with other platforms as well. But with closed platforms, you don't have the choice of breaking out and doing your own thing the way you can with Zen Cart.

Best regards, Lloyd Borrett.

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Originally Posted by lloyd_borrett

Zen Cart assumes it needs the extra billing and shipping information because eventually you'll need to ship something, so may as well get it at account setup than as at any other time. If you're not shipping then you can customise to reduce the stuff asked. You can also stop some fields via config settings. I recently turned of asking for the salutation and age.

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This is a reasonable assumption, but a bit antiquated in terms of account creation expectations of today. Been trying to customize this with the help of other zenners and getting nowhere thanks to the unclear hacking away that needs to be done to code in several files, instead of a nicely designed on/off switch in the back-end.

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Originally Posted by lloyd_borrett

I agree that the default themes are very dated. Plus most of the new responsive themes I've looked at so far are pretty clunky and some really slow sites up. However, I've recently seen some Zen Cart sites that look 'modern' and are responsive. But money was spent to buy them and customise them.

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This, I'm realizing today, after my initial posting out of frustration, is what I think it all comes down to. Even the so-called premium pay-for themes just simply do not work. They always try to incorporate the same junky distractions like hover over an image and it zooms and tilts, instead of just creating a cleanly coded theme that works. IMo this is due to codebase of zencart, that didn't evolve very well with the idea of people creating themes and plugins. Developing a wordpress theme/plugin is a million times easier.

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Originally Posted by lloyd_borrett

I often found having almost everything on the same page in WordPress frustrating. Sometimes you just want to do what you need to do and you don't need all of that extra clutter.

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Off topic but at the top of your wordpress admin you have the option to shut off anything that you feel clutters the screen while posting.

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Originally Posted by lloyd_borrett

Actually, it works quite well if you focus on the content and not on killer latest tricks. Sure it takes some work to find the extra plugins to get the right structured metadata into Zen cart, but it's easily done.

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Being on top of the "latest tricks" is actually important for SEO. Clean URLs is also important but not an easy built-in solution.

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Originally Posted by lloyd_borrett

I wish you luck in finding that one platform, because I haven't seen anything that comes close yet. Nothing is impossible to achieve in Zen Cart. Because it's open source, you can do anything. And often the extras are available, they just cost you money. But that happens with other platforms as well. But with closed platforms, you don't have the choice of breaking out and doing your own thing the way you can with Zen Cart.

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That's a great point. But for aesthetics and ease of creating a better looking site, maybe a paid option will be better. IE: shopify type of service. Those sites look nice and seems like less hacking to do to achieve it.



Thank you very much for you thoughtful replies. It helps!

At some point I shared a similar outlook to you.

I did look at alternatives, like OpenCart, and Magento (good gosh - say bye bye to built-in basic customization) - and I looked at...more contemporary alternatives like Shopify.

I learned to appreciate Zen-Cart even more.

You grow with Zen-Cart. The templating system is ingenious, it separates core from design and pretty much gives you free reign over many things. Once you get a hang of the basic file structure - it's so navigable. The plugins you find here are a dream to be honest. Specific markers to outline what code is custom and what is standard - it allow you to pick and choose how you want to install a plugin. Whoever maintains the plugin submissions is really keeping an eye on things.

There is so much open to you - and I've learned too much along the way. I never saw myself coding php when I built my first Zen-Cart store, and now I've picked up some seriously crazy stuff along the way. Zen-Cart has taught me so much, about html, css, and php. And because it's so disastrously lacking in design, I've learned an ample amount of stuff on just basic jQuery. Give me the functionality, and I'll handle the design myself.

There are some frustrating things, like you pointed out - these days customers don't want to fill in an entire form of information to become a member. I agree with you there.

As for the admin layout...I don't care what it looks like, my customers aren't seeing it, so as long as it functions, I'm happy.

I'm still looking for that perfect accounting software package I can integrate with Zen-Cart - still no luck. I find that the problem is quite often that the accounting packages are lacking proper APIs or just plain closed up and restricted. This is arguable.

All in all - I'm hoping Zen-Cart 1.6 addresses the smaller issues - like the account creation process - and other than that - It's easiest cart open to free reign.

The one thing that scares me is, when DrByte and Kobra and the cool guy with the forum nick that begins with "mc" and Linda and all of the ninjas...how long are they going to be around for...and what happens when...they've grown tired...

On one of the above "topics" in pricediscrimination's "defense" he did reach out to get assistance on the login credentials side of things... There were some initial miscommunications, and sure if I at the time had had better computer access, I might have been able to give much more direct guidance rather than simply talk about it...

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Originally Posted by yaseent

At some point I shared a similar outlook to you.
I did look at alternatives, like OpenCart, and Magento (good gosh - say bye bye to built-in basic customization) - and I looked at...more contemporary alternatives like Shopify.

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How did you feel about Shopify?

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Originally Posted by yaseent

You grow with Zen-Cart. The templating system is ingenious, it separates core from design and pretty much gives you free reign over many things. Once you get a hang of the basic file structure - it's so navigable. The plugins you find here are a dream to be honest. Specific markers to outline what code is custom and what is standard - it allow you to pick and choose how you want to install a plugin. Whoever maintains the plugin submissions is really keeping an eye on things.

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Maybe you never used Wordpress :P but THAT is a dream. One click install, done. Not hacking away at code because of a templating system that is stuck in web 1.0. Don't want the plugin anymore? You're screwed if you didn't take notes or save the original files to know what to remove from the code.

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Originally Posted by yaseent

There is so much open to you - and I've learned too much along the way. I never saw myself coding php when I built my first Zen-Cart store, and now I've picked up some seriously crazy stuff along the way. Zen-Cart has taught me so much, about html, css, and php. And because it's so disastrously lacking in design, I've learned an ample amount of stuff on just basic jQuery. Give me the functionality, and I'll handle the design myself.

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You are so right about this. Without ZC I wouldn't have learned any PHP or CSS, etc. For that, I am very thankful.

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Originally Posted by yaseent

There are some frustrating things, like you pointed out - these days customers don't want to fill in an entire form of information to become a member. I agree with you there.

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Just a product of old school thought and design without new school evolution.

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Originally Posted by yaseent

As for the admin layout...I don't care what it looks like, my customers aren't seeing it, so as long as it functions, I'm happy.

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I case about this a lot, because poor admin layout means wasted time. It's also discouraging for developers to create cool plugins and themes for the community. Amazingly some newer theme makers are finding way to create decent enough admin panels to make theme changes, but it still lacks so much.

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Originally Posted by yaseent

I'm still looking for that perfect accounting software package I can integrate with Zen-Cart - still no luck. I find that the problem is quite often that the accounting packages are lacking proper APIs or just plain closed up and restricted. This is arguable.

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Good luck! Accounting software it the worst. Quickbooks is a nightmare! It's not even easy to find a half-decent inventory management solution. *crying*

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Originally Posted by yaseent

All in all - I'm hoping Zen-Cart 1.6 addresses the smaller issues - like the account creation process - and other than that - It's easiest cart open to free reign.

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Hope so, too. Thanks for reminding me of some positives of using ZC.

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Originally Posted by yaseent

The one thing that scares me is, when DrByte and Kobra and the cool guy with the forum nick that begins with "mc" and Linda and all of the ninjas...how long are they going to be around for...and what happens when...they've grown tired...

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That is a scary thought! Every name you listed here has helped tremendously over the years. They are all names that mean a lot and create such a sigh of relief when they take time to chime in on posts. So very thankful for them and other Zenners that post here!!!

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Originally Posted by mc12345678

On one of the above "topics" in pricediscrimination's "defense" he did reach out to get assistance on the login credentials side of things... There were some initial miscommunications, and sure if I at the time had had better computer access, I might have been able to give much more direct guidance rather than simply talk about it...

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Thank you very much for remembering that, and for trying your best to help. This particular issue is a source of my intense frustration because it really shouldn't be THAT difficult to create a simple create account page that 99% of all other ecommerce sites have, and for good reason. You're always very helpful, thanks.

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Originally Posted by pricediscrimination

How did you feel about Shopify?

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Impressive basic features. But when you need modules to solve even some simple stuff...you must pay a developer up to $15 per month...and if the module requires the use of database entries, the third-party developer is hosting this database for you...this is scary.

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Originally Posted by pricediscrimination

Maybe you never used Wordpress :P but THAT is a dream. One click install, done. Not hacking away at code because of a templating system that is stuck in web 1.0. Don't want the plugin anymore? You're screwed if you didn't take notes or save the original files to know what to remove from the code.

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Not really..I assume you're talking about Woocommerce? I've taken one look at a website a friend cooked up...I found it rather bloated-looking.

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Originally Posted by pricediscrimination

Good luck! Accounting software it the worst. Quickbooks is a nightmare! It's not even easy to find a half-decent inventory management solution. *crying*

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Stupid accounting. I've been watching AccountEdge closely, by Acclivity. I'm going to be implementing that when I get a chance...there is some room for importing orders and so on...it's quite nifty, with a rather interesting mobile app as well. iOS only for now, but the desktop software is for Mac and PC - and it syncs some stuff back and forth to the mobile app.

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Originally Posted by pricediscrimination

Hope so, too. Thanks for reminding me of some positives of using ZC.

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:)

At the risk of repeating myself....the only really important thing ZC is missing is attribute inventory control IMHO. Everything else is frills or eye candy.
Yes it's a pain that its so ugly and you have to spend ages customising it yourself, or pay someone to customise it without following the template rules/not commenting all code changes and so you enter upgrade hell.

But if it looked too good many ZC sites would look the same like many lazy Prestashop sites.
I would rather they fix the above function hole (and the rounding errors) than make it look pretty, but I know that is not possible until ZC2.0.

If I was starting again I would invest my time in checking out Spree Commerce.

For invoicing, the most likely candidates I have come across for those with a Zen Cart skill set (php, mysql) and who want to see some code they might understand:
for USA-centric I would look at Phreebooks,
EU-centric I would look at Dolibarr, which I will be implementing one day.

Otherwise you are looking at Magento + Open ERP/oDoo with learning curves so steep you need ropes and crampons.

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Originally Posted by torvista

At the risk of repeating myself....the only really important thing ZC is missing is attribute inventory control IMHO. Everything else is frills or eye candy.
Yes it's a pain that its so ugly and you have to spend ages customising it yourself, or pay someone to customise it without following the template rules/not commenting all code changes and so you enter upgrade hell.

But if it looked too good many ZC sites would look the same like many lazy Prestashop sites.
I would rather they fix the above function hole (and the rounding errors) than make it look pretty, but I know that is not possible until ZC2.0.

If I was starting again I would invest my time in checking out Spree Commerce.

For invoicing, the most likely candidates I have come across for those with a Zen Cart skill set (php, mysql) and who want to see some code they might understand:
for USA-centric I would look at Phreebooks,
EU-centric I would look at Dolibarr, which I will be implementing one day.

Otherwise you are looking at Magento + Open ERP/oDoo with learning curves so steep you need ropes and crampons.

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Valuable insight. Thank you for sharing. Will also check out Spree.

In my almost 62 years of playing on this planet I have learned one important thing: You can dress the most evil person in the most beautiful and classy looking clothes and create a wonderful first impression but by doing so you won't take the evil and nastiness out of that person. But it's easy to take the most beautiful person with the biggest heart and warmest nature to the best dress shop and make them look like the perfect lady or gent.

What's under the hood is what counts. And that's what ZC is all about!

Not many of us like and use the basic classic template that comes with a fresh install, the devs have acknowledged that as well... and it is being addressed. Don't judge a book by it's cover! There are lots of great template designers around so why not calling into their dress shop and getting an outfit (template) that suits you? Pretty simple, isn't it?

As for Shopify, I recently did a cost comparison between that platform and ZC. Yes, you guessed it: ZC comes up the winner by a country mile. Let alone that you retain full control over the lot, design, DB, security etc etc.

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Originally Posted by frank18

In my almost 62 years of playing on this planet I have learned one important thing: You can dress the most evil person in the most beautiful and classy looking clothes and create a wonderful first impression but by doing so you won't take the evil and nastiness out of that person. But it's easy to take the most beautiful person with the biggest heart and warmest nature to the best dress shop and make them look like the perfect lady or gent. What's under the hood is what counts. And that's what ZC is all about!

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Haha well said.

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Originally Posted by frank18

Not many of us like and use the basic classic template that comes with a fresh install, the devs have acknowledged that as well... and it is being addressed. Don't judge a book by it's cover! There are lots of great template designers around so why not calling into their dress shop and getting an outfit (template) that suits you? Pretty simple, isn't it?

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With all respect to anyone who was brave enough to develop a template/theme for ZC, they almost all look the same, or are outdated, or built around lousy code that makes no sense. And while pay-for premium sites like Themeforest have some of the best Wordpress theme available, it's sad sad sad that there are 15 or less ZC themes there and mostly all built like :censored:

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Originally Posted by frank18

Let alone that you retain full control over the lot, design, DB, security etc etc.

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Full control is a very good point to consider. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by pricediscrimination

I'm exploring other options. This isn't flame thread, just a sad realization that the Internet has outgrown this platform

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I'm sure most long time zenners have these thoughts at times, myself included.

Now, I'm not going to try to convince you over the benefits and pitfalls of one eCommerce system over another (none are perfect, and some are better suited to some needs than others), but I think I have a rather 'unique' perspective in that I've developed/ported the same shipping module (ozpost) for over half a dozen different eCommerce systems, so I've had plenty of opportunity to see how they compare from both the front end, the backend, and the coding perspective.

Our main eCommerce site is still running ZenCart, and so far, none of the others have offered me any benefits worth considering to make me change.

Some of the other systems may look prettier 'out of the box' than zencart (Well, most of them actually), and some appear to function better than zencart, but I don't think any have a function that zencart *doesn't* have.

Most of them look great until after you've used them for a few weeks to find all the things zencart can do but they can't.

Some of them have weekly updates (some folk can't even cope with a yearly zencart update), and although these updates *may* be easier to apply than ZenCart (with some systems), there are pretty much only needed to fix bugs and security issues that have already been taken care of in the zencart code *years* ago. This is a 'nice' way of saying that jumping ship to newer offerings is another way of saying a voyage on the titanic may seem like a good idea. :-)

Seriously, ZenCart is far from perfect, but it is stable, reliable, secure with support that I've never seen elsewhere for any Software (not just eCommerce). By all means, feel free to investigate other systems. You could well find one more suited to *your* specific needs 'out of the box' (tip: WooCommerce for Wordpress is rapidly growing in support and popularity, and although for many years I would never recommend WP due to its ongoing security issues, it has now reached the stage where although there are still a lot of issues (due to the nature of the system) it has evolved to the stage where it can now keeps itself securely updated.
Woo doesn't have all the functionality of ZenCart (by a long shot) but it does suit the needs of a lot of merchants with only a small number of products to sell, and this system has jumped from nowhere in my list of 'recommended systems' way up to #2 (with ZenCart being #1).

As a hosting provider we carefully evaluate the customers needs before recommending Zen vs Woo. The others don't even get a mention as they seem to fall somewhere in between what Zencart has to offer and what Woo has to offer - Yes, we do host/support the other systems, but only at the clients specific request. To *me* ZenCart is for *serious* merchants with many products to sell. Woo is more for the hobby/owner that sells just a few products, runs a blog and is socially orientated.

The others, as I suggest, sit somewhere in between.

Just my perspective.

Cheers
RodG

RodG - I agree with you wholeheartedly, well said.

And a big 'Thank You!' to the starter of this thread (pricediscrimination) for promoting this great platform with constructive criticism. You highlighted some parts of ZC which are badly in need of improvement. But rest assured, your input (and the input of others) makes this piece of software tick and move on. The devs surely are taking notice of this thread, don't you worry about that!

Many of the issues raised are well known and are being addressed.

Yes, others may be quicker of the mark implementing so called 'modern' requirements, but by being quick and rushed they easily (and repeatedly) overlook essential coding and security requirements and thus creating bugs which linger around for a long time. Magento is a perfect example of this rushed work.... some bugs reported 3 versions prior are still hanging around.

Not so with ZC: it may take longer to implement something 'new' but it is always well thought through with the aim of not creating bigger problems (bugs). And if a bug surfaces after a new release then it is ironed out quick-smart and without creating a new flaw in the process.

That's just my personal view as I see ZC, for what it counts for.

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Originally Posted by pricediscrimination

• No modern site asks more than 3 or 4 questions to create an account. Email is more important than anything and account creation is basically another way of subscribing to an email list. Zencart asks 12+ questions just to create an account! :frusty: Nobody wants to give their address and phone info just to join a site. I tried and tried and tried to get around this, but alas there's no resolution for this old school way of thinking.

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Day late and "dollar" short, but a rough solution to this is provided at the referenced thread... There are a few display items not commented out, the "control" of turning off the extra items is not "logical" and at the end the user is not returned to the point at which asking for the address was started... In my opinion some of those thngs to be discussed, others to just be "discovered" but that's what I came up with in the hour I devoted to it on a blank ZC install (no development tools added).

I've been reading this thread with interest. I like others that have posted have looked at different platforms from time to time. I've also used or implemented and researched other hosted and open source platforms. While none are perfect I've never found another platform that had the functionality, security, and user community that zencart has. This post is a perfect example of one of zencart's most valuable assets. The community. Platforms that have been around this length of time tend to grow stagnant and the forums deteriorate into ugly troll fests. Zencart has a community that is helpful, passionate, and eager to develop additional function. That more than makes up for any shortcomings in my book.

The other suggestion I would make to people evaluating other systems is - check their security posture. The lead developer of another open source shopping cart, when told his code was vulnerable to CSRF attack, said, "Oh, that would never happen." :(

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Originally Posted by swguy

The other suggestion I would make to people evaluating other systems is - check their security posture. The lead developer of another open source shopping cart, when told his code was vulnerable to CSRF attack, said, "Oh, that would never happen." :(

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Thanks for the insight (and PM received with thanks) - unbelievable indeed!

Security is hard, hard, hard, and what most folks don't know can indeed hurt them.

I was also on the verge of leaving Zencart when faced with upgrading it or moving to a hosted solution. I went into Shopify trial and found that they do not even have the basic function of shipping by weight, you will have to pay extra to have that feature! Also on the downloadable feature, customers can not go into their account to download the file, instead they are sent an email link....and if they were not able to download from there you have to resend the link.

Zencart spoils you with all the features of ecommerce! When you go outside of it, you will quickly appreciate what Zencart has to offer!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yaseent

Impressive basic features. But when you need modules to solve even some simple stuff...you must pay a developer up to $15 per month...and if the module requires the use of database entries, the third-party developer is hosting this database for you...this is scary.




Not really..I assume you're talking about Woocommerce? I've taken one look at a website a friend cooked up...I found it rather bloated-looking.



Stupid accounting. I've been watching AccountEdge closely, by Acclivity. I'm going to be implementing that when I get a chance...there is some room for importing orders and so on...it's quite nifty, with a rather interesting mobile app as well. iOS only for now, but the desktop software is for Mac and PC - and it syncs some stuff back and forth to the mobile app.



:)

---

For what it's worth,

- we're actively rewriting the Checkout flow code to allow for Guest Checkout and shorter/longer checkout page combinations for v1.6.0 (you can see it on github now)

- an extra templating "tier" for "shared" inheritance has been added, so you can have a middle layer of template/lang customizations that will remain despite replacing the visual template seasonally or whatever

- and modernizations to the default template look/feel are in store too

Plus a long list of additional features already in place.

DrByte! I'm one of your fan! :) You helped me a lot when I was starting out.

On v1.6 I was wondering if the default template would somehow already be responsive? This is not something that will go away.

Drupal v. 8 is building in responsive views on their tables.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DrByte

For what it's worth,

- we're actively rewriting the Checkout flow code to allow for Guest Checkout and shorter/longer checkout page combinations for v1.6.0 (you can see it on github now)

- an extra templating "tier" for "shared" inheritance has been added, so you can have a middle layer of template/lang customizations that will remain despite replacing the visual template seasonally or whatever

- and modernizations to the default template look/feel are in store too

Plus a long list of additional features already in place.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sunflowertami

On v1.6 I was wondering if the default template would somehow already be responsive? This is not something that will go away.

Drupal v. 8 is building in responsive views on their tables.

---

FWIW, there are still differing schools of thought for application of a forward face (template) for mobile/smaller devices/tablets. Ie. Template that rearranges content as the display size changes vs. a different application/style providing the view. As a result, I would think that it may be "difficult" to claim just one style of presentation as the opener for the base template... That said, providing a means that is relatively device independent may be considered ideal not requiring core/baseline changes for new devices...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sunflowertami

On v1.6 I was wondering if the default template would somehow already be responsive?

---

Yes, that's the plan.

Just read this on the way to another thread...

For what it is worth I have compared loads of different platforms over the years and this one is the only one that can do what I need to do. The modules that are available on here are amazing. The support stupendous. Since 2007 this has been the only platform capable of taking on what I needed to do, which I did not think was that complicated. As with having responsive design included as a basic I would also say that including elements like CEON SEO URL for example would put this platform years ahead of others.

Over and out.

Dr. Byte, you are the best!! I'm excited about zencart all over again!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DrByte

Yes, that's the plan.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by paperman

... I would also say that including elements like CEON SEO URL for example would put this platform years ahead of others.

---

I've never quite got why so many consider things like CEON SEO URL to be so important. My shop ranks well without it. I'm not doing AdWords, just organic SEO. Search engines don't seem to care that much about the URL. Yes, they are more user friendly, but few users ever type in the URL anyway, and most of the friendly URLs are still too complicated for the users to remember. They're still too long to use on social media, so shorteners like Bitly need to be used there.

But maybe I'm just missing something!

Quote:

---

I've never quite got why so many consider things like CEON SEO URL to be so important

---

You are right (IMHO). Friendly URLs are not "important" at all.

But...I use them, I do a lot of pasting of urls into emails and
- they look so much better
- I think they do reinforce the name of the product, if only for those self same people who seem to find it so hard to
read/navigate the shop and have to be sent an email!
- using a native url (in an email for example) maybe gives an worse impression of the shop in terms of how "advanced" it is and hence the state of the company behind it.
- I think new users expect this function to be there out of the box because everyone else has it. Not a reason to include it, but in the end, the idea here (at ZC HQ) is to get as many people as possible to use Zen Cart is it not?
And so if potential users discount it because this function is "missing" (in their view) is that not something to bear in mind?

So I think it has become a norm whether we like or not, no doubt some "expert" can put a figure on whether a friendly-url-based shop fares better in customer perception/their willingness to spend than a native-url one...hopefully not in this thread which started off with interesting meat but is now well off topic.

I've always thought it might be useful to have a way to integrate a URL shortener like Bitly into Zen Cart. Some easy way to get the canonical link for the page as a short URL. Then it would be easy to use short URLs in emails and social media posts. Plus you could get the analytics information from Bitly and maybe gain some extra insights. I haven't seen a plugin for this as yet.

I built my first ZC site nearly 13 years ago (early-ish 2003 when ZC forked out of OsC).

I've tried many competitive systems over the years and while ALL have pro's and con's, I have found ZC to be the system with the fewest con's.

I have always regarded FUNCTIONALTY being far more important than COSMETICS, and despite what some people say, ZC is one of the easiest systems to tweak from a cosmetics point of view.

Today, visual simplicity is the most critical consideration as a rapidly-increasing number of people move to mobile browsing (and shopping) - and the nice thing about ZC is its very, very easy to GET RID of stuff that can clutter up the site.

Having built over 300 sites in ZC over the years (mostly for other people), 4 years ago we moved out of web consulting to our own retail environment and built some sites for ourselves (all selling much the same stuff) and it's really interesting to see (over the years) that the sites with the simplest user interfaces are the ones that are generating the most business.

Today, people want to get to the product(s) they are seeking quickly and easily, add to cart, then checkout as fast as possible. So this is our core focus... how do we really streamline the user experience to meet modern online shoppers' expectations?

This weekend, we had 416 orders across all 5 sites, with about 72% occurring on our one responsive site - pettags.uk.com which is so "bland" to the eye, you would wonder what makes it so attractive... Well, I'll tell you... rapid and easy navigation to PRODUCT, and simple, FAST checkout. Nothing else matters. We build our sites to suit the way CUSTOMERS like to use them... not on our own ideas of what may "look nice".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by schoolboy

We build our sites to suit the way CUSTOMERS like to use them... not on our own ideas of what may "look nice".

---

Worth adding, that this design philosophy is usually highly rewarded in the Google SE rankings too.

It's all about the 'customer experience' these days.

Cheers
RodG

Shopify as an option to ZC?

SEO is a problem with Shopify - offsite/3rd party links are benefiting Shopify, e.g. yourshop.shopify.com, your shop is effectively a sub-domain

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DrByte

For what it's worth,

- we're actively rewriting the Checkout flow code to allow for Guest Checkout and shorter/longer checkout page combinations for v1.6.0 (you can see it on github now)

---

Doc - I was about to make a post about checkout confusion when I saw and read this thread and in particular your comment above. As much as the greater majority of eShoppers are savvy there are many who are not quite so - checkout confusion of 'check out' button vs 'checkout with PayPal' button is creating so many problems and loss of sales - I hope that by the above comment you are indicating this confusion will be eliminated? (so sick of error: 10486 This transaction couldn't be completed. Please redirect your customer to PayPal - and sending explanation emails that I hope are understood at the other end).

cheers, Mike

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shags38

Shopify as an option to ZC?

SEO is a problem with Shopify - offsite/3rd party links are benefiting Shopify, e.g. yourshop.shopify.com, your shop is effectively a sub-domain

---

I recently did a cost comparison - Shopify vs Zen Cart:

At the time of writing this (June 2015) the Shopify monthly charges for their plans are:

Basic $US29.00/month
Professional $US79.00/month (claimed to be the most popular plan)
Unlimited $US179.00/month

Hosting - included
SSL - included but shared


Now let us look at the cost for some essential Shopify add-ons (Apps). I only concentrated on the plugins which I have been using for years and which I personally deem to be essential. I have only chosen the cheapest version of a Shopify plugin.

Recover Abandoned Cart from $US8.00/per month - FREE on Zen Cart
Back in Stock Notifications from $US3.00/month - FREE on Zen Cart
Quick (bulk) Price Updates from $US5.00/month - FREE on Zen Cart
Image Resizer (automatic) from $US3.00/month - FREE on Zen Cart
Store Pickup from $US19.00/month - STANDARD on Zen Cart
Local Delivery $US13.99/month - FREE on Zen Cart
Google Analytics would cost a whopping $US39.00/month - FREE on Zen Cart

Just these 7 essential plugins can set you back by an additional $US91.00/month if your ecommerce store is based on Shopify. In my humble opinion that $US91.00 looks better in my pocket! At a GP of around 33% I would need to sell an additional $US280/month just to offset these costs! You may want other plugins so add the costs to the calculation above.....

When we add it all up on an annual basis, to run a Shopify store on the Basic Plan would cost you in excess of $1400.00 per year (Basic Plan $US29.00 plus the plugins in our example $US91.00 = $US120.00/month x 12 months = $US1440.00 per annum and that is $US).

In Australian $A that would be around $A1800.00 per year!


What about the annual costs of Zen Cart?

Firstly, the Zen Cart software is FREE and open source. Zen Cart is continuously being developed, expanded and simplified. All the plugins mentioned in our example above are either FREE or standard.


With Zen Cart you will need to choose a web host, the cost is somewhere between $A5.00 and $A20.00 per month, depending on the company you select. A decent host with a good reputation and 99.99% server uptime would cost you about $A12.00-$A13.00 per month. For our calculation let us use the higher amount, $A13.00 per month or $A156.00 per year.

Of course you can choose some El-Cheapo host, but you get what you pay for.

Then you need your own domain name. In Australia the registration of a domain name costs you an average of $A10.00 per annum.

You may choose an SSL certificate for safety reasons, an additional cost of say $A30 per year.


That adds up to around $A200 per year.... a saving of $A1600 - say no more!

And you retain full control over your ZC installation, database, coding etc etc - not so with Shopify.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shags38

(so sick of error: 10486 This transaction couldn't be completed. Please redirect your customer to PayPal - and sending explanation emails that I hope are understood at the other end).

cheers, Mike

---

Answered at: https://www.zen-cart.com/showthread....ut-with-PayPal

Quote:

---

Stupid accounting. I've been watching AccountEdge closely, by Acclivity. I'm going to be implementing that when I get a chance...there is some room for importing orders and so on...it's quite nifty, with a rather interesting mobile app as well. iOS only for now, but the desktop software is for Mac and PC - and it syncs some stuff back and forth to the mobile app.

---

Please - if your choices are AccountEdge or a gun - shoot yourself. Just spent an afternoon with it - just horrific, and i've used it, man and boy, since it first came out as MYOB. Today's pain was trying to sync its iPad app via DropBox. Brainless thing could not authenticate.

Accounting packages fall into two classes in my view: old school wherein the package and its data live under your control. MoneyWorks (cognito.co.nz) is magic for that - plus it also a REST interface for the other situation wherein the cart and the accounting package are cloud-based subscription services that integrate via public APIs. This un/fortunately is the megatrend, led for example by Xero and say BigCommerce.

For businesses with a consistent cashflow the costs for these services are manageable. For 'mom-and-pop' style businesses with sporadic or threadbare cashflows there will always be zencart.

For myself I need zencart because only Rod's OzPost handles my peculiar shipping needs, but in spite of the best intentions I can't summon the energy to find and implement all the little changes (and resolve the contradictions) for the plugins I have and so I'm stuck at 1.5.1 instead of glorying in 1.5.4

With apologies (assuming this doesn't get deleted)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lucidlee

For myself I need zencart because only Rod's OzPost handles my peculiar shipping needs

---

Ozpost and ZenCart are not synonymous. There is an ozpost module for a number of different eCommerce systems, and the ozpost servers don't distinguish between them - Should you ever opt to use one of the other supported cart systems your subscription, etc remains valid regardless of the cart.

The benefit (and pitfalls) of using the ZenCart version of ozpost is because this is always the 1st to be updated with new carriers, new shipping methods, etc, and ZenCart is the software we use, so any problems or issues are quickly noticed and rectified.
It is also the 1st to get to see the all new bugs that are inevitable with any new release.

In contrast, some of the other implementations can be months behind the zencart version. I don't use the other systems on a regular basis (I develop for them purely on a local test site) so bugs and problems can go unnoticed for years, unless someone reports them.

So, although there are many good reasons to stay with zen, if ozpost is your only reason, then it isn't a very good one. :-)

Cheers
RodG

I've read this topic twice ...

To be honest, there were days I felt the same "ZC modern look frustration" to be the main reason of all ugly thoughts, until I understand why I'm still here. Someone wrote it before: "I have always regarded FUNCTIONALTY being far more important than COSMETICS, and despite what some people say, ZC is one of the easiest systems to tweak from a cosmetics point of view."

Sometime I compare ZC with Linux; a strong community always adapt and survive.

While you have some valid points, my philosophy is that it's the products that matter not the beauty of the website. An appealing website, without a lot of clutter and that works well is what I was able to achieve with Zencart. That's all I wanted and that's what I got.
Carol

Why I'm quitting zencart,

Nothing to really keep me here really, people get offended and defensive WAY to easy.
I'm getting threats via PM that a person is going to make my ozpost module for zencart worthless (or words to that effect). Too late mate, someone beat you to that several years by uploading a hacked version of my code.

Sadly, 2 years ago there were at least 200 forum posts daily. These days we are lucky to see 50.

Two years ago there was an average of - 30 people running ozpost on trial in any given month, this is now down to an all time low of Two. (your threats mean nothing to me Mr PM)
The number of active ozpost-for-zencart subscribers can now be counted on two hands and falling. (in contrast, the Woocommerce version was released just a few months ago, has ~25 people running the trial at any given time. The 1st trial periods started to end barely two months ago, as of today we already have more Woo subscribers than ZenCart subscribers.
The latest ozpost updates have been performed on the Woo System (as will all future updates), the reason being is that the code is a lot cleaner and easier to work with. It allows updates (all modules, not just ozpost) to be 'pushed' out at a moments notice (no need to create and validate zip archives and having to wait for the zen gods 'approval' before acceptance and release)

I do still have one more ozpost/zencart update 'in the wings' (providing support for Hunter express, as well as a few bug fixes and other minor updates). I hope to have this finalised and uploaded before Xmas, but due to the dwindling support this is most likely to be the last release for the zencart addons (future bug fixes, if any will be made available via the ozpost auto update code)

This could well be the last post I'll be making in the forums. I know many people will applaud this because I do speak my mind and am very opinionated. The wiser among you realise that I'm very rarely wrong (which really irks a lot of people)

In short I think zencart has lost its way, there's nothing to keep me here and recent events and the 'threat' to destroy the very thin thread that ozpost still has is a real joke, but also the last straw. Well done Mr PM, it was the comments such as yours that caused the transition of ozpost being fully supported and 100% free (for almost 5years) into the server subscription system that it later became. It took just one person to push me too far and everyone ended up paying the price. You have effectively achieved the same thing. You must be really proud of of yourself. Did you also go crying to mummy, or was crying to the moderators enough to satisfy the dreadful hurt I must have caused you?

That's very sad news Rod.

Quote:

---

This could well be the last post I'll be making in the forums. I know many people will applaud this because I do speak my mind and am very opinionated. The wiser among you realise that I'm very rarely wrong (which really irks a lot of people)

---

Rod - I was taken aback to read your post - I am not privy to the background details however let me say this, you have always been very supportive in a number of threads I have been involved in (unrelated to your plugin) and you have helped me greatly on a number of occasions - I for one would be sorry to see you and your expertise leave the forums.

cheers, Mike

to use WooCommerce does it rely on you using WordPress or is it standalone like ZC, (i.e. do you need to use WordPress as the CMS ?)

cheers, Mike

Yes, Woocommerce requires Wordpress.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DrByte

For what it's worth,

- we're actively rewriting the Checkout flow code to allow for Guest Checkout and shorter/longer checkout page combinations for v1.6.0 (you can see it on github now)
...

---

When it 1.6 expected to be released? The roadmap says "soon" after 1.5.0a/b but that was 4 years ago.

I know the true answer is "when it's done/when it's ready", but I'm currently going through the painfull process of upgrading a heavily customized 1.3.9 to 1.5.4, and if 1.6 is about to be released then I'm wasting my time with the 1.5.4 upgrade.

If it's not coming out soon, how about a back-ported version of the new responsive template?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cstdenis

When it 1.6 expected to be released? The roadmap says "soon" after 1.5.0a/b but that was 4 years ago.

I know the true answer is "when it's done/when it's ready", but I'm currently going through the painfull process of upgrading a heavily customized 1.3.9 to 1.5.4, and if 1.6 is about to be released then I'm wasting my time with the 1.5.4 upgrade.

If it's not coming out soon, how about a back-ported version of the new responsive template?

---

This thread is really the wrong place for answering all those questions. The short answer is always that it's always worth upgrading to the latest version regardless of when the "next" version will be available. In fact, doing a second smaller upgrade a month later is ultra simple by comparison, because you're working from a cleaner code base with fewer changes to adapt. That said, I understand the sentiment.

A v1.5.5 is in-the-works, which incorporates all the known bugfixes against v154 and older, and we're working on a simplified responsive template for it. Estimated release is sometime in the next month or two ... whenever it's ready. :)

The stock template is bogging by today's standards and if you've a few add-ons upgrading can be a ball ache.

That said, I came to the table with absolutely no programming experience whatsoever and have been selling online for about 10 years, so i'm grateful, thanks guys.

I've messed with allsorts since using Zencart and I cannot find anything as customisable and controllable with as helpful a community.

I know of others who have had sites custom built that don't work as well or are as flexible as ZenCart and they have spent £1000s and even £10000s.

I think it needs to be remembered what size of a project it must be putting together an ecommerce solution that can bend to fit the needs of the many. So I reiterate that i'm grateful, and when I have to put work into my site on my part I don't welcome it but neither do I begrudge it.

Thanks for replying (and in my other thread too).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DrByte

In fact, doing a second smaller upgrade a month later is ultra simple by comparison, because you're working from a cleaner code base with fewer changes to adapt.

---

In the case of 1.5.4 to 1.5.5, yes this is true. But a 1.5 to 1.6 would likely be more complex.

Since it looks like 1.6 is a "someday" release, I'll continue my 1.5.4 and patch it up to 1.5.5 when that is ready. Thanks.

Quote:

---

This thread is really the wrong place for answering all those questions

---

Is there a right place?
I think it's a relevant place, as
a) all those who are fed up with the apparent current state of affairs head right on in to see if others feel the same and to maybe get some relief/not feel so frustrated.
b) there is no other place, as requests for info are met with at best silence. Only newbies are inexperienced enough to ask.

Those of us who have lingered here for some time are aware that "things are ready when they are ready" i.e. "done properly" and that beggars can't be choosers, no-one is paying for development etc... so no-one can demand anything from anyone etc...BUT, the point is often made that Zen Cart is so great due to the very helpful forum... which is made up of its users and who I feel DO warrant some consideration based on the input they make in terms of taking time out from their business to answer questions and create mods and the fact they have trusted to base their business on Zen Cart and it's continuing development.

I think that a few comments not even every month would go a very long way to assuaging people's uncertainty about the future, rather than the absolute silence we have come to accept.

Quote:

---

The short answer is always that it's always worth upgrading to the latest version regardless of when the "next" version will be available. In fact, doing a second smaller upgrade a month later is ultra simple by comparison, because you're working from a cleaner code base with fewer changes to adapt.

---

I disagree.
I too am knee-deep in a site rework for a responsive template and having to put business matters on hold until it's finished. It would not be very efficient to have 1.6 come out shortly and have to rework it again.

And no I don't think it is less work each time you do an upgrade.
I have a heavily modified site and the mods need to be merged/updated each time with the corresponding testing, so yes each upgrade is a pain in the arse and the point at which every user looks around in desperation thinking "it's 2015, I can't believe I am comparing hundreds of files, there must be something better than this".

I have a business to run and spending days using up the zero spare time/sleeping time I have on upgrading and testing is not fun nor business-like nor popular with the kids. But it comes with the DIY territory so I should not complain...but still I don't want to repeat it within a couple of months if I can avoid it.
"So get someone else to do it" you say: no-one else is allowed in my well-documented modified site and I could count on my nose or other singular appendage the people I would trust with my site.

Quote:

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A v1.5.5 is in-the-works,

---

Seeing bug-fixes to be included in a 1.5.5 is depressing as that means 1.6 is waaaay off....and as for 2.0 with a "modern" architecture, who knows. When that is finally ready for alpha testing maybe there will be no need for an upgrade script as there will be no-one left here needing to upgrade? Depressing thought.

Other open source projects seem to have momentum and visible progress and communication. I don't see it although I know it is there.
It seems to be that the dev team are not concerned about getting new users (I can understand that as the 1.x stream is a dead end) but more importantly not keeping existing ones, all it takes is occasional information about the state of things that comes more often than Santa Claus.

I would like to know why the visible effort is in improving 1.x when it's going nowhere? Bug fixes yes please, but spending all this dev time making it look pretty?
Lipstick on a pig. So it has an ugly template, who cares, every shop should make their own anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to be able to able to recommend ZC to all the people who ask me, but I can't.
I would LOVE to package up all the mods I have fixed and improved...but I can't justify the time. I still keep up my Spanish translation, but why should I bother with one download a week and they are going to use Prestashop anyway?

I would LOVE to see this project up there with the current "best" and feel good about having made the right decision years ago and stuck with it, while my peers think I am nuts to continue with it.

But, progress "looks" like too little, and far, far too late to make up the lost ground...but prove me wrong please or at least tell us something about your thoughts and plans!

Quote:

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I think it needs to be remembered what size of a project it must be putting together an ecommerce solution that can bend to fit the needs of the many. So I reiterate that i'm grateful, and when I have to put work into my site on my part I don't welcome it but neither do I begrudge it.

---

I concur absolutely...but please tell us what is happening!

</rant>

Steve

Quote:

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Originally Posted by torvista

I can't believe I am comparing hundreds of files

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Hundreds of files???
If using the template override system there should be only a hand full (maybe 50-60 files) that would require comparing/merging
and any core files that one might have edited
I have never seen a cart that was modified have hundreds of files affected

Quote:

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If using the template override system there should be only a hand full (maybe 50-60 files) that would require comparing/merging
and any core files that one might have edited

---

True, but you have to compare old vanilla with new vanilla, then your mods with the two to see if your mod code should encompass the change or just be merged. Depends if the mod is additional functionality or changed functionality.
Still, all 1700 files have to be compared, easy as it is with Beyond Compare if they are unchanged.
But that was not the point of my post. I am not complaining about having to carry forward my mods, that is my problem.

I am querying:
a) why 1.6 is being done at all when the future requires 2.0 and its framework?
b) more advanced notice of releases (even within 3-4 months) would help business upgrade planning, and more progress and roadmap info would go a long way to alleviate concerns and frustrations and avoid threads like this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kobra

Hundreds of files???
If using the template override system there should be only a hand full (maybe 50-60 files) that would require comparing/merging
and any core files that one might have edited
I have never seen a cart that was modified have hundreds of files affected

---

just because you have not seen it does not mean it does not exist......

i sympathize with torvista having recently done one upgrade and now starting another. using diff and comparing files is never fun...

the new upgrade i'm doing has a responsive template, and the template itself has already modified core files. and that's before any other changes.

having worked with magento and their template override system, never modifying core files, i can not say if it's any easier.

that said, no one likes vaporwear; and i respect the ZenCart team's decisions about announcements and the like. you get what you pay for...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by torvista

more progress and roadmap info would go a long way to alleviate concerns and frustrations and avoid threads like this.

---

Has been an issue for a long time along with pertinent documentation
The dev team just seems closed to any ideas that would move them forward in this area

Hello All,

I've been using Zen Cart since the fall of 2008 and I have found it to be a reliable, stable and headache free content management system!! It took me a couple of weeks to wrap my head around the file structure and admin set up but once I understood that and mastered the use of spreadsheets for product uploading I was good to go. It has some short comings but there isn't a CMS out there that doesn't. I'm not a coder so maybe I'm missing that side of the equation....but I'm hard-pressed to understand why I would switch to another eCommerce platform.

I also use Joomla and Wordpress for our business and other clients and the upgrade process is obviously a different experience. I'm guessing for most small business owners the lack of one button upgrade for Zen Cart and the extensions is a major stumbling block...If they or one of there staff members doesn't have the skill set to tackle the upgrades it would require them to hire an outside dev to handle the process which makes some people uncomfortable...I assume.

I don't fully understand Zen Carts Open Source business model but I would hope most people who use Zen Cart would make small monthly contributions and use the services promoted by Zen Cart ensuring it's viability. Software as a service is commonplace for most small business owners....

Just my two cents worth....

Hi,

I’ll let Zen contributors and developers to talk about features. Let me to leave my thought about modern design of a website.
First of all, the modern design is not a matter of the e-commerce platform but good ideas which comes from you or your designer and which can be transformed to php code. It means that the same design can be applied to the different e-commerce platforms.
If you want to stand out of the crowd with the modern design, you should either buy good-looking template or engage a web designer and developer to create that one. It means that good design costs.
In conclusion, when I talk about the e-commerce platform I would put an emphasize to the e-commerce engine and security as the core things. As for design, a website can be dressed in whatever you want according to the budget that you set aside for that purpose.

Best,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Laki

...I talk about the e-commerce platform I would put an emphasize to the e-commerce engine and security as the core things.

---

i would say this is a base starting point for deciding on any e-commerce solution. the question remains how does one make these determinations especially if you do not dig deep into the code? you have to base things on the success of the solution and what others say about the solution.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Laki

...you should either buy good-looking template or engage a web designer and developer to create that one. It means that good design costs.

---

i would not be lulled into thinking that you can buy a good looking template and be off to the races. i have purchased templates in the past that were 1.5.4 compatible and yet when i went digging into the code, the "designer" was still using code from numerous older versions of zen. meaning i would have to back-port those zen-cart updates. and then how secure is that template now?

one only needs to look at the success of a solution like shopify to see what on-line retailers demand and are willing to pay for a solution.

My point was that a specific e-commerce platform doesn't constraint you in terms of design replying that Zen Cart doesn't look modern. You can put your design on the e-commerce engine or in other words: any draft made in Photoshop can be translated to php code.
As for me, I'm very satisfied with Zen e-commerce engine and will continue with it.

Update Part 1:

Since starting this thread on October 22th, 2015, I haven't had time to explore other options. :lamo:

Since then, I've reflected on that post and have more to add to the original struggles and reasons for leaving Zen Cart. I share this apprehensively because as emphasized back then, this is not a flame or troll post. Just venting some frustration and have greatly appreciated the positive reaction and insights so far. Just a few:

• It's crazy that clicking a main category does not show the products contained in the subcategories. The point of a category system is to organize, but shouldn't create more clicks than nessecary if the user doesn't want to narrow it down more. If you sell shoes, some are dress and others are trainers, but why can't we just see all the freakin' shoes when clicking Shoes? The point of clicking Shoes was so not to see Shirts in the mix!
• To truly get a product listed correctly (SEO, attributes, etc) there are just waaaaaay too many steps and clicks needed. All of this can just be handled in one place. Everything related to an individual product should be editable right there in product.php. Crazy that you have to go there, then adding to multiple categories needs to go to another place, then adding custom meta data needs another place, and forget about adding attributes! That's an entirely different place too. Adding a single product takes 3-5 times longer because of this.
• No tagging system. There is just no easy way to link similar products and make them easy to browse. ZC was started before tagging was really popular I guess, but it's really something that is completely nessecary for an eCommerce site. Categories are not enough, especially with the ridiculous problem from point #1 above!
• Seen it typed to many times here that Google doesn't really care if you have clean keyword filled URLs or not. That is total BS. If that's true, then why is it that a staggering majority of URLs in the search results are SEO friendly? Of course they want to see related terms in the URL. Not to mention that it build trust with anyone going to click the link. Instead of plugins that need updated and break when ZC updates, and have limited configuration, it should be part of the core, no? Even this forum has some keywords stuffed in the URLs - no wonder it's so googlable.
• Admin is not mobile friendly. Doesn't anyone check who's online and update their site on the road?
• How many people actually use Item Weight? Seriously how many of you actually go get your item, put it on a scale, then update Item Weight for your shoppers to see? It's great as an example or filler, but would be nice if you were able to add other things that are more useful for quick editing in product.php.
• The image management system is insane and takes too much work! Just uploading images to a post shouldn't be that many steps.
• Templates templates templates (themes themes themes) so hard to find good templates out there with well written code that look even remotely like they were made in the 2000s.
• Even customizing the breadcrumbs is hard. And getting search terms in the titles. As well as inserting content between rows of products, like banners, etc.

There are more that I can't think of at the moment. Most of the frustrations are of things that just take way too much time to do, in comparison to a wordpress or other CMS type of site. Let's not forget almost everyone here is using ZC to run a business. Running a business is already hard enough without having to deal with running a shopping cart system that takes to much effort to operate. :frusty:




Update Part 2:

So here's the surprise. Despite frustration with the above. I have decided to keep using ZC for now. The reason why is because of the people in this forum. After starting this thread, there was one forum user in particular that when to my original Simple and Easy 2 Question Create Account Page thread and started hammering away at a solution. That person is mc12345678. He/She didn't have to help. They could have just replied with an unhelpful "why do you need that" reply, but that's not what happened. mc12345678 provided guidance for solving the problem.

Also, the replies in this thread. I don't think many other communities would have responded as well to the first post, but the users here chimed in with replies that were useful and positive. Thank you all for that.

So I'll continue to use Zen Cart and will help others in this forum as much as I can, as many here have given me answers over the years. Thank you for that, too.

I don't know if this is the right decision for the long term, especially if the software takes so much time to configure and makes things like SEO so difficult, but I am going to hang in there and stick with it.

Please keep the replies coming, I hope this thread will be helpful to others who are thinking of coming or going. At the very least if you use ZC, you can rest assured that you have a support system with this forum.


Cheers :cheers:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pricediscrimination

....So here's the surprise. Despite frustration with the above. I have decided to keep using ZC for now. The reason why is because of the people in this forum.....

Cheers :cheers:

---

Thanks and cheers to you!

ZC 1.5.5 is just around the corner nearing release date. I have a beta version running and lots and lots of things discussed in this thread have been implemented. You won't be disappointed though....

as someone who makes zen-cart work for a few clients, other issues that i truly find annoying and do not remember reading here include:

- code repetition. how much of the code is the same for pages like products_new, products_all, featured_products, specials, category listings? there just seems like there are way too many places where the codes is the same, and a better class structure could resolve these issues.
- in the same arena, having the same functions and classes in the admin side as well as the customer side. i hate that a function gets redefined depending on where you are in the store. the admin side should use all of the customer functions/classes and then extend for additional needs.
- finally, it would be great if the base package had an admin orders/edit orders function. i find the add-ons in this area bloated and a necessary evil. every time i'm forced to dig into that code, i am never happy.... and in the same vein, ensure that order totals get re-calculated after an order edit.

zen-cart's beauty is the ability to customize it. it would be nice if the structure made that easier.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by carlwhat

as someone who makes zen-cart work for a few clients, other issues that i truly find annoying and do not remember reading here include:

---

Thanks for the feedback!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by carlwhat

- code repetition. how much of the code is the same for pages like products_new, products_all, featured_products, specials, category listings? there just seems like there are way too many places where the codes is the same, and a better class structure could resolve these issues.
- in the same arena, having the same functions and classes in the admin side as well as the customer side. i hate that a function gets redefined depending on where you are in the store. the admin side should use all of the customer functions/classes and then extend for additional needs.

---

Both of those issues have been addressed significantly in the in-progress v160 code, which can be previewed on github. While the v160 code is not ready for release yet, you'll see that there's been a lot of consolidation and centralizing of those kinds of things.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by carlwhat

- finally, it would be great if the base package had an admin orders/edit orders function. i find the add-ons in this area bloated and a necessary evil. every time i'm forced to dig into that code, i am never happy....

---

I feel that pain. I'd like to find the time to overhaul that section ...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pricediscrimination

Update Part 1:
...

• It's crazy that clicking a main category does not show the products contained in the subcategories. The point of a category system is to organize, but shouldn't create more clicks than nessecary if the user doesn't want to narrow it down more. If you sell shoes, some are dress and others are trainers, but why can't we just see all the freakin' shoes when clicking Shoes? The point of clicking Shoes was so not to see Shirts in the mix!

---

I'd never thought about this until you mentioned it ... essentially using the categories as a product filter ... it makes a lot of sense!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lat9

I'd never thought about this until you mentioned it ... essentially using the categories as a product filter ... it makes a lot of sense!

---

But, if all of the "shoes" are in the category (linked) that has the sub-categories, then wouldn't such a "product filter" exist/be possible and that being a setup chosen by the store owner? Such a process has been discussed elsewhere in the forum and seems to be just another choice to be made about how to present one's store...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pricediscrimination

I'm still looking for that perfect accounting software package I can integrate with Zen-Cart - still no luck. I find that the problem is quite often that the accounting packages are lacking proper APIs or just plain closed up and restricted. This is arguable.

---

I know of and had integrated an accounting system that works PERFECT with Zen Cart and I can show you the site. You are able to "click a button" and update the ZC site.

I learned recently that when seeking for advice I shouldn't reply using any of the words NO, BUT or HOWEVER; so I'm going to try to reply/comment on your post without using them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pricediscrimination

Update Part 1:
*It's crazy that clicking a main category does not show the products contained in the subcategories. The point of a category system is to organize, but shouldn't create more clicks than nessecary if the user doesn't want to narrow it down more. If you sell shoes, some are dress and others are trainers, but why can't we just see all the freakin' shoes when clicking Shoes? The point of clicking Shoes was so not to see Shirts in the mix!

---

Yes, you are right. Also if you are organizing them in subcategories, why you want them all together when showcasing them to your prospect buyers? It's like having 10 little shelves (or drawers) in your closet for each pair of shoes you have and instead, you just throw them al on the floor of your closet. Instead why not you use the tag "shoe" in all of them and let prospect use the search feature which will bring all the shoes in a single listing?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pricediscrimination

*To truly get a product listed correctly (SEO, attributes, etc) there are just waaaaaay too many steps and clicks needed. All of this can just be handled in one place. Everything related to an individual product should be editable right there in product.php. Crazy that you have to go there, then adding to multiple categories needs to go to another place, then adding custom meta data needs another place, and forget about adding attributes! That's an entirely different place too. Adding a single product takes 3-5 times longer because of this.

---

True. I don't know why even ZC team hasn't inserted yet a "SAVE" button or a "PREVIEW" button (that will take you the the page) and you have to get out of the product insertion page to continue editing. Things that simple are not there, so let's not talk yet about related product listing features. They should be there, at least in tabs:

Code:

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  Product Info  |  Categories  |  Qty. Discount Pricing  |  Attributes  |  Metatags

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pricediscrimination

*No tagging system. There is just no easy way to link similar products and make them easy to browse. ZC was started before tagging was really popular I guess, but it's really something that is completely nessecary for an eCommerce site. Categories are not enough, especially with the ridiculous problem from point #1 above!

---

There's a module for that, and also you can do it with metatags. I always use search feature in sites when I don't find something. If you want to "suggest" similar or related products, you have different cross sell mods.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pricediscrimination

*Seen it typed to many times here that Google doesn't really care if you have clean keyword filled URLs or not. That is total BS. If that's true, then why is it that a staggering majority of URLs in the search results are SEO friendly? Of course they want to see related terms in the URL. Not to mention that it build trust with anyone going to click the link. Instead of plugins that need updated and break when ZC updates, and have limited configuration, it should be part of the core, no? Even this forum has some keywords stuffed in the URLs - no wonder it's so googlable.

---

Maybe just because a lot of people are using them? and they are the ones that actually care about their content too? People don't care about the url size or looks, they care that the link WORKS, and it's what they are looking for, and you offer good enough information and/or interest to buy from you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pricediscrimination

*Admin is not mobile friendly. Doesn't anyone check who's online and update their site on the road?

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Supposedly 1.5.5 is. I personally don't check site on the go. When I work, I work from home/office. If I'm out, I'm out, not checking the site. I get email notifications and that's enough for me to keep me posted. I couldn't work from a mobile device anyways; my eyes will suffer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pricediscrimination

*How many people actually use Item Weight? Seriously how many of you actually go get your item, put it on a scale, then update Item Weight for your shoppers to see? It's great as an example or filler, but would be nice if you were able to add other things that are more useful for quick editing in product.php.

---

I use it, and I have few customers that have used it. Remember that not because you don't use it or need it, means nobody does. For example think about jewelry making wholesale (you know all those little pieces that are sold by weight?).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pricediscrimination

*The image management system is insane and takes too much work! Just uploading images to a post shouldn't be that many steps.

---

True! This should be included in original code. There are alternative to solve that though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pricediscrimination

*Templates templates templates (themes themes themes) so hard to find good templates out there with well written code that look even remotely like they were made in the 2000s.

---

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder; and you can make with the layout and style whatever you want it to be. If is simple to navigate, I want it and it's an easy and secure checkout, I will get it from you (I don't care of your site looks).

This site was created in Y2000: clasificadosonline.com and if you see hasn't changed much since their launch, it's one of the the most visited and succesful sites in my country; why? because it works, it delivers, it's simple for people to list and to browse. Maybe people like me cares about their looks (being in web design) but that doesn't seem to worry the over 6M monthly visitors.

Also, look at Amazon... how much have they changed their design from the original? What about eBay?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pricediscrimination

[*]Even customizing the breadcrumbs is hard. And getting search terms in the titles. As well as inserting content between rows of products, like banners, etc.

---

1-why? | 2-was solved on post | 3-why? why would you want more distractions for your buyer?

Why I am NOT quitting ZenCart

Ok, so I only recently decided that I need to use a platform instead of my old hand made pages. I'm no coder, although my creative side is even worse. Yet despite some things I find should be much simpler and more instinctive, I also find the assistance provided here is pretty damn good, sometimes the solutions are too good because as a non coder, I don't always fully understand how to implement the answers but I have always been provided a solution. You do NOT want to know my thoughts about amazon and their support, I will simply say their staggering arrogance is worthy of doing a trump (see british slang), as for facebook its non existent pfft......

So while it's not easy and I struggle at times & haven't as yet opened zencart to my customers, I am persevering because I know it's a product that works. I checked out a great many websites using zencart before I took the plunge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Haggis

I will simply say (Amazon's) staggering arrogance is worthy of doing a trump (see british slang), ...

---

I had to Google this because I had never heard this phrase, despite spending 30 years in Canada. Here you go, US Zenners:

http://english.stackexchange.com/que...eaking-of-wind

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pricediscrimination

Update Part 1:

• It's crazy that clicking a main category does not show the products contained in the subcategories. The point of a category system is to organize, but shouldn't create more clicks than nessecary if the user doesn't want to narrow it down more. If you sell shoes, some are dress and others are trainers, but why can't we just see all the freakin' shoes when clicking Shoes? The point of clicking Shoes was so not to see Shirts in the mix!

---

I know this is quite old, but hopefully not obsolete... Have you seen this? I'm still looking for people who'd like to test it out before I release it as a plugin, so any help would be greatly appreciated... :smile:

For anyone interested to help me out and test the plugin, please PM me for the link so we don't hijack and spam this thread... https://www.zen-cart.com/images/smilies/smile.gif I really appreciate the help, but we should keep the thread on topic...

Thank you! Will check it out right now. The very fact that this has to be hacked is another reason why this thread was started in the first place. An ecommerce based software that does not even have effective breadcrumbs that help with usability and bounce rate. The category structure is atrocious, and begs users to give up in finding anything to buy. All of these things are SEO basics in 2016.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by balihr

I know this is quite old, but hopefully not obsolete... Have you seen this? I'm still looking for people who'd like to test it out before I release it as a plugin, so any help would be greatly appreciated... :smile:

For anyone interested to help me out and test the plugin, please PM me for the link so we don't hijack and spam this thread... https://www.zen-cart.com/images/smilies/smile.gif I really appreciate the help, but we should keep the thread on topic...

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pricediscrimination

Update Part 1:

• How many people actually use Item Weight? Seriously how many of you actually go get your item, put it on a scale, then update Item Weight for your shoppers to see? It's great as an example or filler, but would be nice if you were able to add other things that are more useful for quick editing in product.php.

---

While you may find it hard to understand why anyone would use Item Weight I find it hard to understand why anyone wouldn't use item weight.

If you are selling a physical item, that item needs to be shipped.

If you are shipping, the cost of shipping is largely dependent on weight.

In order to quote correct real time shipping rates to customers your weights need to be correct (especially if an order contains many individual items all with different rates.)

So yes, when we add products to our sites (there are a couple) we literally weigh them on a scale. We also measure them because we created a custom volume shipping method as well.

Quote:

---

While you may find it hard to understand why anyone would use Item Weight I find it hard to understand why anyone wouldn't use item weight.
If you are selling a physical item, that item needs to be shipped.
If you are shipping, the cost of shipping is largely dependent on weight.
In order to quote correct real time shipping rates to customers your weights need to be correct (especially if an order contains many individual items all with different rates.)
So yes, when we add products to our sites (there are a couple) we literally weigh them on a scale. We also measure them because we created a custom volume shipping method as well.

---

Ditto in all respects, I could not have put it better myself...

i find it hard to understand how people can not see that no one shopping cart solution can do everything for all stores. attributes for one store are not the same as needed as for another. not every store wants to tell people who manufactured the product they are selling.

one can build an item object and have all of the attributes necessary for that object and then have a nightmare to maintain it; i.e. magento. different stores have different requirements.

if a store sells all of the same items, i.e. t-shirts or wine; each product weighs about the same. so i can see a situation where the need to enter weight is not needed.

i have a client who fastidiously attempts to keep weights accurate because they do quote based on weight. but ensuring that you have accurate weights in the system does NOT ensure accurate rate quoting. perhaps some of you have heard of dimensional weight; for a particular size box, the carrier charges you a minimum weight. so lets say you sell a 15"x24"x2" plastic tray that fits into a box slightly bigger. the tray weighs under 2 lbs; however the dimensional weight is closer to 8 lbs. what weight does one put into the system in order to quote the customer an accurate rate? 8 lbs? okay, lets say they go with 8. another customer orders 2 of said tray. the 2 trays stack very nicely together and fit into the same size box. now, are you quoting them a 16 lb package or a 4 lb package? or what? and a bigger shop with a distribution facility now has packers and who knows if a larger order will fit into 1 box or 2 boxes. and how does one quote that?

for some stores, weight is important. other stores, weight is not.

again, i realize a shopping cart is not a one size fits all. what blows me away is that people complain when they feel that the cart should do exactly what they need, thinking that their needs are the same as the next persons.

best.

I have to add my 2c as well.

Here are my major points why I still use Zen Cart for most of my stores:

- Lots of features
- Plugins for many downfalls are available free of charge with support on this forum
- easy to make changes to code
- Performance
- SEO friendly (with CEON URL installed near to perfect)

Major points/features why I keep looking elsewhere:

- No guest checkout, mod that is available still does not allow guest checkout if previously registered the same email. :frusty:
- No short checkout out of the box. Offered solutions were hard to implement, merge with other mods and there were security concerns too with it.
- price auto update on option selection
- replace main image with option image (swap in image of selected option), then carry forward to shopping cart. Say you selected a yellow t-shirt, you will see it in the cart (and not the blue main image).

Stuff that is a bit of a drag but not a deal breaker:
- slow development to a more modern system overall
- responsive base template with header menu shopping cart that shows # of items in it. Ann has created some cool templates but they are not easy to change. The base responsive is too basic.:blush:
- Better image management out of the box. Pretty much every system I look at has a drag and drop feature plus an media manager built in.

One of the newer solutions that I have been playing with is Abantecart. Absolutely great modern feel and easy to get going with. It has just a few features missing that bum me out. A good sale maker is one of the features missing. It is a pretty new solution and I'm just not sure how it will fair on security issues and long term development. There are a lot of SaaS solutions available that are strong contenders too. 3dcart has a lot of good stuff going IMHO. Tried to get a sense of Magento 2 but it seems still very daunting task to get the hang of it plus lots of extension are pretty pricey.


I so wish Zen Cart could catch up at a faster pace.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mydanilo

I have to add my 2c as well.

Here are my major points why I still use Zen Cart for most of my stores:

- Lots of features
- Plugins for many downfalls are available free of charge with support on this forum
- easy to make changes to code
- Performance
- SEO friendly (with CEON URL installed near to perfect)

Major points/features why I keep looking elsewhere:

- No guest checkout, mod that is available still does not allow guest checkout if previously registered the same email. :frusty:
- No short checkout out of the box. Offered solutions were hard to implement, merge with other mods and there were security concerns too with it.
- price auto update on option selection
- replace main image with option image (swap in image of selected option), then carry forward to shopping cart. Say you selected a yellow t-shirt, you will see it in the cart (and not the blue main image).

Stuff that is a bit of a drag but not a deal breaker:
- slow development to a more modern system overall
- responsive base template with header menu shopping cart that shows # of items in it. Ann has created some cool templates but they are not easy to change. The base responsive is too basic.:blush:
- Better image management out of the box. Pretty much every system I look at has a drag and drop feature plus an media manager built in.

One of the newer solutions that I have been playing with is Abantecart. Absolutely great modern feel and easy to get going with. It has just a few features missing that bum me out. A good sale maker is one of the features missing. It is a pretty new solution and I'm just not sure how it will fair on security issues and long term development. There are a lot of SaaS solutions available that are strong contenders too. 3dcart has a lot of good stuff going IMHO. Tried to get a sense of Magento 2 but it seems still very daunting task to get the hang of it plus lots of extension are pretty pricey.


I so wish Zen Cart could catch up at a faster pace.

---

Huh, each of the why elsewhere search appear to me that haven't looked at what IS available... guest checkout: COWOA as far as I have seen, done deal and as far as understood about "short checkout" covers that as well (though there are plans afoot to shorten it's process by a screen at least).
Price auto update? Entire plugin on having that (remember not everyone uses attributes, let alone pricing by attributes). See dynamic price updater.
Image swap? Really, a simple javascript command is reason to dump an entire package? There's also a plugin that was developed years ago that still works on recent versions that does the image swap and carries it over to the rest of the cart...

COWOA
Dynamic Price Updater
Attribute Image Replaces Main Image

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mc12345678

COWOA will not allow checkout without account if you have previously registered. I have many frustrated customer calls that struggle remembering pwd or fail to reset the old one. Make it easy, let them buy no matter what!
Dynamic Price UpdaterYes, I have used it. Should be out of the box.
Attribute Image Replaces Main Image

---

Used it too but ran into issues with other zoom mods and or imagehandler. Also did not carry forward the selected attribute image to the cart last time I checked. If out of the box we would not have to merge and toy/program around with it.

So yes, if you are an experienced programmer you can make all these mods work for you. Merge them, upgrade them, carry them forward with every Zen Cart upgrade. I dread it every time to merge them all into new Z versions. Sometimes old mods don't get updated or they conflict with others suddenly in new versions. That is the struggle and frustration that I am talking about. Every upgrade requires a careful rebuilt of everything if you have plenty of mods to rely on. If some, and I know some will, would become core I would be way more at ease tackling upgrades.

I wish Zen Cart would become a system with an upgrade path that can be handled by an everyday shop owner with basic to no code knowledge. Just look what AbanteCart has as front end functionality out of the box. Image swap on option selection, option dependencies, image zoom, dynamic price updater, cart in header (hover over it and you see what is in it), guest checkout possible even if registered an account before. Only complaint on AbanteCart is the checkout flow, still too long and no one page or shorter checkout mod available just yet. No sale maker ether. :( Here is a link to the demo store with a product with options http://demo.abantecart.com/shoes/new...p-flop-sandals

I'm currently working on migrating a shop to 3dcart for a client/friend and I am blown away by it. I get so frustrated going back to see what we still don't have here. Sure, 3dcart is a Saas solution and you have the monthly fee. I think the strong bunch of SaaS offerings are pretty fast eroding the free open source carts.

If you can't program/merge code for the needed functionality yourself and you end up hiring a contractor to do it, your cost of getting Zen Cart running will be quiet high. Also if you have a number of mods installed, every ZC upgrade is going to cost you time or money. You might as well just go pay a monthly fee where the upgrades are taken care of.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mydanilo

If you can't program/merge code for the needed functionality yourself and you end up hiring a contractor to do it, your cost of getting Zen Cart running will be quiet high. Also if you have a number of mods installed, every ZC upgrade is going to cost you time or money. You might as well just go pay a monthly fee where the upgrades are taken care of.

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There is one thing you're missing here: with Zen Cart, you can build exactly what you want. All hosted systems have limitations that you can't customize your way out of.

Does hosted e-commerce make sense for some businesses? Of course. But don't act like you're not giving something up, because you are.

Now that I'm starting to understand this stuff, no way I'm dropping zen. :onfire:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by swguy

There is one thing you're missing here: with Zen Cart, you can build exactly what you want. All hosted systems have limitations that you can't customize your way out of.

Does hosted e-commerce make sense for some businesses? Of course. But don't act like you're not giving something up, because you are.

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You are right on. That's why I keep pushing and rooting for Zen Cart to get closer to more modern carts out there. Zen Cart has a lot going for it. If you are knowledgeable enough, you can create almost anything. It's just not that easy to maintain after it has lot's of customizations. Wouldn't it be nice if a ZC upgrade with many plugins would be as easy as it is with a Wordpress site? Who would even touch Option Cart or Prestashop or Woocommerce (with all the expensive plugins) if ZC was giving us just a bit more modern stuff out of the box and an easier upgrade path? The few points I mentioned are really what keeps me even looking elsewhere. ZC is great once you have all your plugins running and the shop does what you want. Just hate every new release to hope and beg that all my dear plugins get updated. Unfortunately my programming skills are not good enough to contribute more. I'd love if I could. What I can contribute is my input on what IMHO would make ZC a better system that could gain more non programmer followers. I run my own stores and advice others on what solutions would be a fit. I found myself recommending other solutions more and more often these days but still use ZC myself. Funny, no?

i recalled this thread today, can't believe so much time has passed!

In a nutshell, I had a problem I couldn't fix with my Zencart, I asked my web hosts who are also programmers to take a look but as they were unfamiliar with the platform offered to rebuild my site on their preferred platform, Opencart.

I paid them thousands of pounds and a year later I have a site I really like the look of but there are still a bunch of snags, they are faltering in fixing them, i'm happy to have a mess about myself but I can't find the info and the Opencart forum is no help.

At around the same time I tried to rebuild another site we have on Opencart (nice to have everything the same and learn a new way of doing stuff) but have since reverted back to Zencart.

So, my opinion as I now stand, Zencart is not as pretty out of the box, but if you aren't a programming expert it is miles easier to get the necessary information to get a job done using Zencart than it is with Opencart.

Your mileage may well vary but my experience so far is that if you hit a snag with Opencart, you may well find yourself high and dry whereas with Zencart it's infinitely more likely that you'll find the info or someone will be forthcoming with assistance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EyefulTower

So, my opinion as I now stand, Zencart is not as pretty out of the box, but if you aren't a programming expert it is miles easier to get the necessary information to get a job done using Zencart than it is with Opencart.

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I am a programming expert. It is miles easier to use Zen Cart than OpenCart. :)

The best platform is you have the best programmer to manage everything on your site :)) Many sales => best platform :P

As a reminder to all users, this is a forum about Zen Cart. Agitating for other carts is a violation of forum rules, and will get you banned. If you want to talk about WooCommerce, they have their own forum, so please go there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by swguy

As a reminder to all users, this is a forum about Zen Cart. Agitating for other carts is a violation of forum rules, and will get you banned. If you want to talk about WooCommerce, they have their own forum, so please go there.

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While Zen Cart needs further development, it is still by far one of the best open source self hosted options for ecommerce. Yes there are some flaws in some parts of the cart, but it does much more than other carts in an easier way. You do need to understand PHP and MYSQL, plus CSS and HTML etc to make it work well for you. But there are good reasons to use Zen Cart, over and above other carts that I shall not mention.

For a start it has great tools for SEO that you have FULL control over. Also, it is FREE to download and FREE to set up. Unlike others that tie you into a monthly payment plan or simply cost astronomical amounts if you want to make them work properly for your website. Not only that, many of the modifications on Zen-cart.com are FREE too, unlike others that charge each time you want to add something on. And where others mods are FREE, you often find that they don't work as you wish and you end having to either pay for a premium version, or try to re-work them so they work well for you. So if you end up having to Pay, pay pay....your bill for setting up your shopping cart can become quite high by the time you get it live. AND then you have to make it earn money...BUT, what happens if it doesn't work as you thought and you end up having to ditch it and its cost a fortune to set up? You don't have this problem with Zen Cart, as the cost for setting it up is relatively low, even if you get a developer like myself to design it for you.

The template system for Zen Cart is also responsive and meets mobile standards. Once you start digging into it, you actually realise that it is very user friendly. There are lots of other template systems out there that aren't so user friendly. The idea of the Responsive Classic Template, like Template Default and Classic, is that the clutter is minimal. This makes it easier for a developer of a template to design around the code and develop in a professional way.

Why would you want to use a template that looks like someone else's brand anyway? When your business should be concentrating on creating its own brand. Hence the requirement to design a template from scratch and work with the template system developed in Zen Cart for this kind of development. And believe me, the template system in Zen Cart is hugely expansive and made for creativity. Unlike other carts that offer more or less the same layouts and you are limited to putting graphics where they say or how they say. Hence why some all look the same apart from the actual graphics.

Why I'm sticking to zencart :
https://www.zen-cart.com/showthread....-and-I-m-sorry

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Originally Posted by mesnitu

Why I'm sticking to zencart :
https://www.zen-cart.com/showthread....-and-I-m-sorry

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There's another great reason, the code in Zen Cart is optimised and lightweight. Making it faster than other carts that become sluggish once they reach a certain level. You don't have this with Zen Cart. Plus it has mods to make your site run faster as well. I am fully aware of how slow the one you mentioned in your other post can become. It is a nightmare in all honesty. And I refuse to use it.

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Originally Posted by Nick1973

It is a nightmare in all honesty.

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It's a crime!

Tortures of the damned. I feign deafness when I am asked about it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jack_

If zencart is not suitable for your business, you should try to migrate to another cart and find a platform such as zencart to woocommerce

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Good luck on that one then!
Tried that for a favour for someone, cost money for basic add ons. Constant updates. Never again.

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Originally Posted by ianhg

Good luck on that one then!
Tried that for a favour for someone, cost money for basic add ons. Constant updates. Never again.

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Ha ha is that a joke? Even worse, Storeya and then stay there for the rest of your business duration because you can't move away. Suckered in like!

Interesting read, thanks everyone, as it's been a while since I was in here... Great to see some familiar names on this thread. :-)

I have the dreaded upgrade to do... from 1.3.9h to whatever it is now... yeah yeah I know, but life gets busy and other priorities take place... and I have a new website to write as I'm branching a section of my business off, and have been trying to decide what to do.

I am pleased to say after looking at some Zencart templates online, that some are looking very pretty... so now I'm stuck trying to decide which one to go with.

However, my biggest issue I have is payment modules, as I have to do stock checks first as my inventory system is in MYOB AccountRight (manual on my pc) and then request payments... otherwise I could be forever crediting people when it gets busy. Is there an easy way to repopulate stock rather than going into every description? Can I add different quantities to attributes?

Does Zencart now allow for the product page to show when it was last updated, as well as when it was created? I'm busy updating my descriptions with clinical research, and I would like them to show as being current as my site has been going since 2006; prior to that it was with Online Merchant (1999).

That's my 2 cents worth from Middle Earth :-)

The best way to get an answer to a question is to post one question in a relevant thread or section of the forum. Your post has nothing to do with this thread, which deters people from answering and making the thread even more off-topic.