Things every New Zenner needs to know

PRE-EMPTIVE EDIT:

A lot of documentation has been added to the NEW Knowledgebase:
https://docs.zen-cart.com/user/



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Original discussion:
New Zen Cart users get easily frustrated. They often do not know how to find answers to their questions and if they stumble onto the right answer they don't realize it's the right answer. The recent 'reboot' for the forum so closely on the heels of the upgrade to 1.3 seems to have made things worse.

I am considering writing a "Getting Started" style document that focuses on templates, overrides, colors, text, images and the like. Perhaps a reasonable title will be "Top 10 Questions asked by New Zenners" or "10 things every New Zenner should know but doesn't know where to find."

I would like to hear from New Zenners about this project. What did you have the most trouble with? What documents did you feel were lacking? What were the top problems and questions you had? -- Things like that.

Part of the rationale for this project is that as users can perform more tasks without having to post a thread like "I am such a newb and have no idea what I am doing" it will free the Devs for more time in core upgrades. Hopefully, users that are more successful at the beginning will press on and have a viable online business and donate back to Zen Cart.

I will be away from the forum for a few days (niece's wedding) this weekend. Further, I don't plan to reply to every post. This is a place to collect feedback from new users.

If more experienced users post, perhaps you could list the mistakes you most often see.

The final location for the project is uncertain. In many ways, it will be a duplicate of material in the FAQ and Wiki. However, much of that material needs to be updated and New Zenners seem to not read it or not understand it. I will continue to try to coordinate this with the Devs so that it benefits the most in the community.

Please presume a successful install of ZenCart 1.3+. I would like to focus on customizations issues that every new users is likely to experience.

Feel free to PM with info you would rather not be in the forum.

Bruce,

To get you started, here are two of of the most common questions I've seen.

How do I change the "sales message goes here" text.

How do I change/turn off "Welcome Guest" message.

I also see lots of questions on modifing the tpl_product_info_display.php

Let me know if you would like some help with the project.

PS.

Ryk had a really good primer on preparing images for Zen Cart

Here's a link for his tutorial

There are several other "sticky" HOW TOs in the archived forum that might be useful to pull together.

If you need help with the paypal let me know,
I need to update the current paypal tutorial anyway might as well put it all in one place

1) How to add a logo and remove "sales message goes here"
2) How to centre a logo
3) How do attributes work - in plain english
4) How to understand what a CSS file is telling you, so you can edit it yourself!
5) What are the main PHP files that zenners tend to edit for layout, and what does each one do? For example, to work on my sideboxes...which php?

6) Why is it a bad idea to modify the custom template and install a blank one in a "custom" folder. I have this, and still don't understand why.


Nat

I would like to see a solid and thorough explanation on ZenCart's CSS. What to change for a specific effect, etc. Especially since 1.3x is more CSS based, and that seems to be the direction for future releases as well.

A well thought out, well commented tutorial with a fully commented (NO abbreviations) CSS file example would help newbies and struggling intermediates tremendously.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wtashby

I would like to see a solid and thorough explanation on ZenCart's CSS. What to change for a specific effect, etc. Especially since 1.3x is more CSS based, and that seems to be the direction for future releases as well.

A well thought out, well commented tutorial with a fully commented (NO abbreviations) CSS file example would help newbies and struggling intermediates tremendously.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

---

Yep, I agree. I would even give away my very last piece of chocolate if I only knew how to navigate properly around the zen css.

The things that have helped me the most would be the programs that you can use to edit this stuff to make it easier, like dreamweaver and the fact that you can search for code of more than one file, so as to when you see something on the page that you want to change, and you have no clue how to do this, you download a backup copy of all your stuff and then search it all at one time with dreamweaver, that has been great! Also there is a css program called top something, i will post back what it is later when I get to my home computer, I don't have it on my work pc.

The wiki docs and faq are good, but....it would be great if we could get some example pics on what to do.

Also a basic definition list would be great! or coder slang, sometimes im so lost just by what people are saying, I know that the answer is there, but I just can't get it, b/c I don't know what people mean. I will post more on this when I get home, thanks for the good topic!:thumbsup:

1) Basic skeleton of ZenCart. All those files/directories/subdirectories and extra folders look like a big pile of spaghetti to new people. And we're looking for the short noodle...

2)terms, terms terms and more terms. New people do not understand code terms, most web terms and most php terms. (im speaking in general here)

3) This forum. It's huge, it's vast and it's hard to search when you don't know the NAME of thing/answer/whatever you need. The FAQ's and the Wiki only work if Numbers 1& 2 (see above)
are NOT a problem for the person. For reg. newbies, both items are present, rendering the FAQ and Wiki stuff pretty much just as confusing.

4) CODE. Point blank. Opening one of the css docs or php docs (unless you're a code/php knowing dude, thus NOT a newb) is like trying to read DNA when you're a sandwich maker.

5) How to phrase problems/errors/questions. We need a KISS kinda statement like: Error mssg. Server type. Cart type. Attach file here. That's not a good example but you get the point.

6) See numbers ONE AND FOUR ......

7) The override system. Makes no sense when you read the basic everyday reply in a post. We need to know NUMBER ONE (like a blank diagram would be amazing) and then we need to know WHERE SPECIFICALLY the /whatever/ folder goes. Zen cart is quite a huge expandable tree and thus very easy to get LOST in. Trying to know where to put a /whatever/ folder when we don't know where anything else is doesn't work.

8) SEE NUMBERS ONE AND FOUR.



(please don't think I am complaining or trying to bad bag ZenCart. I love this thing, but that's honestly as real newb what my issues are when I got onboard and installed)

OH OH and ...


A BLANK with comments basic CSS document. Meaning: NOT a blank sheet with CSS Document on top. BUT a REAL FULLY CODED sheet with the stuff taken out and instructions/description put in it's place. So someone can copy to their CSS editor, and use it as an actual template to create other, correct, pages. I so so tried to do this on my own and WOW what CLUSTER I turned it into. :(

I think thats a really good idea. i know i had need of this when i was starting, and probably still do
im not going to restate what everyone else has said, but im not going to restate it or quote it.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

my template is based off the custom template, in a different folder with a different name of course. If there is a problem with that, it needs to be stated clearly and it also needs to be mentioned in the install. So I agree about that.

Also I second the explination on attributes, I know zen cart is very powerful and can do a lot of things, but some of the options I just don't understand. Also, how come you make an option name like "color" and give it a whole bunch of options, but then when you go to add an option to a product, you have to select each option name and each option individually, so you can put an option like "extra large" in an option name of "color" or what not... I got it to work and everything, but it's either designed poorly or I don't understand it.

Also an explination of what's modified in the overrides and what's modified in the admin, because sometimes I looked for stuff in overrides and it was in the admin, and the developers tool kit doesn't search the admin (database) as far as I can tell, so it can be very frustrating. (I had this problem when trying to figure out how to remove the prefix of "|_" for sub directories.

In fact, there should be a write up on every single option available in the admin and what it can do. The structure of the write up should be the same as the admin, that is, on the admin home you have a list of options, and all options have sub options. In the write up the categories should breakdown exactly the same way so if I see an option somewhere and I'm like "what does that do?" I can quickly and easily find it. And it should be searchable, and every little option should have a description with common search string meta tag type things so that if I search for "subcategory prefix" the thing will pop up that controls that.

Yes, that would be awesome.

An explination on the following options while adding a product for sale:
Product Qty Units:
Product Qty Units Mix on/off:

Bruce,
a fantastic idea indeed :) It seems like many people have already called out the areas I struggled with most.
A list of free tools would be quite helpful - I was already a Firefox convert, and if I wasn't already, the web developer tools would have won me over.

The Override system should definitely be included (or rather perhaps the link to the FAQ).

Having everything summarized tidily somewhere woudld be absolutely wonderful.
If you need a proof reader, let me know :)

I would point out that every new zenner would prefer to customize their template to suit their styles in the first place. So, a complete tutorial to guide novice in modifying the default templates is much appreciated.

Great suggestions! Great project! Afterall, everyone starts out as a newbie.

Lots of newbie questions about setting permissions on files. An explanation
of how to CHMOD permission changes from the FTP program and also through
cpanel would be very helpful.

Two things that helped me a lot was the FAQ manual and an administrator's
user manual (thru ver 1.1.2) in .pdf on the old forum. I downloaded both
and printed out the admin manual and put it in a spiral notebook
for quick reference. I still have the .zip file of both if it would be helpful.

:thumbsup:

As a recently very new zenner these are just some tips I would give. As I think of more I will post again (if I can find the post lol).

1. Once you have a clean LIVE working version of your site, download it to your local PC. Then when you want to change messages such as "Sales Message Goes Here" or copyright info etc, search for that text string using the search on your PC on the local copy. Then change locally and upload.

2. The advice to use a decent text editor should not be ignored. Crimson Text editor is great!

3. When downloading and installing user contributions from this site that require overwrites of existing files e.g orders.php (two contributions that need this file are at a glance and ukswitch payment modules) be very careful.

I first installed ukswitch, then added ataglance, both use orders.php. I blindly overwrote the ukswitch version of orders.php with the ataglance version. Needless to say the ukswitch module stopped working properly!

This might be obvious to most but wasn't to me!

Ciao!
Z

I suggest you take a complete newbie and watch what happens when he/she tries to set up the shop. This person needs to have the motivation of an entrepreneur.

Yes, the forums are big. I've had to wade through 80 to 100 pages of discussion to find a small crumb of information, for example "how do you tell the cart you have a template of your own?"
It doesn't help that very much information was hidden when I needed help.
I was looking for something else and landed on page 15 of a long discussion. Someone asked the question for the second time, and the answer was "I already answered you". Go back to page 1 and start looking. You find it on page 5 hidden into something else.
The wiki tells you how great the override system is, and how you should have parallel custom files and folders, but it doesn't tell "how the cart will know about them". Or then I'm blind.

Maybe it's blindness for self-evident things. They are not self-evident for a complete novice.

The things that have caused the most work:
The template system
PayPal IPN (still unresolved; server port 443 is used by another client for SSL)
How to change Page 2 to About us. I did all the changes in php myself, read through one 80-page discussion printed out, and wrote one line into the database. It works now.
CHMOD settings too strictly set.

Things I expect to cause work:
Translations of the customer interface into two more languages, unless someone else comes up with them for 1.3.0.1.

I'm still a happy zen follower, and realize I've saved a huge lot of money for my company to set this up alone. And I'm very grateful for all the time you guys have put on this forum and the wiki.
I'm an engineer who has studied a dozen other programming languages but not php.

I think just about everything has been covered. As a complete noob to ZenCart and PHP, I've managed to do quite well so far (I'm at the payment processing / shipping module stuff now). I could have done everything faster, but with the ZenCart website change, I was lost for a while. Below are my thoughts in order of importance;

1. A clear skeletal diagram of the interworkings of ZenCart to help noobs understand file/folder interaction would eliminate lots of pointless posts.

2. ZenCart CSS issues. I lot of users have had problems with the CSS, mostly due to lack of searching. Here's what I did (since it had been about 7 years since I had looked at a CSS document), printed out the stylesheet and wrote notes. Haven't had any CSS questions since.

3. The Template over-ride. A clear explination of what's being modified in the overrides and what's modified in the admin.

I've been happy with ZenCart. I used MivaMerchant about 6 years ago and I find ZenCart to be much cleaner. Keep up the good work!

May want to include some info I posted here...
http://www.zen-cart.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35793

JollyJim was building a Zen Cart tutorial site at:
http://##############.helpfiles.co.uk/

Looks like it might be on hold? Certainly showed some promise.

Woody

What directories all the images are in. IE: buttons, icons, images etc.

Thanks to all for excellent input. Feel free to encourage other new users to post their questions in this thread. More feedback will likely produce a better quality document.

It is GOOD to repeat a question from a previous post. It will help us gauge how many people are struggling with that particular problem. The explanation does not have to be long, just a basic questions list.

No one is alarmed or offended by the frank portrayal of the frustration you are going through. One of the major themes in this project is to decide how to help new users with limited programming experience.

Please be as specific as possible. It is already clear that we need a dictionary or glossary. When you say, "I don't know what any of this means" it would be more helpful to say, "I don't what a breadcrumb is" or "What is file comparison?"

Please continue to post links to urls and/or threads that gave helpful explanations. I will contact the authors about using their material.

Thanks to several seasoned users that have taken already interest.

I completely agree on the glossary idea. Though I don't have any specific examples at the moment, but what confused me the most was commerce and buisness type jargon.

Also, there is a LOT of good info out there in the forum, but as already mentioned, it can be a real pain to find. Setting up shipping calculators was a bit confusing for me (all the abbreviations and options??? I was only familiar with like 6 different shipping options, 3 for UPS and 3 for USPS, I have little to no idea what most of the differences are in those, or even how to ship in that method).

Setting up the tax class could use some explination too, for some reason it defaults for "florida" and I had a hard time figuring out how to add "Massachusetts"

Also, the currency conversion was wrong I believe (US Dollars converted to Euro), it was the inverse of what it was supposed to be, that is it calculated the Euro as less valuable than the Dollar, but in fact it is more valuable. Also, setting up a system to automatically retrieve this information from a website would be sweet, since currency conversions change daily. But I guess this is getting into a suggestion for later versions of zen cart, not a noob tutorial.

My bf has done most of my store so I didn't run into certain things, but since he has become busy with school and his store I have tried to do things on my own.

My problems have been those darn button/banners. Explain in simple turns how they work and which ones rotate and which do not. I have finally got mine to work.

The basic attributes weren't such a problem since I have done them before, but the problem I am having now is how to upload files onto the site so the customer doesn't have to email me their pic seprate. Which btw no one has answered yet.

If I think of more I will post again but those are the two problems I'm having with.

BTW this is a great idea!!!

Jessica

If need to prepare images of screen capture and flash moives for the purposes of demo and tutor.
Please refer to a freeware Wink
Its a Win program, easy to use and can produce smaller file size.

.

I'd love a tour of the admin panel, it took me about a fortnight to explore it properly and there are still bits I dont touch because I'm unclear exactly what they do! I kind of get paranoid that all kinds of wierd stuff will occur when my cart goes live, because I wont have fully configured the thing. I do appreciate that thats a huge ask, though.

Thank you so much for doing this, its people like yourself who make using zencart a bit less scary for people like me who have no computer smarts. :thumbsup:

I would like to see a clear explanation of the how to make basic changes like to the header banner and which files control which changes. The most confusing part of Zen Cart is you have to deal with three or more separate files to make simple changes, Also the word Override is very confusing, translate that at the beginning. Doesn't it mean your making a custom page? See I still don't know what it means. The FAQ section leaves a lot of things out or is too hard to find. Nobody wants to spend a hour looking through the FAQ and you still can't find what you're looking for. The FAQ needs to be re-written. Also a better explanation for making your own custom pages. It's so confusing now I wouldn't even try to make any custom pages outside of just changing the header banner.

Keep it simple.

Thanks

Additional worthy items for your list:

- How to backup shoppe, including file directories and database.
- Include applicable database lingo in the Glossary.
- Mention phpmyadmin.
- Mention DB prefixes.
- Mention patching store DB (via admin).
- Tools for batch product uploads.
- Mention XHTML and CSS validation.
- Basic reference to security issues, directing store owners to specific documentation.
- Document the pre-flight check for zc_install process.
- Document post install recommends.
- Light reference to 3rd party install scripts (e.g. Fantastico). Semi-automated install processes are used more often these days, hiding many of the configuration details from the storeowner. (i.e. what is configure.php anyway?)

PayPal.

I opened my shop this week.
The orders don't show up in admin, but the payments come in.
Embarrassed to ask the customer what he/she bought.

I went through Merlin's tutorial, and a lot of stuff found on the forum. Nothing has helped. The shop is on a shared Linux server and port 80 is available. I don't use SSL, but plan to, and will have to use another port instead of 443. But that's the future...

All the addresses are correctly filled in both in admin and at PayPal. I have reloaded the paypal parts from the fresh unzip, uninstalled and reinstalled.

I have changed the permissions on the ipn_main_handler and checkout_process to 755.

But I have no idea what else I could do!

Then, when I log into PayPal, the footer talks about PayPal UK. But the URL on top starts with paypal.com and no uk. But on the other hand, the payments go through, so the address to paypal must be correct? - I'm in Europe.

If I get no information into admin about the purchases, how is is possible that they are completed at paypal? They have then received an answer to the post from my server??? (I read the PayPal instructions with a magnifying glass!)

So, please, when you update your tutorials/instructions, try to make it as comprehensive as possible.

Thankyou.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wtashby

I would like to see a solid and thorough explanation on ZenCart's CSS. What to change for a specific effect, etc. Especially since 1.3x is more CSS based, and that seems to be the direction for future releases as well.

A well thought out, well commented tutorial with a fully commented (NO abbreviations) CSS file example would help newbies and struggling intermediates tremendously.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

---

a comment for each code will be a great help for us to know what that code affects/changes

More thanks for the feedback.

Not to disappoint, but I cannot write "Everything you ever wanted to know about Zen Cart." It would be too massive a project.

Every topic mentioned above is worthy of detailed instruction. Someone else will have to handle most of them however. I need to focus on helping brand new Zen users deal with the most critical needs in customizing their cart.

Also, simpler and clearer instructions will require more reading not less. No article or tutorial can substitute for hard work, study and the editing process on the users part. There is no EASY explanation for Zen Cart.

My plan is to write, edit and gather materials that better adsress the issues that new Zen users have the most trouble understanding and implementing.

As you see posts by new users ask them to give feedback in this thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sermonzone

I cannot write "Everything you ever wanted to know about Zen Cart." It would be too massive a project...I need to focus on helping brand new Zen users deal with the most critical needs in customizing their cart...My plan is to write, edit and gather materials that better adsress the issues that new Zen users have the most trouble understanding and implementing.

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Question. What criteria to apply to decide "the most critical needs in customizing their cart" and delimit "the issues that new Zen users have the most trouble understanding and implementing"?

This is a rhetorical question, meaning you certainly will want to narrow down (define) your newbie criteria BEFORE emabarking on your doc project. Authoring the original docs is only half the battle, maintaining/updating the docs are the other half. Recommend writing in general terms, so that your docs will not require updating for every minor Zen Cart release and will not be a chore to maintain. Otherwise your docs could become quickly dated (e.g. contain incorrect info) and irrelevant.

Consider avoiding hard URL links to forum threads. As discovered, with the recent forum migration, URL's to quality stickies and other informative threads can become useless at a moments notice (e.g. just see all the dead URL's now lurking in the archived forums). Just my $0.02.

Documenting can be a thankless infinite task, if you let it be such.

I wish you good luck with your newbie doc project!

Woody

Woody,

My hope was to have new users tell us what they had trouble with. If new Zenners will list their biggest problems we could update the materials that answer those problems.

We are on the same page about simplicity and keeping docs current. I will PM a list of the first rough draft of questions.

TO NEW ZEN USERS - please list the issues you are having the most trouble with. If it repeats something posted earlier, that will tell us how important the topic is and make sure we include it in the revised docs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sermonzone

My hope was to have new users tell us what they had trouble with. If new Zenners will list their biggest problems we could update the materials that answer those problems.

---

They aleady have. The questions are posted in the forums ;-)

Quote:

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We are on the same page about simplicity and keeping docs current. I will PM a list of the first rough draft of questions.

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As I just stated many of the "questions" have already been answered in the forums. Especially in the forum archives. Many of the draft questions you PM'd me are quite broad. Books have been written on some the topic ;-) I recommend narrowing the scope. And why not post the list of questions to this thread than PM? Recommend searching the forums on Ajeh, Kim, DrByte, and Wilt (Zen Cart Devs who regularly post to the forums) and other community folks who have been around for awhile (Merlin, etc). You will find clear answers to many questions (or subset of your questions). Then if answers need fleshed out and/or questions remain then do ask around ;-)

Good luck.

Woody

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sermonzone

Woody,

My hope was to have new users tell us what they had trouble with. If new Zenners will list their biggest problems we could update the materials that answer those problems.

We are on the same page about simplicity and keeping docs current. I will PM a list of the first rough draft of questions.

TO NEW ZEN USERS - please list the issues you are having the most trouble with. If it repeats something posted earlier, that will tell us how important the topic is and make sure we include it in the revised docs.

---

In keeping with the spirit of this thread, I would like to repeat what I (and others) have stated, not only in earlier posts to this thread, but in many other threads as well.

CSS, CSS, CSS!

With Zen moving away from tables, and becomming more and more CSS oriented, nothing would help New Zenners more than a thourough and well commented explanation of ZenCart's CSS system.

I've studied many different online css sources and found that there is no "set" standard for css verbage. As long as the verbage in the css file and php(or html) files match, it works. By this I mean that Zen's CSS language is not the same as the CSS language you might find in other online resources. That can be VERY confusing to newbies.

So, by creating a tutorial based on ZenCart's Default Template CSS that not only tells, but shows where the classes, id's, div, etc. are, what they do and how to modify or customize them, would go a long LONG way to making life easier for us newbies (probaly some oldtimers too).

The other thing would be the override system (though this is well explained in the faq's)

Okay... in the interest of narrowing things down. Here are the two TOP problems/frustrations I encounter as a zen newbie



1) the physical structure of zen (what talks to what and where the heck does it live) A basic actual real outline saved as a .jpg or .gif or whatever the heck. Like a something you can actually look at and hold in your little hand. An expanded simplified tree. Catch my drift?

2) CSS layout. I mean: take a COMPLETE stylesheet. empty it so that the framework the (style/div/wrapper/thingys) is still there but the actual end part (width 100% etc. etc.) isn't and replace with color coded comments (BTW make comments all the SAME color, so we know exactly whats a comment) for EACH thingy... saying like "this is your sidebox" or "this is your actual thingy that makes your product appear" or whatever.

Everything I listed numerically above really are problems, but these TWO are the biggest. (for me anyways, I don't know for everyone else but I'm willing to bet most of us)

Both of these things can be made into downloadable tiny files you can print and tape to your desk/wall/pegboard/forehead whatever. You can make notes; you trace it with your finger if neccessary to figure out where that special little thingy lives that controls the other wonderful whatchamacallit.

Just ideas. I don't know if the Zen tree would be something doable. But honestly once a newbie had these two tools then they could really get a leg up on being much much more self sufficient. Combine this kinda thing with all the definitions/docs/and forum posts and they/we can find what we need, know where it goes, and know where on the CSS thing to look and change something. Then we can learn more from there and start to become proficient.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ladysaat

[B]1) the physical structure of zen (what talks to what and where the heck does it live) A basic actual real outline saved as a .jpg or .gif or whatever the heck. Like a something you can actually look at and hold in your little hand. An expanded simplified tree. Catch my drift?

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Just an analogy - If you need to change a flat tire, do you really need to know how the entire car was built, and where all the parts are located OR do you just need to know that you have to jack the car up, remove the lug nuts, pull the flat tire off and replace it with the spare and replace the lug nuts.?

:D
Just playing devil's advocate a little bit here....

How do we get to the spare? Under the car or in the trunk.

If in the trunk, do we push a button in the glove box, on the remote, or have to use a key.

If underneath, do we have to crank it down?

If we have to crank it down...

Okay, I'll quit. And, yes, I agree that those things would be found in a basic manual IF someone knew what to look under in the index. Got a manual with my cell phone but even the Sprint reps can not tell me how to use the speaker phone feature!
:D

Every read the car manual?

Yeps ... got AAA too ... :cry:

Just saying there are times when you need an Illustrated Parts Breakdown.:D

I know it ... no clue how many times I started to write one of these and then got side tracked and then took the code to far on the update/upgrade to even make it worth trying to finish let alone fix ...

One of these days we will have one written ...

Until then all you get are the /docs ... the FAQs ... the WIKI ... the 1000s of questions and answers here on the forum ... the wonderful bunch of folks that take the time to answer all of these questions that are but a search away ... :cool:

Many shy away from the search ... or give up on the first half dozen to a dozen posts they look through ...

I kinda of have to laugh ... what's the worse that happens in searching and finding something unrealated? You might learn something that will help you an hour later? :P

Besides ... when is the last time an index in a manual actually took you to the right page the first time? And didn't you learn "something" neat for having at least read the first paragraph or two of the page unrealated to what you are looking for? :smile:

Nothing like a good search in the forum for 15 to 30 minutes to learn all kinds of neat things you never knew existed in Zen Cart ... and often times ... you will find the answer to your question at the same time ... :thumbsup:

Woody,

Quote:

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They aleady have. The questions are posted in the forums ;-)

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and I spent several hours counting the questions that appeared most often.

Quote:

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Many of the draft questions you PM'd me are quite broad. Books have been written on some the topic ;-) I recommend narrowing the scope.

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Other than CSS, what seems broad to you? Regarding CSS, I am nearly at a loss for how to help some new users. CSS is much more complex than manyh new users realize.

Quote:

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And why not post the list of questions to this thread than PM?

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Willing to do that. You should know by now that some users don't know how to ask the right questions and they don't know the right answer when they see it. I thought it would be better to discuss the list with other users that are helping answer questions. Will post the questions I shared via PM below. Not trying to hide anything.

Quote:

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Recommend searching the forums on Ajeh, Kim, DrByte, and Wilt (Zen Cart Devs who regularly post to the forums) and other community folks who have been around for awhile (Merlin, etc). You will find clear answers to many questions (or subset of your questions).

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These are folks I respect tremendously for their work on Zen Cart. I gathered a series of topics and FAQ's and posted it to give guidance to new users. I refer somone to that post nearly every day. I also hear new users saying they don't understand the FAQ and/or posts. IMO, this happens because

1. Zen Cart, CSS, php , e-commerce, etc. is more difficult than most new users reaslize
2. Too many new post questions before they have not even tried looking for an answer
3. The combination of a new release and the forum reboot after the sql attack and
4. New users have less and less prior knowledge of basic programming skills and don't understand the FAQ's as written.

Quote:

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Then if answers need fleshed out and/or questions remain then do ask around ;-)

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Thought that is what I was doing.

Certainly open to guidance from the Devs and other forum leaders on this. If it a waste of anyone's time, detracts from the community, goes in the wrong direction or has a better way to be done, please let me know.

Here is the list questions I have considered so far. It is first draft list and will likely change substantially before it is published.

Feel free to comment.

1. Glossary of common Zen Cart and programming terms.
2. List of useful tools and software.
3. What is the Override template system?

What if we started with a clean install of the cart and then just did a step-by-step look at the edits a new zenner would typically make in setting up their cart? The following questions might all be answered in that approach.

4. How to remove the "sales message goes here" text.
5. How to change or turn off "Welcome Guest" message.
6. How to add and position a new logo
7. How to find and edit php files in the template. Layout, sideboxes, etc.
8. What directories all the images are in. IE: buttons, icons, images etc.

Also -

9. CSS - With the advent of 1.3 there are many CSS questions.
10. How to set up Paypal.
11. Misc topics reviewing security, backup, etc. This may be "Things new users didn't know to ask."
12. List of other quality tutorials on a variety of topics.

Hi Bruce

This would be great if it was all located in a wiki...

Well... for me, my top five would be...

1. How to make your Admin secure via SSL would be handy.
For example, I've only got it so the little golden locket is only on when I log in, but when I'm viewing orders its off. How to fix?

2. How to work out the sideboxes.
Ie: replacing a banner from within one to the one I wanted. How to put a picture inside a sidebox, text in a sidebox, etc.

3. More detailed comments in css would be handy as I don't know whats the name of the *bit of code* that I want to change the colour or even how to space out the products.
(and yes, I found my answer in the forum but it was hard going as I had no idea it was "called - spacer/padding")

4. How to add a new link to the top of the page (header.php) and a hyperlink to an external site (ie: your main home page)

5. The final pre-flight checklist BEFORE you go live.
What one needs to triple check before going live to the world.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sermonzone

If it a waste of anyone's time, detracts from the community, goes in the wrong direction or has a better way to be done, please let me know.

---

Certainly not! You are doing a great service and are to be commended!

A document which makes it "easier" for newbies to reference info that they will most cetainly need is very good thing. That kind of document would have been very handy when I first started with Zen Cart and probably would still be helpful to me now. that is why I am contributing ideas.

When I first started here I already had a backgorund in PHP, MYSQL CSS2, PHP, Apache, FTP, SSL, etc. But I still had to read, re-read and re-read the Zen Cart FAQ and the various readme docs to absorb many of the new ideas (e.g. overrides). I do feel for others without the prior experience I had.

And even now, when I think I have an improved grasp, a new issue pops up and knocks me on my ########. (I now consider myself as an 'Intermediate' not 'Advanced' Zen Cart user). Often enough I find that a solution I applied to one problem does not readily apply to another very similar problem. So reading and more reading to find a workaround is often the only solution. But this describes life in all aspects, not just Zen Cart customization work.

It comes down to this... if newbie store-owners are unwilling to invest in the "required" reading (e.g. on XHTML and CSS) before jumping into customizing Zen Cart, then they should hand over the "customization" project to someone else who has.

Help bait the first hook, and do the first cast if needed, but the reeling in part... well sometimes it is desirable to show folks how to reel it in too. Hopefully then they will be able to return the favor and teach others to do the same. This is the spirit in which I post here ;-)

With that said...

Regarding CSS, ALL newbies should be directed to the W3C CSS site for an overview of the CSS2.1 model. Even if CSS2.1 is still considered a "working draft", it is fairly well considered the standard - http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/

Required reading, no getting around it.

CSS v.3 is coming. But right now only basic CSS 2.1 proficiency is required for those who want to customize current version of Zen Cart. However be aware that new features exist in CSS3 which could also prove helpful to many Zen Cart customizers.

Important CSS 2.1 Categories -
relevant to Zen cart customization:

- Syntax, Selectors, Property Values, Cascading, Inheritance
- Box model, Visual formatting model, (Line box), Positioning
- Color, Backgrounds (& Borders)
- Tables, (Columns, Lists)
- Text (Layout, Text Effects)
- (Style)

(parentheses indicates new CSS3 categories which may also be helpful in customizing Zen Cart).

Another area to consider is browser CSS (and XHTML) support differences.

Direction to a quality website exist illustrating/comparing browser CSS support differences would be useful. . I thought I had a bookmark to a quality site describing how well IE7, IE6, Firefox 1.5, and latest Opera and Safari browsers, support CSS 2.1 and XHTML 1.0. But cannot locate right now.

I am repeating myself... Firefox Web Developer Extension is the easiest tool to use to display how CSS is applied to a Zen Cart site, and easiest tool for customizing the CSS.

CSS and XHTML work together. You want to know both!
http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/

Thus Zen Cart customizers need a basic background in "XHTML 1.0 Transitional". http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/

Validating your CSS and XHTML is highly recommended.
The sites above have links to W3C CSS and XHTML validators.

(and you might want to learn about the differences between "Transitional" and "Strict" XHTML revisions. And if interested in managing your mark-up for Mobile phones and other small devices you may want to check out the newer "Basic" XHTML revision http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-xhtml-basic-20060607/ ).

Also a discussion focusing on standard CSS and XHTML Accessibility features which apply (or do not apply) to Zen Cart and/or different browsers might be warranted.

Woody

The Things I Struggle(d) With, Or, What I Did on My Spring Break:

1) TAXES! Being Canadian, we have more levels of tax than Cher has silicone scars. I know that there is a good tutorial on it - I believe it's by Dr. Byte??? But in your newbie guide, put a link directly to it, including the few comments that followed his post on clarifying zones.

2) GLOSSARY. Oh I am SO in agreement with this. Everyone here has been really helpful to me, but each and everytime I have had to ask for clarification. Because you guys live and breath this stuff so often, you have your own terminology and it seems self-evident to you. But think of it as its own separate language. Think of the high school French you took and then plunk yourself down in Paris. You'll understand things if, and only if, they speak slow enough. And even then there'll be words you need clarification on.

3) Inserting your own logo. There are about 32 1/2 different versions of the php file where you can change your logo. To someone like me, they look almost identical. Be specific as to why you change THAT particular file and not the others. I've been given the instructions and have followed to the letter (at least I thought I did) and I still can't get it right. :blush: Explain where you locate the file that you are linking to. Be specific. What files cannot be used and what size is a no-no.

4) REPRECUSSIONS. I don't know about you, but I learn the hard way: by screwing things up then I know oh, so THAT's why you don't do that. If you explain how the walls come tumbling down if you do THIS, it'll help some people retain things.

5) The difference between changing text files in Admin and changing them in FTP. I don't even know if there is a practical difference.

6) HTML - maybe find a good site that has a basic HTML tutorial and link to it. That'll help the colour changes and some other basic formatting questions. It'll also help a little on understanding why changing some things in the CSS file is or is not a good thing.

7) IMAGES. Oh man, if it wasn't for all my blonde hair, you'd see all the grey this has given me. I only found AFTER I had asked the question and someone linked to it a place that explains the MED and LRG image procedure and even then, because I had no idea of the thumbnail size vs. full file size memory issue, that was only so much help. In this area I was a complete and total blank slate and had to get a program to make the appropriate thumbnails (which were given their own thumbnail prefix by that program) and then MED and LRG file sizes from it. Then I had to figure out on my own that the MED and LRG files also need the thumbnail prefix to work. It took me about 4 days to figure that one and it was very frustrating.

This is a great idea and I wish you luck. :thumbsup:

Woody

You make a lot of good points in your post above. Just two things that I would disagree with. Firstly I wouldn't get people too whipped up aboyt the possibilities inherent in CSS3. CSS2 has been around since 1998 and still isn't fully supported by the main browsers. So ######## though some of the CSS3 features will be, it will most likely be some time before all the main the browsers support them (correctly), let alone reaching a position where Zen Cart users' site visitors have all upgraded to as yet non-existant upgraded browsers.

Also, I have tended to find that initially CSS is best taken on board by way of seeing it in practice in meaningful examples. The benefits of studying the theoretical underpinnings tend be come later once some intuitive understanding has already been established.

As to your lost site, There are a number of that offer tables showing which browsers support which CSS functions. This is a good example.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kuroi

Just two things that I would disagree with.

Firstly I wouldn't get people too whipped up aboyt the possibilities inherent in CSS3.

---

Let's see... I stated...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Woodymon

CSS v.3 is coming. But right now only basic CSS 2.1 proficiency is required for those who want to customize current version of Zen Cart. However be aware that new features exist in CSS3 which could also prove helpful to many Zen Cart customizers.

---

I don't see any "whipping up" of CSS3 by me (Note the word "could"). I think we are mostly in agreement ;-) But there are components of CSS3 which are relevant now, and some will become quite relevant sooner, and some later. Folks should at least be aware of CSS3. Especially when they ask why cannot CSS2.1 do this, or do that? (some ideas were removed from CSS2 during the transtion to CSS2.1. But are doable with CSS3). Anyway just because a browser is not fully complaint with CSS3 does not mean it does not support of some useful CSS3 features. But I defer to you as you are a CSS pro and I am not ;-)

It all comes down to the question: "which browsers do you want to support?" BEFORE injecting ANY code into the Zen Cart core, or for that matter, BEFORE making any customizations to Zen cart layout, you must ask this question.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kuroi

Also, I have tended to find that initially CSS is best taken on board by way of seeing it in practice in meaningful examples. The benefits of studying the theoretical underpinnings tend be come later once some intuitive understanding has already been established.

---

Not sure if we are in disagreement here but different strokes for different folks. When i first began with CSS I was completely overwhelmed. To get a special effect to my layouts veryone would tell me to insert this or that code into my HTML and into stylesheet. But I would never understand the what and why. So after brief struggles I found what put me ahead was a quick study of base CSS terminology (at W3C). Then I was able to combine practice with theory (as they reinforce/complement each other....kind of like taking chemistry or physics class, you have lab time along with general theory lecture). I feel the W3C site does a good job of illustrating effect of stylesheet changes and has been very helpful; to me. And other previous posters haver posted links to quality CSS sites. And your Future Zen template is also very helpful in this regard, which I posted previously in this thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kuroi

As to your lost site, There are a number of that offer tables showing which browsers support which CSS functions. This is a good example.

---

Thanks much for the link. Very helpful! We need a site that combines XHMTL 1.0/CSS2.1 browser support comparisons.

Woody

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Woodymon

When I first started here I already had a backgorund in PHP, MYSQL CSS2, PHP, Apache, FTP, SSL, etc. But I still had to read, re-read and re-read the Zen Cart FAQ and the various readme docs to absorb many of the new ideas (e.g. overrides). I do feel for others without the prior experience I had.

---

Yeah. See... if it was a challenge for you with all that background, now I don't feel bad for feeling like a non-IQ-having-individual.

I have gone through the w3C CSS tutorial and the HTML one (heh they're bookmarked). To be honest with you: NOTHING in their tutorial looks like the things in my stylesheets :laugh: I really am getting the feeling that I'm muddying up my soup a bit much. Or perhaps my head.... who knows. Not much is getting clearer.

I am going to download my stylesheets and try to make my own blank template kinda thing to look at. I won't know what goes where, but maybe I'll post it and then one of the zen gods can fill in the blanks for me. :wink2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ladysaat

I am going to download my stylesheets and try to make my own blank template kinda thing to look at. I won't know what goes where, but maybe I'll post it and then one of the zen gods can fill in the blanks for me.

---

Get Kuroi's "Future Zen" template (From Downloads - Templates area) and download/install Web Developer Extension for Firefox.

Woody

I think that most of the things I'd want to know have been covered. For me things were a bit more confusing since I downloaded the purple template and seem to then have an extra whole set of files to sort through when looking for something. I was lucky that Bruce helped me with a few things when I got stuck. I still don't know how to use half of the admin stuff but luckily my shop is pretty dang simple and I don't need to.

I find the most confusing part is simply where to find exactly what php or css file you need to mess with. I do think every newbie needs to know to back up everything and keep their own set of files when and if anything in changed in a file. As long as you have backup files then you just tinker until it works!

Sorry for not having more to contribute Bruce! I think you know exactly where I got stuck....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Woodymon

Get Kuroi's "Future Zen" template (From Downloads - Templates area) and download/install Web Developer Extension for Firefox.

Woody

---

You know funny you mention that. I just got that today!! From a post on the forum even. So I will get his template right now.


Okay and having just retyped this reply twice, I have NO idea what that web dev tool thing is for in firefox. I just clicked on stuff and managed to have to do this typing three times. :thumbsup: to me.

I am seeing something that maybe will show me where something resides in CSS as pertaining to the document I have open...

~resumes playing with new browser toy~

Being REAL new this is what I would suggest:

1.) most common/reccomended customizations: which files and their locations

I struggled with this longer than anything. The other thing I have noticed, is some of the things on Wiki, and some answers are a little techy. Im not new to site building, just new to zen cart. However, MOST will give up at the template customization. I gave up reading the how tos, and just jumped in and did it based on previous work with storebuilders and html. I also use www.3schools.com for alot of good advice. I dont always get their stuff either , but there are lots of how tos already posted there.

2.) I dont understand most of the attributes, so I just tweak them to see what they do or dont do.

3.) most of what I would change in css is font colors, background colors, px/font size. I dont know that you could explain without giving a whole course on css how to do a style sheet from scratch. Id stick with the basics.

Shipping modules, payment modules, most of that is pretty self explanatory. Right now im up to working on products and categories, but I will let you know if I run into anything else really difficult.

Karen

I am relatively new to Zen Cart - to online stores for that matter. If working with ZC effectively is a 10, I would rate myself a 3.


It is rather EASY to let SermonZone know the area I am struglling with:

It seems like ZC breaks down into two parts:

1. How it looks
2. How it works

How it looks

The 'skeleton' as some have put it is far and away the most difficult thing to get my hands around. So many files with redundant names. I think I make a change - and NO. After another try something changes, but I can't figure out what I just did. Things just don't seem consistent. A Primer on the 'skeleton' and the override system would be nice. The override system seems to me to be an excellent way of handling updates, but without a better understanding of it, it might as well not be there.

I am the kind of guy who needs to know why something works. A better understanding of how ZC works would be good.

I like the "How Do I...?" topics - but how many would that be?! You'd spend the rest of your days answeing questions. Giving me a fish is nice, but I think I'd rather know how to catch one.

Glossary=Good

Useful tools and software=Good

How It Works

To be fair, so far most of the admin part seems fairly straightforward. There is a bit of a problem with the interface (I mean, how hard is it to use "on" and "off" instead of "true" and "false"?) and vocabulary (who knew attributes were options?). I haven't run into any major problems with this side of ZC, by in large to the other side giving me such fits.

Hope this helps you, SermonZone - I'm looking forward to your efforts!

Update on the 'Docs for New Zenners' project.

I am still out of state and only have access to dial-up a few minutes per day. (How did we live before broadband?)

Thanks to all that have contributed to this thread. We are making progress in providing a first draft of tutorials/articles for the information that is most likely to help a new Zen Cart user.

In this thread and around the forum there is a fairly common request to "make it simple" and/or "provide a step-by-step procedure." While we are attempting to do this there are several things new users should be reminded of:

1. There is a learning curve for Zen Cart. It takes hard work and patience. No tutorial will eliminate the need to learn how to operate a new piece of very powerful software.

2. Some topics are just hard and will never be simple. For example, review the discussions of CSS by Kuroi and Woody here and elsewhere. Some of the requests for help with CSS are either not possible or not helpful. I can only suggest you read, study, try, re-read.

3. The Devs and others have posted most, if not all, of this information previously. When you think you have searched completely and not found anything, search again on different terms. Search the FAQ and Wiki. You are unlikely to be the first person to ever ask your question.

The goal of this particular project is to assist new users with the most commonly misunderstood tasks. Hoperfully, this will build the Zen community and relieve the Devs of some time-consuming support. These things will help all of us. When Devs have more time, they work on cart improvements. As the cart improves, our businesses benefit. As our business grows we can contribute more money and time to the community. Which allows the Devs to spend more time improving the cart. And so on, and so on, and so on.

If your question is not addressed specifically, please do not despair (or flame). Others are working on important areas of Zen documentation and you still have the forums.

"Where is a new user most likely to find this material?" - We are considering a combination of places and want to fit in with the Devs leadership on this point. Feel free to add you input on the best location for the tutorials.

I would put it in a sticky/page/sep. forum called Zen Guide, or Start Here, or New User Guides


Something completely blatantly out there. I'm not saying it to be insulting or a smarta** I just really think if it isn't completely and totally obvious... like ZenCart Instructions... then you will spend all your time answering "Where is it?".....


I would put a link to it on the zencart download, a link to it in stickied threads at the top of the most viewed forums, and have Merlin put it in his signature :laugh:

This has become a rather long thread, and I haven't read all the posts so I don't know if it's been mentioned...either way, it doesn't matter, it should be mentioned again!

There should be some sort of detailed tutorial as to having a store live or for testing. This should describe how the owner of the store can act like a customer, but no real customers can see anything, I'm fairly certain it's designed to be able to do this, right? Anywho, I don't know how to do that. Also it should be doable with specific categories. For example, I have a "gift certificates" category that's not currently active, I'm pretty sure there is a way for me to test it without letting other people see it, but I don't know how. There should be a detailed description on putting a store "down for construction" and stuff like that.

Also, our store has a LOT of big items, greater than 50lbs. There should be a way to specify specific shipping conditions (at the simplest, make it say "this item requires and invoice for shipping) or something like that. I guess that's probably something to do with the attributes, but as has been mentioned many times already, the attribute controller needs a lot of explination.

There "should" be great tutorials, detailed and comprehensize handbooks, hundreds of plug and play templates, etc. But this is free software. Either 1. you are a developer and are focused on helping people with questions in the forum and working on the next release, or 2. you are a small business owner, too busy or strapped for time to sit down and write a manual that would outdated by the time you've finished it because this cart evolves too fast.

Its difficult, I know, we all know. But its the price you pay for freeware. You either pay in time and learn, or you pay in cash and have someone else do it for you.

Hi all, I read through the thread and thought I'd just put a suggestion. haha. I'm a new user to Zen Cart and the one big question I had when I was trying to set up (I'm still in the process of tweaking and everything) was : What do I need to set to get the shop up and working? haha. I initially had problems just getting the checkout process to work smoothly but Vger and Ajeh were really helpful. CSS wise, I had minimal problems because I am quite familiar with CSS (and even if you messed up here...there's no big harm done...the site just looks a little weird...haha). Just a small input. ^^

A question I've answered several times in recent days is "How do I make x show (or not show) only on y page?" It's really pretty simple - see here.

It's not something *every* new Zenner needs, but seems pretty common, and widespread knowledge will help more Zen Carts be custom-tailored.

Hey, great idea here!

I just wanted to chime in on the CSS problems people are having. Well, first of all I don't think the ZC developers should be obligated to teach anyone CSS. However, if you're struggling to figure out which id/class is assigned to which element, there's one simple way to do this.

1. Open the page you want to customize in your browser. Right click and select View Source.

2. Scroll down until you find the element(s) you want to customize. You'll be able to see the id/class name next to the tag.

3. Open your stylesheet in your favorite text editor (PSPad!) and use Control-F to find the id/class you want to customize. Then start tweaking away.

Also, the Web Developer extension for Firefox can simplify this process tremendously and I highly recommend it.

As for me, my newbie experience with ZC has primarily been a struggle to make sense of the override system and the file organization. There are so many file includes that are spread out all over the system for each individual page or even section that it can be like wandering through a maze. It would be a real godsend to have this mapped out somehow. This seems to be a popular request so I imagine you guys will come up with something:)

I would also like to request a reference for constant definitions - i.e. where to locate the file in which a certain constant is defined. I know english.php has most of them, but the ones that aren't in there are much harder to track down. The Developer Tools is helpful, but it would still be nice to have a concise reference for this info.

Thanks! I appreciate your time and effort, this is an ambitious undertaking!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ruby

Well, first of all I don't think the ZC developers should be obligated to teach anyone CSS.

---

Agreed. After my previous comments below I revisited the W3C CSS doc site and some of the stuff remains difficult for me to comprehend. However I put together a short list of basic CSS keyterms that may be helpful to ZC newbies, which Sermonzone may want to include (or not). At least some links to the W3C CSS site could be included.

e.g. how to change color or put an image in your backgrounds (body. sideboxes, etc):
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/colors.ht...und-properties

Then at the same time point to the appropriate rule/declaration in the default Zen Cart stylesheet to make such adjustment.

e.g. .leftBoxHeading, .rightBoxHeading, .centerBoxHeading, .leftBoxContainer, .rightBoxContainer, .sideBoxContent

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ruby

However, if you're struggling to figure out which id/class is assigned to which element, there's one simple way to do this...

Also, the Web Developer extension for Firefox can simplify this process tremendously and I highly recommend it.

---

YES! Brief How-To's to do this in various popular tools would be good. For IE6 users there is the IE6 Developer toolbar released by M$ in March (for W2K/XP/2K3 but not Win9x). Can anyone suggest similar tools available for Safari and Opera users?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ruby

There are so many file includes... It would be a real godsend to have this mapped out somehow. This seems to be a popular request so I imagine you guys will come up with something:)

---

There was a third party doc available which mapped everything out for a previous 1.2x version. However shen ZC was upgraded the document immediately became dated and not very useful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ruby

I would also like to request a reference for constant definitions - i.e. where to locate the file in which a certain constant is defined. I know english.php has most of them, but the ones that aren't in there are much harder to track down. The Developer Tools is helpful, but it would still be nice to have a concise reference for this info.

---

A listing of the core files and base template files containing all the core defines would be a good thing. Suggestions on how to organize such a document/reference? And same issue as above, whenever ZC is upgraded the reference would become immediately dated.

Not at all dissing your recommends. Just a reminder that maintaining documentation is the battle. So whenever generating any documentation that point needs to remain forefront. Yep my middle name is "broken record". ;)

Woody

It's the templating/override system I have most problems with as a new user.

I've had to edit templates for forums, directories, blogs, and a few other peices of software besides, but I've *never* encoutered such a complicated templating system as there is with Zen Cart.

A simplified tutorial explaining which files mean what, and which folders need to be address - even for simple changes - would be very helpful. At present, simple modification of the header and footer seems to require learning brain surgery on the fly.

I agree.. as a first time user ive spent most of my time trying to figure out which file change what!

Sermonzone -
One thing I didn't even think of (though it is probably arleady listed) is perhaps a reiteration or a checklist for installing third party modifications.
Of course, this may not be considered a Newbie item...
All the standard verbage about backing up, using overrides, and doing file comparisons should be highlighted.

And at the very end, I recommend suggesting some tests to make sure the cart isn't broken.

I had a brief moment of horror because I saved the testing of the purchasing portion of the cart to nearly the very end...and it didn't work. Luckily it turned out none of my modifications broke it (well, none of the 3rd party mods did it anyhow) - but I was getting ready to debug it in a most tiresome manner - I had installed a fresh build of zen 1.3.0.2 and was getting ready to re-install each of the modules I had installed and then doing a test of the checkout process...

live and learn :) and if you need someone to proofread, my offer is still open :D

To All -

Please forgive me for not regularly posting a "Thank You" for your input. Several of us are working on this project and as always we have hit a snag or two.

I am hopeful that we are nearing a time when we can start releasing rough drafts and asking for your help with clarity format, grammar and comprehensiveness.

Thanks to all that have posted. If you have offered assistance I will be contacint you by PM within a week.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sermonzone

I am hopeful that we are nearing a time when we can start releasing rough drafts and asking for your help with clarity of format, grammar and comprehension.

Thanks to all that have posted. If you have offered assistance, I will be contacting you by PM within a week.

---

Could not resist being a :smartass: but would like to help.

john

LOL! :lol: and Blush :blush:

I make my living with words. You know, the spoken kind. this qwerty thing must be an invention of the Devil. Somebody install a spell-check in the ZC forum, PLEASE. And a grammar checker, and Strunk & White, and ..........

You are officially on the 'poke Bruce with a sharp stick as your correct his terrible typing' team.

I must confess.....

I use As-U-Type.
:wink2:

Alright. I had to put in my .02. I am new to ZC but not to HTML. However, when I taught myself HTML, it was before CSS even came out. Yes, I'm that old. LOL. Anyway....I wanted to list my 2 biggest things. I know they have been said but, again, you said to repeat as necessary.

1. I think a 'blank' CSS sheet or at least a doc that explains the ZC specific tags or those that most CSS / HTML'ers wouldn't instinctively know, would be nice. It would give at least a 'starting place' for most.

2. The override system is a great thing. I think it needs to be explained a bit better. Also, explain how to use it in relation to adding modules that override each other..and how to get them both to work.

That being said, I'm not adverse to reading and researching and such. But as a ZC newb, it gets frustrating when you post questions and they get ignored on the board without even a 'hmm don't know how to do that' bit or even suggestions on where to look. A basic 'start here' FAQ etc would be welcome - one such as you mention, that is user friendly.

I'm not bagging on ZC either. Honestly, I've found that the community help on this vs osC and other eCommerce stuff has been great. Also, IMHO the CSS issue actually HELPS this be more 'newb' friendly. I like it so far!

Thanks!

-- Anna

I think this would be great and if I knew more about Zencart, I probably would have already done this (since I write documentation for a living or at least partially). My biggest problem is knowing where to change things. I can muddle my way through the code and figure it out most of the time. It's just a matter of knowing where to look. What would be nice is screen shots of each page in the template and captions is to where that particular field/column etc can be changed.

I have spent the past several days trying to figure out where to change the stupid center header bar that says home and still can't find it.

This would absolutely be wonderful if someone put together a guide of each field and what it does, etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bwhitmire

I think this would be great and if I knew more about Zencart, I probably would have already done this (since I write documentation for a living or at least partially). My biggest problem is knowing where to change things. I can muddle my way through the code and figure it out most of the time. It's just a matter of knowing where to look. What would be nice is screen shots of each page in the template and captions is to where that particular field/column etc can be changed.

I have spent the past several days trying to figure out where to change the stupid center header bar that says home and still can't find it.

This would absolutely be wonderful if someone put together a guide of each field and what it does, etc.

---

How do I remove the Home in the middle column next to the Categories box?

This is called the breadcrumb (think Hansel and Gretel) showing where you are and how to get back to previous locations. You can either turn it off completely or you can turn it off only on the main page.

You can turn it off in admin -> configuration -> layout settings -> Define Breadcrumb Status and set to 0.

To turn it off on the main page in includes -> templates -> YOUR_TEMPLATE -> templates -> common -> tpl_main_page.php find the following lines of code

<!-- bof breadcrumb -->
<?php if (DEFINE_BREADCRUMB_STATUS == '1') { ?>
<div id="navBreadCrumb"><?php echo $breadcrumb->trail(BREAD_CRUMBS_SEPARATOR); ?></div>
<?php } ?>
<!-- eof breadcrumb -->

and change to:

<!-- bof breadcrumb -->
<?php if (DEFINE_BREADCRUMB_STATUS == '1' && ($current_page!='index' || (int)$cPath>0 )) { ?> <div id="navBreadCrumb"><?php echo $breadcrumb->trail(BREAD_CRUMBS_SEPARATOR); ?></div>
<?php } ?>
<!-- eof breadcrumb -->

Hello Everyone,

As a newbie, I believe the help needs to also start from the very beginning. The installation information is very vague especially if a person wishes to set it up using their computer as the local host. The generic statements of set up works only for those who can start at the middle. New people need a specific step by step, first this and then next with exact wording....stop assuming the reader knows what you mean....very frustrating.

Thanks

It is sad when you read other posts and they speak about getting answers from the zen forum like ...read the faq and other comments that imply the questioner is an idiot or lazy....the comments here about a clear explanation being more reading and one is expected to put out effort...yaddy yadda....smells of the same sense of condescension....If things were clear newbies would not be so confused or frustrated.
More reading is not the problem it is the desperate need for reading that is clear, sequential and relevant that is needed. As things stand and it has been stated over and over.....hours and days and weeks of searching can be one heck of a hayride made worse if your not sure what needle your looking for or the information is like reading a foreign language.

Please consider that pleas for help and useful responses =a bigger zen community and positive word-of-mouth advertisement and disgruntled chastised folks leave zen and go use the competition.

We are not lazy and we do not mind reading, obviously we are reading to be here and we are willing to work and put effort by trying to learn how to work with zen....do not imply insult to those asking help.

Thanks

Let's see how we can make this a one size fits all kind of world?

1. Everyone must use white background and the standard logo! That would eliminate the need for questions about changing the background.
2. Everyone must host on the same type server with the same version of MySQL and PHP! Boy would that simplify matters!
3. It's too difficult to set up SSL so it will no longer be supported.
4. No more language files. Everyone WILL switch to Latin.

Think abut just those four variables and what it would take to create a document that would cover all the REAL choices you can make with ZenCart.

What I'm saying is that few of us have the bandwidth needed to download what an all-encompassing "how to" document would look like. Not picking on Clyde as he has helped me several times but not everyone has heard of Hansel and Gretel.

As you read further through the posts in this forum, you will see how patient and helpful the devs are in many cases where I would find it difficult to withhold a :lamo: .
It's quite obvious that many folks don't even know there is a docs folder! However, anyone with a question that even acts like they have taken the time to research the problem will generally get an answer faster than anywhere I have experienced before.
Sometimes the answer is a gentle prod to read some of the basic information. As Ajeh is want to say, "You might accidentally learn something." That's a program that has worked quite well for me these last two years.

digart,

We are working on some 'step-by-step guides' that should help you with issues.

The reason people say 'look in the FAQ' is because the question that just asked has been answered dozens, if not hundreds of times, before. Put yourself in the place of the person answering your question when a new user asks a question that you have answered yourself twice a week for a year. As dbltoe said, it can get frustrating.

There is a philosophy in the forum that tries to balance two things: give the answer the user needs now versus teach the user how to find their own answers. Not everyone handles it the same way. Overall, I feel there is a very good balance.

While the software bears no financial cost to download, there is a substantial cost in learning. Either pay with your time and effort or pay with your credit card. Your choice.

I could only find your two posts here. Do you have a question that has not been answered? If so, find the best topic and post a clear simple question. Someone will help.

Good luck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Merlinpa1969

If you need help with the paypal let me know,
I need to update the current paypal tutorial anyway might as well put it all in one place

---

Hi. Do you have the paypal tutorial available? how could I take a look a this?

thanks

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by carlosferrandis

Hi. Do you have the paypal tutorial available? how could I take a look a this?

---

Here's a place to start:
http://www.zen-cart.com/wiki/index.p...ment_Module.3F

I am not a professional webbie - just a an artist trying to set up a site. Months ago when I first downloaded ZenCart, there was a link to step by step instructions for downloading and installing it. I am unable to find this and although I think the Wikie is great, its in greek as far as I am concerned.

Is there anyway to get a true beginner install doc? I am just lost at this point because there I have no manual or anything to resource.

THank you very much for any and all help - this is a fantastic product and very generous venture.

Regard,
Kate

In your download /docs/ are step by step installation instructions.

I am a professional webbie, and have written customers' shops in PHP Shop, Joomla, ClickcartPro and X-cart. I am using Zen Cart for this latest implementation for a client who is currently on Yahoo.

I'm in the admin, and have put my main page in. I figured I'd use the EZ page system to move over his non-catalog HTML pages, hey, copy, paste and turn 'em on, right?

Well, I just spent an hour digging around in the backend, and just can't see why those pages aren't showing up. I've created the page, enabled it for left column, turned on the EZ pages module for the left column.

Zen looks like a powerful program, but I never imagined it would be harder to wrangle than X-cart.

Not banging on Zen Cart, but dude, it should *not* be this difficult to turn on the EZ pages.....

::sigh:: so, its off to the rest of the forum to search for a solution to something I mistakenly imagined would be intuitive.....

It only took me reading about a half-dozen threads to find all the items that needed to be set to show the EZ-pages. But, IMO, that is 5 too many. The EZ-pages are powerful, but since the admin has no mouse-over help or immediate explanation as to what the various fields mean, the procedure isn't terribly clear, especially since you have to access 3 different menu items in order to get them to display.

So - my addition to the thread:

- A step-by-step on creating, placing and managing EZ-pages

I'm off to finish moving my pages, and to fine-tune my downloaded Yahoo catalog so I can upload it into my Zen DB.....

Sometimes us "professionals" tend to leave the installation and tutorials in the shrink wrap.:D
Had you added the demo items to your installation, you would have had many examples of how to "manage" ZenCart including all you ever wanted to know about EZ-Pages.
Might want to check the links in your sig.

meadwrench-

So it sounds like you were able to figure out how to enable the ez-pages? So would you mind posting your step-by-step proedures?

Woody

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by meadwench

It only took me reading about a half-dozen threads to find all the items that needed to be set to show the EZ-pages. But, IMO, that is 5 too many. The EZ-pages are powerful, but since the admin has no mouse-over help or immediate explanation as to what the various fields mean, the procedure isn't terribly clear, especially since you have to access 3 different menu items in order to get them to display.

So - my addition to the thread:

- A step-by-step on creating, placing and managing EZ-pages

I'm off to finish moving my pages, and to fine-tune my downloaded Yahoo catalog so I can upload it into my Zen DB.....

---

Quote:

---

So would you mind posting your step-by-step proedures?

---

I'm not meadwrench but I have the info: EZ Pages

One thing I would like to see is how to make it so my customers don't have to download immediately when they purchase something. I have tried to search for this, but I don't know the terms used. Virtual Product downloads? Anyway, sometimes they miss the links and can't come back and download the ebooks. I know this is probably fairly simple to correct, but I can't find the information anywhere.

Thanks,
Marci

Marci,
Check out the attributes controller. At the bottom is where you determine the filename of the download, the max downloads, and the expiration.
Makes it simple for someone to select PDF, DOC, ZIP, etc and you control it.

Thanks, DB. I've done all of that, but even if my customers do not download their ebooks, they cannot access the downloads later. I end up having to email them the ebooks because, quite bluntly, I have no clue on how to go about changing this. I have it set for the default of 1 download in 7 days. Is it possible to have it so if they don't download immediately, they can come back and download within those seven days? And does Zen Cart also make what the customer has ordered available to the customer if they wish to look? I know I can see it, but I'm not sure if the customer can.

I have a major upgrade to do that requires fixing the template as well. (Still running 1.2.6) What has stopped me from upgrading is the new template and the fear of losing all of my data. I am an html coder and know css, so I know I can do this. I've created Joomla templates by using examples and seeing what needs to be done. What I'm not too sure about is what will happen to my db, how to download it in case the install doesn't happen properly, and will I be creating a new template with a new upgrade?

Yes, I know these are questions beyond this. You don't need to answer the last if you don't want to.

Thanks,
Marci

Freya,

I've found that most folks mess up the first download so I set the number to 3. It's hard to be concerned about their getting too many copies when they can copy the download as many times as they wish.

As you've most likely found in your html and css experiences, we learn through our mistakes. However, we can not go forward if we give in to the fear of making them. In the case of upgrading, you just need to know what is the most important step. The one that, if you fail to do it, you go :eek:

In the case of an upgrade, copy and protect the original database like the Secret Service guards the President. Create a NEW blank database and a NEW test directory. Install the full fileset of ZenCart to the new directory and let it populate the database and create the site through the ZC_Install. If you used a prefix for your old database, be sure to use it again in the new load. Once installed, check to see that you can get to the admin and the catalog.

Next, delete the tables in the new database and drop your copy of the old database in the new. You will have to force ZenCart back into the install mode by entering something like www.mycarthome.com/zc_install. If you have already renamed that directory, just use the its new name. The first install screen will appear - click "Continue". On the second screen, click on the "I have read and agree..." radio button, then the "Continue" button.

This next screen (System Inspection) is where most go wrong and get their "learning experience." There's all these things we can do to mess things up BEFORE we get to the "Database Upgrade" button at the bottom of the page. But, that's the one we want. Click on it and the system will check for you which levels of the cart need to be upgraded. Yours should be the last four in the list as you will be needing upgrades to 1.2.7, 1.3.0, 1.3.0.1, and 1.3.0.2.

In spite of the title of the next box and the warning paragraph, people see the "New Table Prefix" and enter what they selected during install. Can you say, "Corrupted Database?" This is ONLY USED to change a prefix IF one exists that you don't want.

Next mistake most make is with the Admin Username and Password. This is NOT the database user and password. This IS the Username and Password for the Admin portion of ZenCart that you added during installation.

Once across those hurdles, just click the "Update Database Now" button ONE TIME. A lot of folks are used to double-clicking and do it without thinking. "All I did was select the Update Database Now button, and I got a 1062 error." Most likely they double-clicked from habit.

By now you see the ants crawling across the page. And, soon, the install congratulates you on a working site without having created global thermonuclear war.:D

Work out the cart and admin to make sure your products are there and you can get to the items you need.

While you still have the old cart running and a copy of the old database, leave them safely where you put them and dive into the override system with both feet. Read the FAQ's, DOC's and WIKI and you'll do fine with your background. Bring the new cart up to your standards.

What I do next is copy the new to the old (of course I've made a copy of the old somewhere just seconds before). All that's left is to change the admin/includes/configure.php and includes/configure.php to reflect the new directory structure. You don't have to change the database as it's the one you made to work with the new version.

I know this has been windy. However, I felt it needed to be "all in one spot" for someone already familiar with html and css.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by freya

One thing I would like to see is how to make it so my customers don't have to download immediately when they purchase something. I have tried to search for this, but I don't know the terms used. Virtual Product downloads? Anyway, sometimes they miss the links and can't come back and download the ebooks. I know this is probably fairly simple to correct, but I can't find the information anywhere.

---

Besides the download link displaying on the "order success" page, the customer receives the link in the order confirmation email.

Or click "My Account" in the shop menu bar (must be logged in) and then click View Order button. If item ordered is a downloadable product (soft good) a download link will be displayed. That is, it will display up to the expiration time, which you control in admin (default is seven days and five download attempts, I think).

I'm sure someone will correct me if wrong but, doesn't downloads.php check to make sure the order is not pending or some other status other than delivered?

Once funds are collected the status of the download is changed and I think the file is not available till then.

Way too late to do full research so you get a 50/50 guarantee. Fifty feet or fifty seconds.:D

Thanks, DB and Woodyman! I will check again.

The upgrade also has to do with time. I am on limited time with a toddler to watch. If I am lucky, I have two hours during her nap and maybe a couple at night, if I can outlast her. But I am determined to work on this today provided she naps like she should. (crossing fingers)

Marci

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dbltoe

I'm sure someone will correct me if wrong but, doesn't downloads.php check to make sure the order is not pending or some other status other than delivered?Once funds are collected the status of the download is changed and I think the file is not available till then.

---

You are correct. This is how Zen Cart works by defualt.

My comments were with the understanding that payment was already approved (or item is a free download).

How do you change the text on the homepage: Congratulations! You have successfully installed your Zen Cart™ E-Commerce Solution.


As well as Sales Message Goes Here
Cheers :dontgetit

How do I change the "sales message goes here"/"TagLine Here" text?

In order to add your own "sales text", changes will have to be made in includes -> languages -> English (or YOUR LANGUAGE) -> header.php.
Open the file in a text editor and find the following line of code:

define('HEADER_SALES_TEXT', 'TagLine Here');

Make your changes to the text highlighted in red. Save the file and copy it to the includes -> languages -> English (or YOUR LANGUAGE) -> YOUR_TEMPLATE folder and upload it to your server.

--------------

How do I change Congratulations! You have successfully installed your Zen Cart&trade; E-Commerce Solution?

look in includes -> languages -> english -> index.php and find this:

// This section deals with the "home" page at the top level with no options/products selected
/*Replace this text with the headline you would like for your shop. For example: 'Welcome to My SHOP!'*/
define('HEADING_TITLE', 'Congratulations! You have successfully installed your Zen Cart&trade; E-Commerce Solution.');
} elseif ($category_depth == 'nested') {
// This section deals with displaying a subcategory
/*Replace this line with the headline you would like for your shop. For example: 'Welcome to My SHOP!'*/
define('HEADING_TITLE', 'Congratulations! You have successfully installed your Zen Cart&trade; E-Commerce Solution.');
}

change the portions in red to whatever you want.

how to you locate languages -> English (or YOUR LANGUAGE) -> header.php.

sorry im not the best at zencart

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by clydejones

How do I change the "sales message goes here"/"TagLine Here" text?

In order to add your own "sales text", changes will have to be made in includes -> languages -> English (or YOUR LANGUAGE) -> header.php.
Open the file in a text editor and find the following line of code:

define('HEADER_SALES_TEXT', 'TagLine Here');

Make your changes to the text highlighted in red. Save the file and copy it to the includes -> languages -> English (or YOUR LANGUAGE) -> YOUR_TEMPLATE folder and upload it to your server.

--------------

How do I change Congratulations! You have successfully installed your Zen Cart&trade; E-Commerce Solution?

look in includes -> languages -> english -> index.php and find this:

// This section deals with the "home" page at the top level with no options/products selected
/*Replace this text with the headline you would like for your shop. For example: 'Welcome to My SHOP!'*/
define('HEADING_TITLE', 'Congratulations! You have successfully installed your Zen Cart&trade; E-Commerce Solution.');
} elseif ($category_depth == 'nested') {
// This section deals with displaying a subcategory
/*Replace this line with the headline you would like for your shop. For example: 'Welcome to My SHOP!'*/
define('HEADING_TITLE', 'Congratulations! You have successfully installed your Zen Cart&trade; E-Commerce Solution.');
}

change the portions in red to whatever you want.

---

How exactly do i do that?? Daniel

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by personalisedpresent

How exactly do i do that?? Daniel

---

I'm having a hard time finding include too

the files are in your website ... you uploaded them once by FTP already:

/includes/languages/........ etc.

hello...hope the work is going well


please please please let people know the developers tool kit exists and how to use it...I didnt know about it and wish I had....to be honest I didnt consider myself a developer at the start of zencart so stayed away from it...but it shoud really be called "users tool kit"

for those reading this thread that didnt know - the developers tool kit tells you where any phrase or piece of code is amongst all your zc files - its a really useful search tool and its in admin under

tools>developers tool kit

please use this if you need to find anything you see written on your zc website such as "sales message goes here" - it will tell you which file to go to to make your changes

in the input box at the bottom "look up all files" type in the exact phrase that you need to find and change....

next in the dropdown box beside that select "catalog" (once you get used to zc you will know if you need to search just the admin, catalog or both - most of the time it will be just the catalog)

click search

all files with the phrase you need will be displayed including the occurance of your phrase

please learn to use this tool as you will find that alot of the time it will save you hours of forum searching

the other main thing I still have trouble with and really cant get my head around after 3 zc sites and thats zones and zone definitions I just dont get how they interact with the taxes stuff and then whether it should be based on shipping, billing or store........any enlightenment on this area would be much appreciated

thanks bruce.. feel free to add me to your pm list of helpers