ozpost shipping module

[ttfan]

What about the PayPal modules? They are also Free, but you need to subscribe to the PayPal service in order to make use of them.

What about the Banking modules? Also Free, but you do need a suitable bank account to make use of them - All(?) banks have charges.

The ozpost shipping module is no different... it is Free, but you now need to subscribe to the service in order to use it.

Don't think that's quite the same... I don't think the people that wrote these module charge anything... that's what 'free' refers to. Sure the paypal / banks charge something, but they always do and that's not really related to zen-cart or your module. So suddenly starting to charge for the use of a module doesn't quite fit in with the zen-cart 'free for all' philosophy IMO, and I hope the other developers don't catch onto the same idea, since if they all started charging for their time and module, the whole package could become quite expensive.

For anyone in Australia that wants to use or continue to use Zen-cart, your module is pretty much essential as there is no alternative. No-one would have bothered to write an alternative since your module is obviously very good and has always been free, so why would they bother?

So you have the AU users of Zencart at your mercy... changing over to other cart-software is a major project for anyone, so they're pretty forced to start paying for your service...

One of the main attractions to Zencart for me was the fact that it was OS and free. So I must admit I'm surprised to find that a module that is so integral and essential to the software (for AU users) is in fact not free.

[Mike_Dean]

What about the Banking modules? Also Free, but you do need a suitable bank account to make use of them - All(?) banks have charges.

The ozpost shipping module is no different... it is Free, but you now need to subscribe to the service in order to use it.

Cheers
Rod

I'm not against paying fees, or a user pays scheme, but I think the argument that PayPal et all charge a fee, and comparing Ozpost to those is a bit left field.

What Ozpost does is offer Australia Post rates real time, but I can log into Australia Posts web site and get quotes real time too, and they don't charge me a fee for accessing their web site, same with FastTrack and TNT (though I need a TNT account, which does not cost to set up)

So I can see peoples disdain for potentially being charged a fee for a service, which in fact is actually free to all and sundry, and as you have stated multiple times, we are not going to be paying for the module, we are going to be paying for the privilege of accessing the server and getting real time quotes)

I think if the fees were charged as a service fee, eg paying for assistance, people might view that as a more acceptable way of requiring a user pays. Eg a $50 one off fee entitles the user of the Mod to receive email support from you, thus you are then remunerated for your time. So if you are comfortable going it your own, then so be it, else you pay for support, just like some people pay others already for maintaining their stores and solving issues.


As some have said their usage of OzPost is not that great so it seems a one flat fee (unless negotiated between Rod and the shop owner) regardless of how much "server time" of OzPost you actually utilize is not that fair and equitable.

[reuben]

Totally agree with ttfan and mike_dean.

For a great module, I would pay a voluntary donation, or a reasonable once-off flat fee, or exercise the option to subscribe to a paid support program. However deliberately breaking people's existing solutions if they don't pay is unconscionable.

Asking for remuneration for current and future work is reasonable and fair, but taking back old code that was freely given and now relied upon by clients is a power play that is not in the spirit of open source development.

A reasonable approach is to offer existing users the option to continue running their legacy code with no upgrades or support, which is a popular strategy in the commercial software space. It would reduce your support workload to only paying clients while honouring the hard work and deliverables you have so successfully and generously contributed to the zencart project in the past.

I do hope you reconsider.

Good luck to you
Reuben

[robbie269]

Hi Rod

I am getting the following session errors coming into my cache. Only when I use the shipping estimator.

[26-Jul-2010 03:12:07] PHP Warning: session_start() [<a href='function.session-start'>function.session-start</a>]: Node no longer exists in /home/ani48156/public_html/store/includes/functions/sessions.php on line 110


[26-Jul-2010 03:12:16] PHP Warning: session_start() [<a href='function.session-start'>function.session-start</a>]: Node no longer exists in /home/ani48156/public_html/store/includes/functions/sessions.php on line 110
[26-Jul-2010 03:12:16] PHP Warning: session_write_close() [<a href='function.session-write-close'>function.session-write-close</a>]: Node no longer exists in /home/ani48156/public_html/store/includes/functions/functions_general.php on line 46

[26-Jul-2010 03:12:16] PHP Warning: session_start() [<a href='function.session-start'>function.session-start</a>]: Node no longer exists in /home/ani48156/public_html/store/includes/functions/sessions.php on line 110
[26-Jul-2010 03:12:16] PHP Warning: session_write_close() [<a href='function.session-write-close'>function.session-write-close</a>]: Node no longer exists in /home/ani48156/public_html/store/includes/application_bottom.php on line 16

I am using the latest versions of Zencart and Ozpost. PHP version is 5.2.11. My template is based on Cherry_zen.

Any ideas?

Robyn
thehorsestall.com.au

[Bryson]

Totally agree with ttfan and mike_dean.

For a great module, I would pay a voluntary donation, or a reasonable once-off flat ... deliberately breaking people's existing solutions if they don't pay is unconscionable.

I do hope you reconsider.

Couldn't agree more. At this stage, my fledgling stores (2) can't afford the renewable fees. It will be a great shame to lose access to this brilliant contribution.

Regards,
Bryson.

[RodG]

I am using the latest versions of Zencart and Ozpost. PHP version is 5.2.11. My template is based on Cherry_zen.

Any ideas?

Robyn
thehorsestall.com.au

The latest version of ozpost is 2.0.8 Is that what you are using?
When did this issue first appear?

Cheers
Rod

[robbie269]

Hi Ron

Yes I am using 2.0.8. It started when I updated to version 2.0.7. However the problem is I changed the template to Cherry_zen about the same time??

Rob

[RodG]

I'm not against paying fees, or a user pays scheme, but I think the argument that PayPal et all charge a fee, and comparing Ozpost to those is a bit left field.

I am offering a service. I am not forcing anyone to use it.

What Ozpost does is offer Australia Post rates real time, but I can log into Australia Posts web site and get quotes real time too,

Yes you can.

and they don't charge me a fee for accessing their web site, same with FastTrack and TNT (though I need a TNT account, which does not cost to set up)

AP, FastWay and TNT make their $$$ out of offering a delivery service. Thier quotation servers are a 'freeby extra' and those costs are absorbed by the delivery charges.

ozpost doesn't offer a delivery service, so it cannot recouperate any costs in the same manner.

So I can see peoples disdain for potentially being charged a fee for a service, which in fact is actually free to all and sundry,

The information provided may very well come from free sources, and no one is stopping you, or anyone else from accessing those servers, but do those free severs provide the same information in the same way that is actually *useful* to you? If so, then use them, with my blessing.

Have you ever heard of "IceTV"? No? Look them up. The basis of thier operations is to provide TV program listings that are freely available from all of the different networks... like the ozpost module it also offers a little *more* than this, but ultimately they are charging for freely available information, and are quite successful at it. If you take a look around you the internet is actually 'littered' with sites that charge for information that is freely available.

and as you have stated multiple times, we are not going to be paying for the module, we are going to be paying for the privilege of accessing the server and getting real time quotes)

Hmm, that is real time quotes, from multiple carriers, with the results being nicely ordered and categorised according to weight, size and destination.

Australia posts' own servers don't provide this. Their server expects *you* to decide whether you are posting a letter or a parcel, it expects *you* to decide whether to quote for local or overseas, it requires *you* to determine whether a satchel is suitable or not, and if so, what sized satchel. In short, the servers are designed for totally different purposes.

The Australia Post server has been designed to provide a *single* quote based on a specific method.
.
The ozpost server has been designed specifically for use with ecommerce stores and will produce a *range* quotes and methods that are valid for any given shopping cart.

If the implication is that the ozpost server is nothing more than a 'relay agent' to the Australia Post server and that I'm trying to 'cash in' on their data then you clearly have little or no concept about the code behind the server.

I think if the fees were charged as a service fee, eg paying for assistance,

Using your arguement, why would people want to pay for assistance when they get it here for free?

people might view that as a more acceptable way of requiring a user pays.

Some might, others will do nothing but critisize and complain that "it isn't in the spirit of open source" anyway.

Eg a $50 one off fee entitles the user of the Mod to receive email support from you, thus you are then remunerated for your time.

They get free email support from me already - Have done for the last 3 years. Less than a handful of people have ever even done as much as buy me a coffeee.

.... and then there are the insults and name calling that I am often subjected to because I can't/don't always give the answers that people want.

So if you are comfortable going it your own, then so be it, else you pay for support, just like some people pay others already for maintaining their stores and solving issues.

The fee I charge is access to the server, a server that I need to maintain and solve any issues with. How is this any different than charging to maintain someone elses server (store)?

Are you trying to say that I don't also have a right to charge people to maintain the ozpost servers that they are using?

That increase in postage rates a few weeks ago, did that data 'magically' appear in the database? No, silly me had to manually input the data (That's ok, I had nothing else planned for that weekend anyway).

As some have said their usage of OzPost is not that great so

So, are you proposing a 'pay per quote' would be a better system? That way, busy stores will be paying a lot, the not so busy stores paying very little?
This *was* considered, but the small discussion group unaniously agreed that a monthly fee would be more practical.

it seems a one flat fee (unless negotiated between Rod and the shop owner) regardless of how much "server time" of OzPost you actually utilize is not that fair and equitable.

Some people use the ICEtv guide a LOT less than I would. I still have to pay the same fee.

Mike, what you (and others) need to realise is that, like it or not, it takes me a lot of time and effort to maintain the code and user support of this module. I have managed to do this for the last three years because I've not been obligated to "work"... Instead, I have been a fulltime student (which is about a half time workload). Needless to say, 4 years study with no work has eaten most of any savings I had, so, sometime in the next few months I'm going to have to:

A) Get a fulltime job - Which means NO MORE SUPPORT. NO MORE DEVELOPMENT and NO MORE MAINTENANCE. Ozpost, will literally 'die'. - End of discussion.

B) Get a part time job, and prop up the difference with ozpost subscriptions. To do this, and make it worthwhile (and acceptable to centerlink, who would prefer I worked fulltime, or lose all benefits) I need to produce the equivlilent of 15hrs paid work per week. To achieve this I need a 'conversion rate' of around 10% (I'm actually counting on only 2%, but I'm HOPING for more ), and if I can't achieve this target I'll be back to option "A" again. However, in this instance, I should still be able to find time to continue to support the *few* that have supported me.

In summary, the next few months are going to be critical in regards to whether there will even be an 'ozpost' shipping module at all by the end of the year. "Early supporters" will get continued support (or full a refund), but the project itself will be dropped as a lost cause ... I'll move on to other projects instead.

Cheers
Rod

[robbie269]

Hi Rod again

I have found out what caused the session errors in the cache. I had deleted the: ." Dims: ".$_SESSION['slength']."x".$_SESSION['swidth']."x".$_SESSION['sheight']." Boxes: ".$_SESSION['boxes']out of the tpl_modules_shipping_estimator.php. I did not want the dimensions and boxes to be displayed when it estimates the Postage. I have put it back how it was now but still want to get rid of them somehow. Is there a neater way of removing the dimensions and boxes?

Rob

[RodG]

So you have the AU users of Zencart at your mercy...

I wish.

changing over to other cart-software is a major project for anyone, so they're pretty forced to start paying for your service...

Changing over cart software isn't the solution. Other carts do not and will not have the same functionally that 'ozpost' provides in regards to shipping options.

One of the main attractions to Zencart for me was the fact that it was OS and free.

So what has changed? Zencart is still OS and free. (I don't follow what you are getting at).

So I must admit I'm surprised to find that a module that is so integral and essential to the software (for AU users) is in fact not free.

The ozpost module is just another addon. It is no more integral or essential for zencart AU users than any other module.

I don't have anyone at my 'mercy' - In fact I consider it to be the exact opposite - It is the users of the ozpost module that has ME at THEIR mercy.

I'd like to continue to support and improve on the module, but I have other needs and responsibilties that will be competing for my time and attention. If I don't/can't get enough support to make this viable project, then the project will need to be dropped .. So, I am at YOUR mercy (collectively).

You can choose whether you wish to use the module or not. I have no choice in regards to how future development will go, it is entirely in your hands.

Rod