Any way to start from scratch?

Please bear with me, I'm not exactly sure how to describe this...

I've managed to change the stylesheet enough to give this site, www.drhandsets.com a new look. Not sure I'll keep it, but it was good practice.

Something I've noticed though is that all the Zen stores and templates have a really boxy look to them and I'd like to have more flexibility in positioning and floats, etc.

The content files and the divs are kind of all over the place, so I am not sure it would even be possible to create a whole new layout from scratch. I'm thinking it's not, but I'd like someone to confirm that for me so I stop thinking about it.
Thanks!

Sorry, but it is completely possible to create a new template...

Sure a new template is easy enough. I guess I didn't explain properly.

What I'd like to be able to do is create an entirely new layout from scratch. Not starting from any default_template stylesheet. That is what I am not sure is possible because of the vastness of the code. I want to position those divs whereever I want them, add divs without adding modules like blank_sidebox, etc.

I can't see for sure that anyone has done that.

Yes, lots of people have done it. You just have to have a good grasp of html, css and php.

I guess it's the php I'm lacking. Add another to my list of things to learn....

Do you have a mockup of the design you'd like to use?

Hi Kim,

No, not really. I didn't even know it was possible until an hour or so ago. It's just something I'd like to try.

Do you ask because you have a suggestion on how to get started? I am feeling overwhelmed and thinking that it might be better to start with Wordpress since it uses php, css and html, but it not quite as involved, but I am open to suggestions and thanks to all for your responses.

Zen Cart is very flexible, but it does take a bit to get used to the override system. If you design a mockup, we can give you a better idea of how to proceed.

If you are planning a cart and thinking Wordpress, you are REALLY in for a learning experience.

Seriously, why would you leave a cart, go to a program that is buggy, and then try to make a cart plugin work on the new program?

You said that you would need to learn PHP and you want to complicate it with starting out by learning in a "let's see if these two will work together" mode?

Get a copy of Firefox and the firebug add-on. Along with the Developer's Tool Kit in the admin, it will help you find and change any css controlled item.

What Kim was alluding to is that, if you had a layout of your dream site, you could find the id/class of the div and use the above mentioned tools to move them like you want them.

You can look at some that might be close at (sorry, site offline)

Hang in there, it's not really as bad as you think it is.:D

Hi dbltoe,

I don't expect WP and Zen Cart to work together in any way. I just thought it might be easier to figure out how to start from scratch in WP and then take what I learn (regarding php) and go back to Zen Cart.

I love the web developer extension and I have used it to make my own templates (http://www.drhandsets.com/). Maybe I should select "Display Div order" and print it out.

What I'd love to be able to do is create divs and a stylesheet, then drop the Zen Cart content in just where I want it.

Yeah, I've looked at all those templates and have even used some in the past, but what I'd really like is something like this: http://www.csszengarden.com/?cssfile=/213/213.css&page=0 . I know this design has nothing to do with Zen Cart (and it's a little over the top), but that's the kind of design I'd like to be able to create for Zen Cart.

I am sure you are right. I just need a design and I need to slog through it until I get it the way I want it. Every time I come up with something specific that I want, I realize that the stylesheet can do it, but the thing is so massive and it's easier to start from scratch rather than using someone else's work and having to figure it out.

Officially done whining :blush:

And do not be freaked out by the PHP.

The php is just a lot of code on the server that produces a html page to send to the clients browser. For instance the PHP just collects all the products in a category and produces the html to display those products on the page. The pages that are sent to the browser are html.

So, if you understand html and css then you can do an awful lot to create a unique and beautiful template/look/style.

As dbltoe says a good starting point is to have a tool to discover the ids and classes of the existing divs (this tool is firefox/firebug/web developer toolbar) and then edit the css file to apply styles to the existing divs by either writing new rules or altering the existing style rules in the stylesheet.css file of your new template.

An amazing variety of looks can be created that way. Or anyway, it always amazes me how creative people can get within the framework of Zen Cart.

Thanks to everybody for your advice. I'll keep working on it.

twas speaking of the WP cart plugin.

Firebug will allow you to see the css for the site(s) you like. Much better than developer.

alisammeredith:

What I'd love to be able to do is create divs and a stylesheet, then drop the Zen Cart content in just where I want it.
This is actually and fully the wrong way to approach this as Zen Cart is not intended to be a module you just drop onto a page - - -
or allows the use of it in pieces that you select.

It is designed to be the basis of any site that uses it....
One then lays their design over it/under it

Yes, I understand. I'll just plug away at the stylesheet.