[Done v1.3.9e] 1.3.9a Double Orders

DrB, we both know you're going to be waiting in perpetuity for the "impossible" list. Because you also know that just about no one uses a mod-free, uncustomized (and ugly LOL!) version of Zen cart. There's no way I'm stripping my store for this. Not when you could easily see it in action for yourself with minimal effort. Moreover, not when it's a completely unrealistic environment.

I was amused by, "I'd help if I could." I found threads dating back to 2007 regarding the same problems I've had with both IPN and Express. If you haven't fixed it by now, it's highly unlikely you ever will. "You" meaning collectively. My problems are with Zen, not with you personally, and I don't mean to make it sound that way.

I appreciate your reply, but, as far as I'm concerned, the Zen masters' philosophy on this seems pretty clear. Please rest assured I won't be wasting any more of your time (or mine) on the subject. I'll just remain hopeful somehow it will be magically fixed (for real) by the time 2.0 comes out. Maybe 2.0 will be so amazing we won't need any mods. ;)

ToniScraparoni:

DrB, we both know you're going to be waiting in perpetuity for the "impossible" list. Because you also know that just about no one uses a mod-free, uncustomized (and ugly LOL!) version of Zen cart. There's no way I'm stripping my store for this.
I'm not asking you to strip your store.
I'm asking you to help me build up a repli ca of your store so that I can use it for testing without breaking anything on your live site. (Or to build such a repli ca yourself, and tell me all the steps you take to get there) ... all up to the point where suddenly your payment problems start occurring.

Starting from a clean slate is the correct way to diagnose problems. If the problem can't be replicated by rebuilding the site starting with admin config settings, then the problem will be in the PHP files.
Then, the comparison of all the addons/customizations will be useful to diagnose the exact cause.

I, for one, would like to quash this issue permanently. I'm tired of hearing it come up and not finding anyone willing to provide the details I need to fix it.

Okay, I swore to myself I wasn't going to post again about this. LOL!

Mightn't you be a little unreasonable in that request? At least as opposed to coming over to look for yourself? There is no way I can possibly remember every tweak I've ever made during the last year. They're innumerable.

Innumerable meets immovable, apparently. So I'm more than willing to give you a .zip of my current Zen files along with zillions of screen shots of my admin menus and a list of all the mods I have installed. A PITA to compile rather than simply letting you see for yourself, but if you insist it be this way, you've got it. I'm always on board for the greater good. I'll even give you my debug log with the lone error I've found, another mod vs. Zen problem that's never been resolved. Maybe I'll even get a two-fer. ;)

Just tell me where to deliver it and I'll get busy!

ToniScraparoni:

Okay, I swore to myself I wasn't going to post again about this. LOL!

And I swore I wouldn't get involved. I guess we just can't help ourselves eh?

ToniScraparoni:

Mightn't you be a little unreasonable in that request? At least as opposed to coming over to look for yourself? There is no way I can possibly remember every tweak I've ever made during the last year. They're innumerable.

On the same token, don't you think that you are being unreasonable in your request to have someone perform a full audit on your site with no apparent offer of compensation for the time and effort involved?

ToniScraparoni:

So I'm more than willing to give you a .zip of my current Zen files along with zillions of screen shots of my admin menus and a list of all the mods I have installed. A PITA to compile rather than simply letting you see for yourself, but if you insist it be this way, you've got it.

I think even this is an unreasonable request - It could still take considerable time just to check and compare files, not to mention the fact that the problem may still never be duplicated.

It really isn't, as you imply that no one wants to help you, or that anyone is denying the existence of the problem, but as Dr.Byte has pointed out, until/unless the problem can be reliably (or even semi-reliably) replicated there isn't a whole lot that anyone can do about it.

What needs to be kept in mind that there are 1000's of zencart users that have never experienced the problem, and only a small handful that have.

Someone, somewhere needs to find a common link between those with the problem and those without.

It is clear that Dr.Byte is as frustrated with the problem as those that are actually experiencing it - Quite probably moreso, as he says:
"I, for one, would like to quash this issue permanently. I'm tired of hearing it come up and not finding anyone willing to provide the details I need to fix it".

I really do sympathise with this sentiment.

Furthermore, this problem is being put forth as a zencart bug - With no further information or clues, it could theoretically be a bug with the PayPal systems, or possibly even a network 'glitch' causing a retransmission of data packets, or silly users wondering what would happen if they order the same item twice (not that any would admit that).

The bottom line though is the lack of any information required to replicate the problem leaves so many variables open that a person wouldn't even know where to start looking.

This is where those that are experiencing the problem need to do THEIR bit, and this involves helping to find a way to replicate the problem, looking for any 'patterns' to the problem (are the customers all in the same country? Are they buying the same product(s) - ANY clue is better than no clue at all.

Also if YOU can't replicate the problem in your own store, how could you expect someone else to be able to replicate it using a different store?

Computer/Program bugs are never "random events" - Assuming it IS a bug, then there must be a way to replicate it. A "random event" may cause generally stable code to behave in unexpected ways (some of which can be mitigated) but generally speaking, like Microsoft's "Blue Screen of Death" such events can't be predicted, fix or cured.

So, now ask yourself - Is this a random event, or is it a reproducible bug. If it is reproducible then those that are in a position to reproduce it are the ONLY ones that can provide the information required to solve it.

It really is that simple.

The insinuation that the developers don't really care or are unwilling to help is grossly unfounded.

So, as Dr.Byte says - "I'd help if I could. But, I must wait on you" (or others in a similar position).

G'night <back to lurk mode>

Rod

Toni, when you see these double orders, how close are they in time? Within seconds?

Dr Byte, since this is an issue that only affects a small % of carts, does it make sense to just add a check to the ipn_main_handler to look for an order from the same customer with the same order total made within (say) 5 seconds?

Just brainstorming about how this could be resolved with the least amount of effort.

RodG:

And I swore I wouldn't get involved. I guess we just can't help ourselves eh?

Hi, Rod! Indeed. ;)

On the same token, don't you think that you are being unreasonable in your request to have someone perform a full audit on your site with no apparent offer of compensation for the time and effort involved?

Not in the least. I'm not asking a) for something that hasn't been asked before that b) isn't for my personal whim and fancy. This isn't a "custom commission." Apparently TPTB don't think it's unreasonable either, since arrangements have been made off-forum to get this in motion. And I am duly appreciative, regardless of what the undertaking may be characterized as. :)

It really isn't, as you imply that no one wants to help you, or that anyone is denying the existence of the problem, but as Dr.Byte has pointed out, until/unless the problem can be reliably (or even semi-reliably) replicated there isn't a whole lot that anyone can do about it.

What needs to be kept in mind that there are 1000's of zencart users that have never experienced the problem, and only a small handful that have.

While I would agree it's a fair assumption that less users of Zen have this problem than more, I don't think it's as minimal as you might suggest. It's possible people search, find there is no answer to find, and leave it at that. I, on the other hand, have never been shy. ;)

Furthermore, this problem is being put forth as a zencart bug - With no further information or clues, it could theoretically be a bug with the PayPal systems, or possibly even a network 'glitch' causing a retransmission of data packets, or silly users wondering what would happen if they order the same item twice (not that any would admit that).

If you had read the complete thread, you would have noticed that, in my second post, I apologized for posting this in the incorrect place. I had been in this thread reading the last of the previous bug I did find and thought I'd switched forums before posting. I had assumed the mods would move the thread back to the upgrade forum.

Also if YOU can't replicate the problem in your own store, how could you expect someone else to be able to replicate it using a different store?

I completely agree analyzing patterns of customer/product/etc. when it occurs is of course helpful. Easy enough. But, unfortunately, I don't have enough knowledge in this programming area to "force" it to happen. When it happens five times in two days, it seems to "replicate" just fine on its own. ;)

Computer/Program bugs are never "random events" - Assuming it IS a bug, then there must be a way to replicate it. A "random event" may cause generally stable code to behave in unexpected ways (some of which can be mitigated) but generally speaking, like Microsoft's "Blue Screen of Death" such events can't be predicted, fix or cured.

So, now ask yourself - Is this a random event, or is it a reproducible bug. If it is reproducible then those that are in a position to reproduce it are the ONLY ones that can provide the information required to solve it. It really is that simple.

Again, I'm not sure I'm qualified to make this distinction, but I'm taking door #2, reproducable. I think it happens too often to be considered random or akin to the "Blue Screen of Death." Which either stops happening after a reboot, or the computer goes into the shop. ;)

The insinuation that the developers don't really care or are unwilling to help is grossly unfounded. So, as Dr.Byte says - "I'd help if I could. But, I must wait on you" (or others in a similar position).

I have never meant to make any of this about personal feelings. Again, said as much above. I meant caring in the sense of the project as a whole, that it isn't a priority for the developers if it's still a problem after three years. A problem that, until now, wasn't really even acknowledged as a problem on the forum, yet was included n the list of fixes in the upgrade. A fix which clearly didn't fix it - at least for everyone. As I said above, I think I'm taking one for a larger team than we might realize. ;)

As for being willing to provide the information, asked and answered. And being done. I'm hopeful a resolution will be found, but I will be grateful for the effort no matter what. Just being acknowledged is enough sometimes. Well, at least until the next batch of double orders comes through! LOL!

Thanks for your post, Rod. I respect your point of view and appreciate your contribution.

swguy:

Toni, when you see these double orders, how close are they in time? Within seconds?

Dr Byte, since this is an issue that only affects a small % of carts, does it make sense to just add a check to the ipn_main_handler to look for an order from the same customer with the same order total made within (say) 5 seconds?

Just brainstorming about how this could be resolved with the least amount of effort.

Hi, Scott!

Thanks for trying to help. They're either at the exact same time, or within one second.

Dr Byte,
I have been having the same issue with my site. Zen Cart and the Zen Cart team have enabled me to begin a new career in updating shopping carts. I can't thank everyone involved enough. Therefore, I would be more than happy to spend as much effort and time neccesary to help resolve this issue. If you would like me to recreate my site let me know.
Jon

I'm going to put together a patch as soon as I can - it won't be a true solution but at least it will mitigate the impact.

Toni,
What version of PHP and MySQL are you running?

I am new to Zen Cart, but my company just took on a client with a high volume ZC site and one of their issues is this duplicate order problem.

FWIW I'm just posting to say a) there are others out here with the problem b) I'll be watching this thread and taking any clues others have found and c) I'll share anything we find in the process...

Tony
Veteran Programmer / Zen Novice

tonyniemann,
Perhaps you can add important information like the answers to the questions asked in the "Posting Tips" section when you click the "Reply" button below.

Hi, DrB!

PHP = 5.2.4

MySQL = 5.1.30

Thank you and bless you! LOL! Your efforts are greatly appreciated. :)

It was nice of Joe to offer, as well. Thanks again, guys!

Hi, all!

I know there's another thread about this in the bug forum which marks it as resolved, but I wanted to update this thread to say how grateful I am to DrByte, who really went out of his way to solve this issue. I haven't had a double order in a month, since the last file change, now included in the 1.3.9d release.

Thank you again, DrB! You're awesome and it was a pleasure to "work" with you! :smile:

Thanks Toni. Your patience and helpful sharing of logs and pertinent info made the process much easier to solve.
Glad we can strike another one off the list!

Updates will be included in v1.3.9e.

NOTE: v1.3.9e has now been released. See the News & Announcements section of the forum for details.