Develop store offline?

Hello... I'm not sure if this is the right place to post, but I'm somewhat confused about a few things I've been reading on the forum with regard to the best way to initially develop a Zen Cart store. I'm very new to Zen Cart having recently got involved with it in order to help out some friends who need a store built. I did the first part wrong apparently which was to use Fantastico to install Zen Cart on their hosting. Now I'm reading the best way to build the store is locally and upload it, although I'm not sure my experience with it is enough to be able to do this correctly...
so my questions are...

why is it not advisable to use Fantastico?
and also...why does the general advice seem to be to develop the store offline?

Thanks!

The problem with using auto-install processes from host packages like Fantastico is that they are typically out of date. When starting fresh, you should always use the latest version available from the Zen cart website. Just saves headaches down the road.

Loading and running a Zen cart store shares some minimum experience requirements with running any other type of site. So before I talk out of turn, can you tell us a little about your experience level with building and hosting websites? That way I know exactly where you're at on the leading curve.

A quick Google search of "site:https://www.zen-cart.com Fantastico Problems" will show you 182 reported problems. No telling how many went unreported. Fantastico is often manipulated by the host and seldom installs a truly correct/complete Zen Cart Version.

As to local development... Unless you possess a direct 20Mbp pipe to the host, you can see and do everything locally, instantly, and without bots getting bad information that will turn off a customer.

If you are able to turn off prying eyes and don't mind the delays and possible FTP glitches, go for it online.

Personally I just set up a mirror dev site on a different subdomain, e.g. https://www.example.com and dev.example.com.

Making sure it's not listed in Google is usually enough, but there are several ways you can even filter out visitors based on IP address, thereby preventing anyone BUT you from viewing that dev site.

BlindSide:

The problem with using auto-install processes from host packages like Fantastico is that they are typically out of date. When starting fresh, you should always use the latest version available from the Zen cart website. Just saves headaches down the road.

Loading and running a Zen cart store shares some minimum experience requirements with running any other type of site. So before I talk out of turn, can you tell us a little about your experience level with building and hosting websites? That way I know exactly where you're at on the leading curve.

Hello BlindSide...Thanks for your reply.
I'm a designer, graphics, websites etc. but I'm happiest with Wordpress which of course is a lot different to Zen Cart, although customization follows the same principles I'm finding. I've customized the site to some degree graphically and everything is ok thus far, I was just wondering if there was a specific reason why local development was encouraged...If it's just to keep visitors out then it would make more sense to have a more effective maintenance mode. I wasn't too keen on the inbuilt maintenance mode, things are still visible. What I would really like is a splash page that takes the site out of view entirely unless you're logged in as the admin in which case you can still see the site for development.... does such a thing exist?

The version of Zen Cart Fantastico installed is this one? v1.3.9d

dbltoe:

A quick Google search of "site:https://www.zen-cart.com Fantastico Problems" will show you 182 reported problems. No telling how many went unreported. Fantastico is often manipulated by the host and seldom installs a truly correct/complete Zen Cart Version.

As to local development... Unless you possess a direct 20Mbp pipe to the host, you can see and do everything locally, instantly, and without bots getting bad information that will turn off a customer.

If you are able to turn off prying eyes and don't mind the delays and possible FTP glitches, go for it online.

Hmm...I'm just not understanding why there isn't a plugin like the WP- Maintenance Wordpress Plugin....it makes life so much easier! It turns off the site for everyone who isn't logged in as an admin.

I have looked everywhere for something like this for Zen Cart. Anyways... so the main reason for people developing offline is really then to keep google from indexing unfinished info and stop customers browsing around when they shouldn't? No technical reasons in particular?

Thanks so much for your reply!
Lisa

Load an index.html file in the root, and that will generally be displayed instead of the index.php from Zen Cart.
If it is really important that nobody else be able to see any part of the site layout, developing locally would take care of that 100%.
1.3.9d is the latest version.

Technical reasons are largely simplicity of editing - no FTP required, you can edit stylesheets directly and see file changes instantaneously on refresh. When making related changes in several files, this can save considerable time going back & forth in FTP views in local and remote.

Maybe the obvious question of ... have you tried the Configuration ... Website Maintenance ... and set the site Down for Maintenance and then either turned off the header, footer, left and right column would be a simple, built in solution?

Just add the IP Addresses that you want to see the site ...

NOTE: testing things such as PayPal Standard cannot work when Down for Maintenance is on as it cannot "see" the site either ... :smile:

gjh42:

Load an index.html file in the root, and that will generally be displayed instead of the index.php from Zen Cart.
If it is really important that nobody else be able to see any part of the site layout, developing locally would take care of that 100%.
1.3.9d is the latest version.

Technical reasons are largely simplicity of editing - no FTP required, you can edit stylesheets directly and see file changes instantaneously on refresh. When making related changes in several files, this can save considerable time going back & forth in FTP views in local and remote.

Hi gjh... I have read so many of your posts these past couple of weeks as I have been learning the ropes. So first of all I'd like to thank you for all the knowledgeable advice you have given to others that's helped me so much.

Your idea for the index.html file sounds great, only I wouldn't be able to see the site either right? and I need to be able to develop the theme. I've done most of it by now but there are a few things still and the site needs to be populated with products. Luckily I read about the overides when I first started so at least I have a custom theme that won't get overwritten now when we upgrade Zen Cart...well hopefully anyways :)

I found a good way of editing the files directly on the server to build the theme. Hosts that use Cpanel have file manager that has a code editor within it. It has saved me acres of time.

Soon as you're here I do have a couple of questions still regarding some customization issues...is this a good place to ask?
Lisa

Ajeh:

Maybe the obvious question of ... have you tried the Configuration ... Website Maintenance ... and set the site Down for Maintenance and then either turned off the header, footer, left and right column would be a simple, built in solution?

Just add the IP Addresses that you want to see the site ...

NOTE: testing things such as PayPal Standard cannot work when Down for Maintenance is on as it cannot "see" the site either ... :smile:

Hi Ajeh
I did try website maintenance...I suppose I was expecting something akin to the Wordpress plugin I'm used to. At this stage in the day I'm almost done customizing so we will be setting up the payment stuff next...In that case I probably will just leave things as they are. I just thought perhaps there were technical reasons for local customization...I'm happy to hear that isn't the case :)

It is not recommended to use the cPanel file manager to edit PHP files, as it can sometimes corrupt them. You may get away fine most of the time, but it's not worth the risk.
If you have a question that is reasonably related to a particular forum topic, it would be best to ask there. I will be checking new posts for a while yet tonight.

I guess I don't get it ... what is the difference between the look of that WordPress down for maintenance and Zen Cart Down for Maintenance ...

Turn off the Header, footer, left and right column on the settings if you don't want the customer to see those ...

Change the text in the middle and image if you want ...

Or is there something special that WP Down for Maintenance is doing there that I am not seeing? :unsure:

gjh42:

It is not recommended to use the cPanel file manager to edit PHP files, as it can sometimes corrupt them. You may get away fine most of the time, but it's not worth the risk.
If you have a question that is reasonably related to a particular forum topic, it would be best to ask there. I will be checking new posts for a while yet tonight.

hmm yes that would be a problem, specially with the CSS soon as I changed it so much... thanks for the advice

Ajeh:

I guess I don't get it ... what is the difference between the look of that WordPress down for maintenance and Zen Cart Down for Maintenance ...

Turn off the Header, footer, left and right column on the settings if you don't want the customer to see those ...

Change the text in the middle and image if you want ...

Or is there something special that WP Down for Maintenance is doing there that I am not seeing? :unsure:

I hadn't realized you could specify IP addresses that Zen Cart would allow to view the site...so I guess it really is the same...

Order the e-book. It provides step by step instructions on how to setup a store on your local machine. It will save you hours and help you product a better store. Its only 30$ and its a tax writeoff

http://www.cucumbermedia.com/store/index.php?main_page=document_product_info&cPath=1&products_id=4

LisaK:

Hello BlindSide...Thanks for your reply.
I'm a designer, graphics, websites etc. but I'm happiest with Wordpress which of course is a lot different to Zen Cart, although customization follows the same principles I'm finding. I've customized the site to some degree graphically and everything is ok thus far, I was just wondering if there was a specific reason why local development was encouraged...
Alright, so this is not a question of how, but more why. One of the reasons you've gotten this advice is because Zen cart sites are totally different from Wordpress. If people visit a WP site under construction, they may get an error or a busted page. If people visit a Zen Cart site under construction, they may order stuff that isn't for sale yet, or be billed incorrectly. The stakes are a bit higher.

Linda's recommendation is the best way to develop in place while avoiding the issues I described above. You can also do the dev/live setup I described. Keep in mind that a separate development area is pretty much a necessity once you have a bustling live shop.

jasonhoward64:

Order the e-book. It provides step by step instructions on how to setup a store on your local machine. It will save you hours and help you product a better store. Its only 30$ and its a tax writeoff

http://www.cucumbermedia.com/store/index.php?main_page=document_product_info&cPath=1&products_id=4

Thanks Jason...This sounds like a good investment...one I wish I made 2 weeks ago lol

BlindSide:

Alright, so this is not a question of how, but more why. One of the reasons you've gotten this advice is because Zen cart sites are totally different from Wordpress. If people visit a WP site under construction, they may get an error or a busted page. If people visit a Zen Cart site under construction, they may order stuff that isn't for sale yet, or be billed incorrectly. The stakes are a bit higher.

Linda's recommendation is the best way to develop in place while avoiding the issues I described above. You can also do the dev/live setup I described. Keep in mind that a separate development area is pretty much a necessity once you have a bustling live shop.

Yes I see :) Although that's changing somewhat with the WP-ecommerce plugin, I suppose if someone is building a Wordpress shop they would now have the same issues. It's not unusual for people to build WP sites offline though and I've done it myself, but never felt the same overwhelming feeling I did when looking at all the Zen Cart folders that are involved in overiding the default theme....with Wordpress you just stick everything in one theme directory pretty much.

I couldn't see the post by Linda...sorry, new around here and not familiar with everyone's real names yet :(

That would be me ... :smile:

Just put the site on Down for Maintenance and if you want to not show anything turn them off and you will have a screen for the customer and for you, or anyone else with an IP address in the list, the shop ...

This is a handy feature for developing as well as for upgrading etc. ... and done with just a flip of a switch ...

Ajeh:

That would be me ... :smile:

Just put the site on Down for Maintenance and if you want to not show anything turn them off and you will have a screen for the customer and for you, or anyone else with an IP address in the list, the shop ...

This is a handy feature for developing as well as for upgrading etc. ... and done with just a flip of a switch ...

ah there you are!
Yes I think this is probably the best bet for me, thanks Linda :)