Paypal Express Checkout - Shipping Address Issue

ZenCart 1.3.9h
PayPal website payments pro
Paypal Express Checkout:
Express Checkout: Require Confirmed Address
No

Express Checkout: Select Cheapest Shipping Automatically
No

Express Checkout: Skip Payment Page
No

Express Checkout: Automatic Account Creation
Yes

NEED A SOLUTION! Shipping address issue... as described in the posts above.
Desired outcome: a customer makes a purchase with paypal express and wants to ship to a different address than their PaPal billing address. The store owner receives the purchase information with the billing AND shipping address.

Not sure, but the times when a separate billing an shipping address does NOT come through appears to be when it is a new customer (one who does not already have an account registerd inthe zencart store).

In any case - we need a solution. The current shipping address problem is frustrating for customers and store owners.

Maybe the only solution is to remove paypal Express.

vwebworld:

Not sure, but the times when a separate billing an shipping address does NOT come through appears to be when it is a new customer (one who does not already have an account registerd inthe zencart store).
Then set your store's Express Checkout Shortcut Button setting to Off. That will require all customers to create an account on your store before they can get into checkout, thus eliminating the symptom you just stated.

Thanks... when I do that (set button to off) this message still appears when the customer clicks on "go to checkout":
"Have a PayPal account? Want to pay quickly with a credit card? Use the PayPal button below to use the Express Checkout option."

But... there is no paypal button.

~Roland

vwebworld:

Thanks... when I do that (set button to off) this message still appears when the customer clicks on "go to checkout":
"Have a PayPal account? Want to pay quickly with a credit card? Use the PayPal button below to use the Express Checkout option."

But... there is no paypal button.
Ya, that was tidied up in v1.5.0

You can edit your templates and language files to remove that text until you upgrade.

Dr Byte -

Have there been any developments with regard to the PayPal Delivery/Shipping address issue?

We are on the point of abandoning ZenCart as customers cannot have a billing address that's different to their delivery address.

Over the years of talking to PayPalI have gained the impression that if anything is going to change, it has to be ZenCart and not PayPal.

We need a modification to the module. Or we have to go.

Version here is 1.3.9f and would have upped to 1.5.1 but unless the PayPal glitched is fixed, better to use a different cart.

Belangers:

there is no need for the shipping address to be sent to PayPal. They need the billing address to compare to the credit card to see if the user is the authentic user of the card.. Period! How the hell would they be able to accept a credit card if the billing address was trying to be matched to the shipping address. It would always be declined. It doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to figure that out. ... I think it would be too mind boggling to be able to add something to just allow only the billing address to go to Paypal. PayPal simply doesn't need the shipping address.
Okay, Mr Belanger, if "PayPal simply doesn't need the shipping address", then please explain exactly WHY PayPal THEMSELVES allow ONLY for a SHIPPING address to be submitted, and NEVER a BILLING address. You can read it all in their API specs.

Thus far even PayPal hasn't been able to answer that question for me.

But if you can, then I'm all ears.

To those of you who have chimed in saying you want it to work differently, please answer the following questions ...

While Mr Belanger is flamboyantly adamant that zen cart is solely at fault, his perspective is very specific and doesn't take into consideration some of PayPal's technical limitations.

So, putting his rants aside, perhaps YOU can explain EXACTLY what YOU want to have happen for YOUR customers. And be very specific about what you want to have happen to BOTH shipping AND billing addresses in EACH OF the following cases:

1. the shopper DOES NOT YET HAVE an account on your store and chooses to commence Checkout via Shortcut Button:
   Remember: they can choose ONE address from all the addresses in their PayPal account.
   i) since PayPal only passes back one address, which they call "the Shipping address", should that be used as the billing address in your order?
   ii) and what if they then change the shipping address in your store before confirming final payment?
   iii) and, subsequent to ii) what should your store do if PayPal rejects that changed address for ANY reason (such as it fails their validation checks, or falls outside of allowed countries, fails the "requires confirmed address check" in the next point below, etc)?
   iv) and what should be done if the storeowner has opted to pass the setting to PayPal that requires a confirmed address during checkout?

• • a) what happens if the customer chooses an unconfirmed address?
• • b) what happens if the customer WANTS to ship to some other place that they can't confirm? Remember, this is a setting that applies to your entire store, not just to one individual customer

2. the shopper DOES have an account on your store but has NOT logged in and chooses to commence Checkout via Shortcut Button:
   Remember: they can choose ONE address from all the addresses in their PayPal account.
   i) what gets used for the billing address in your order? is it their PayPal address? or their primary address already in your store as it would be if they were to log in first?
   ii) and what to use for the shipping address in your order?
   iii) and what if they then change the shipping address in your store before confirming final payment?
   iv) and, subsequent to iii) what should your store do if PayPal rejects that changed address for ANY reason (such as it fails their validation checks, or falls outside of allowed countries, fails the "requires confirmed address check" in the next point below, etc)?
   v) and what should be done if the storeowner has opted to pass the setting to PayPal that requires a confirmed address during checkout?

• • a) what happens if the customer chooses an unconfirmed address?
• • b) what happens if the customer WANTS to ship to some other place that they can't confirm? Remember, this is a setting that applies to your entire store, not just to one individual customer

3. the shopper DOES have an account on your store and IS logged into your store before going through checkout (either via the Shortcut button or by the radio-button on the checkout-payment screen)
   Note: Only one address can be submitted to PayPal, and PayPal calls that the "shipping" address.
   i) Which address from your store should be submitted to PayPal?
   ii) What should be done in your store if the customer overrides that address at PayPal?
   iii) What should be done then in your store if the customer decides that they want to use a different address and changes it in your store before final submission for payment?
   iv) and, subsequent to iii) what should your store do if PayPal rejects that changed address for ANY reason (such as it fails their validation checks, or falls outside of allowed countries, fails the "requires confirmed address check" in the next point below, etc)?
   v) and what should be done if the storeowner has opted to pass the setting to PayPal that requires a confirmed address during checkout?

• • a) what happens if the customer chooses an unconfirmed address?
• • b) what happens if the customer WANTS to ship to some other place that they can't confirm? Remember, this is a setting that applies to your entire store, not just to one individual customer

4. Customer does NOT have a PayPal account yet, or has never accessed the PayPal site before and therefore has no PayPal cookie in their browser, so PayPal thinks they're "new" and wants to encourage them to create an account.
   In this case, REMEMBER that PayPal ONLY accepts ONE address during this submission, and PAYPAL calls that the "SHIPPING" address ... despite the fact that on the "I don't have a PayPal account yet" screen PayPal uses that "shipping" address as the "suggested" "billing" address and pre-populates all those address fields with the SHIPPING address.
   In the case of a customer who has no account on your store or has not logged into their store account, this is moot.
   But if the customer DOES have an account on your store, is it correct for Zen Cart to submit your customer's "shipping" address to PayPal and just let PayPal use that as the "billing" address? Because that's what happens now. Nevertheless, I get complaints all the time from merchants saying they think PayPal should NOT use the submitted "shipping" address for the default "billing" address, and yet PayPal makes no provision for submitting a SEPARATE address. If half the merchants in the world think it should be one way, and half think it should be the other way, and yet PayPal says it should be only ONE way, what should Zen Cart do?

5. Of all your answers to all these questions, which specific ones are today NOT working as you believe they ought to? Please ensure there is enough detail in your reply to explain why it is a problem and what the universal solution is for it.

Your opinions are welcome. Please be sure to answer from the perspective of a solution that will work for ALL merchants and ALL customers, not just for one store alone.

Belangers:

I have been trying to resolve this issue for months, and just found out about the problem, and why my customers have not been able to make a purchase since April.

I'm curious. What changed last April that has caused this problem?

Belangers:

If Dr. Byte thinks that this is how it is supposed to be now for 8 years, and is not offering an answer for somebody like myself that needs this to work, then I will go use OpenCart, or Magento, or something that will work correctly.

What makes you so sure that these other carts don't have the same, or similar problems?

Belangers:

The developers at Zencart, or who write these haven't been losing thousands per month with this issue, we are..

Really? This has been costing you that much? With that much at stake have you considered hiring a developer to make the code work the way you want? If you did this 8months ago your investment in the development would have paid for itself many times by now, but even better, if you then decide to 'donate' the code you had developed back into the ZenCart community, we'd not only all have a 'better solution' but the ZenCart developers would be able to concentrate more of their time towards other enhancements/improvements rather than trying to fix a problem that appears to affect so few users.

Belangers:

Now, if you'd like to give us some insight as how to fix this ingenious swap up, please email it to me at m_v_belanger at yahoo dot com.

LOL. Paraphrased, "My car has broken down, so if one of you motor mechanics out their would like to send me an email I'll give you some insight as to how to fix it".

Yeah, I can see this is a great method of soliciting help.

Belangers:

We have businesses to run, mouths to feed, and bills to pay. All of this pussyfooting around for 8 years without giving up the answer is horse dung.. just give it up.

This is your problem, not ZenCarts, and not the ZenCart development team. If ZenCart doesn't suit your needs, then why on earth are you still using it?

OK, so what if you do decide to use a different eCommerce system, one more suited to your particular needs, I don't see how this is going to have any kind of negative impact to the ZenCart developers. Refresh my memory, how much did you pay for the software again?

Belangers:

PayPal states that it is Zen's error, and it is a really stupid one. I can't wait to call them to say what I have seen here. If I knew this was going to be a problem, I would have never ever used zencart. I have had nothing but really expensive headaches with it, time after time. If I spent all of the money in fixes, updates, and addons in one shot, I could have had the Cadillac of sites.

Was there a reason why you spent "all of the money in fixes, updates, and addons" (which most of us have never had to do anyway), yet this seemingly all important issue has been left for the ZenCart team to 'fix' on a purely voluntary basis, instead of you sharing?

Belangers:

Just give your users the simple code change.

This is assuming the change will be simple. When it comes to coding most people don't have a clue how simple (or complex) any given task is likely to be.

It reminds me of my old electronics repair days, where based on no knowledge at all, the customers would constantly tell me that it was a 'simple fault' because (insert reason here). Few would realise that even though it only takes 2 seconds to resolder a dry joint to effect a repair, there is no way of knowing in advance how long it would take to find the joint that needed resoldering.

Belangers:

It is our chance if it violates the policies of PayPal, not yours.

I vehemently disagree with this. It would be unconscionable for any developer to create code that violates the policy of the servers it is connecting to. This can only lead to a bad outcome for everyone.

Belangers:

Didn't anybody think when they wrote this stupid module?

I suspect that the ZenTeam have already put a LOT more thought into it than you have... with the difference being that they need to cater for the greater majority, whilst still adhering to PayPal Policy. Furthermore, I suspect that your thoughts along these lines are limited to just a single customer/checkout scenario, yet if you check DrBytes post#27 you'll note that he has covered several scenarios that haven't even crossed your mind.

Apologies for the rant, but I can't seem to grasp how people can be so 'demanding' for something they get free, and I really do get a kick out of how 'threats' to move to a different eCommerce system is somehow supposed to make the developers quiver in fear of losing a non paying customer. Threats only work if the other party has something to lose. If you change carts you will be doing the team a favour rather than anything else, because it means you'll no longer be using the forum to post negative comments and other disparaging remarks.

Just my 2cents worth.

Cheers
Rod

MrSensible:

Dr Byte -

Have there been any developments with regard to the PayPal Delivery/Shipping address issue?
Hi,
There are a lot of various discussions going on in this thread, and each has their own bent.

Can you please explain what specific symptoms you are needing a fix for?

DrByte:

Okay, Mr Belanger, if "PayPal simply doesn't need the shipping address", then please explain exactly WHY PayPal THEMSELVES allow ONLY for a SHIPPING address to be submitted, and NEVER a BILLING address. You can read it all in their API specs.

Thus far even PayPal hasn't been able to answer that question for me.

But if you can, then I'm all ears.

I appears based on your list of scenarios/questions that there is NO solution, because PayPal only manages one address.

The way it should work for the customers' sake is they should have the ability to pay AND to enter a shipping address different than their billing address.

If this can not be done with ZenCart and PayPal Express - then just tell us (ZenCart users) that an we will need to decide how to deal with that situation.

Thank you, Roland

RodG:

I'm curious. What changed last April that has caused this problem?

Apologies for the rant, but I can't seem to grasp how people can be so 'demanding' for something they get free, and I really do get a kick out of how 'threats' to move to a different eCommerce system is somehow supposed to make the developers quiver in fear of losing a non paying customer. Threats only work if the other party has something to lose. If you change carts you will be doing the team a favour rather than anything else, because it means you'll no longer be using the forum to post negative comments and other disparaging remarks.

Just my 2cents worth.

Cheers
Rod

I realize ZenCart is free - but its' promotion says "There are hundreds of shopping cart programs available, but none come close to offering the level of options, features and support available with Zen Cart®. Even the commercial programs have a hard time competing"...and users (like myself) count on ZenCart to provide a competitive ecommerce solution that works.

Just because a product is free or open souce doesn't mean it doesn't have to work.

I didn't say there's no solution.

I asked you to explain how you believe it should work in all those myriad ways that need to be considered.

Care to participate in helping come to a workable solution?

DrByte:

I didn't say there's no solution.

I asked you to explain how you believe it should work in all those myriad ways that need to be considered.

Care to participate in helping come to a workable solution?

As I mentioned: "The way it should work for the customers' sake is they should have the ability to pay AND to enter a shipping address different than their billing address."

So, if the customer does or does not have an account with the ZenCart store they should have the ability to enter a shipping address which may be different than their billing address. Since PayPal can not manage two addresses I would think ZenCart would enable the customer to enter their shipping address outside of PayPal. One thought is the customer would enter their shipping address before they pay, then they are directed to paypal to pay.

vwebworld:

One thought is the customer would enter their shipping address before they pay, then they are directed to paypal to pay.Okay, now, if your customer is already logged in and has selected their shipping address within your store, and then goes to PayPal to pay, their shipping address is indeed sent to PayPal. The key to ensuring that the customer is already logged in is to turn off the EC Shortcut Button in your ZC PayPal EC module settings.

But ... do you want to prevent them from choosing a different address on PayPal's end? Especially if you only accept "confirmed" addresses .. in which case you MUST let them select a confirmed address from the various addresses they have on-file in their PayPal account..

All of this leaves out the "billing address" part, because the billing address is basically irrelevant since PayPal is managing all of that, and basically intends to insulate the merchant from having the customer's actual billing "info"(address).

Paypal Express overides customer's address.

I guess there is no answer for this problem? We are handling over 2 a week. Whether a customer is registered or not, whatever they use for shipping address in zencart is overwritten by whatever address they have in Paypal.

Note: to someone who questioned whether this behaviour occurs in other carts. No it does not, as I have tested it myself by using a checkout as guest as well as a full account.

In both cases the shipping address entered in the cart overrode the address I have in my paypal account. Therefore this issue can be rectified through coding, whether it is essentially a zencart or paypal problem.

I would hope zencart can fix this as I have no option but to remove paypal as a payment option due to customer dissatisfaction and our extra costs.

jetx:

Paypal Express overides customer's address.

I guess there is no answer for this problem? We are handling over 2 a week. Whether a customer is registered or not, whatever they use for shipping address in zencart is overwritten by whatever address they have in Paypal.

I don't see this as a problem. It is more of a benefit. The customer using PayPal as a method of payment can/should have the ability to select the address they want the items sent to from their Paypal account and not be forced to ship to the address on the store account. They could well be buying the item as a gift for someone else.

jetx:

Note: to someone who questioned whether this behaviour occurs in other carts. No it does not, as I have tested it myself by using a checkout as guest as well as a full account.

And how many 'other carts' did you test with? You'll find that the best carts function in the same manner as ZenCart.

jetx:

In both cases the shipping address entered in the cart overrode the address I have in my paypal account.

Which to me is incorrect behaviour. When I pay something with paypal I like to choose from one of my many different shipping addresses for where the order is to be mailed. Having it mailed to the address I've entered into any given store really isn't suitable. Oftentimes I don't even have an account with the store I'm buying from, PayPal Express eliminates this need.

jetx:

Therefore this issue can be rectified through coding, whether it is essentially a zencart or paypal problem.

It's really not a 'problem'. However, I do concede that it is a behaviour that you apparently don't like.

jetx:

I would hope zencart can fix this as I have no option but to remove paypal as a payment option due to customer dissatisfaction and our extra costs.

The solution is actually quite simple. Use PayPal IPN (standard) rather than PayPal Express. This will force your customers to create a store account and enter the address you want them to use. PayPal IPN doesn't override this address (AFAIK). All it does is confirm if/when the payment has been made.

Cheers
Rod

If you had a site which suffered a minimum 2 of these a week you'd likely think otherwise. This is a very real problem, contrary to your arguments in this thread. It costs me plenty in terms of lost freight for returns. It is not practical to continue with this. Oh yes I suppose could just advise customers that the error was clearly their own. Maybe I could just point them to this thread so you could enlighten them.

With regards to paypal IPN, Dr Byte comments: http://www.zen-cart.com/showthread.php?205190-Do-I-need-to-enable-IPN-on-PayPal&p=1180848#post1180848 so we will not be going there.

It is very simple, a customer creates an account or uses COWOA, they take the time to input their preferred shipping address, click on paypal to pay for the goods, get whisked away to paypal and click the pay button without even thinking about the address in paypal because they already put the shipping address in the shopping cart. I mean do you get this?

With regards to your comment: " You'll find that the best carts function in the same manner as ZenCart" That is utter nonsense. Why don't take the time and have a look for yourself instead of drafting novels. Go to some decent, high volume sites. Try it on one of your local sites such as theiconic. You'll see they use paypal express and you'll also see that if you play customer and you take the time to put your items into the cart, input your shipping address and you hit paypal that when you confirm the order the address you put as the shipping address in the shopping cart is picked up by paypal. Checkout some others and you might see what everyone else besides you and Dr Byte are talking about.

Anyway, I am quite certain this all falls on deaf ears with you. Dr Byte, if you read this I would appreciate your comments. In the meantime I have removed paypal as a payment option.

Many European Zen Cart stores are setting up their PayPal Express module like this:

Payment Zone
--none--

Express Checkout Shortcut Button
Off

Express Checkout: Require Confirmed Address
No

Express Checkout: Select Cheapest Shipping Automatically
No

Express Checkout: Skip Payment Page
No

Express Checkout: Automatic Account Creation
No

Payment Action
Final Sale

Transaction Currency
Only EUR

Allow eCheck?
Instant Only

So there is no PayPal Express Checkout button or automatic account creation.
The customer has to register normally in the store and indicate a payment and shipping address during the checkout.
Lots of customers have old adresses in their PayPal accounts and do not check their shipping address in PayPal.
In the current module the PayPal address is taken as shipping address for the Zen Cart order, the PayPal address overwrites the shipping address that the customer has selected before in the store.
So the shopowner gets lots of orders with wrong shipping addresses and can never be sure if the customer wants the shipping really to the address in the order confirmation email or shop administration.

To solve this issue here are some modifications for the PayPal Express module in Zen Cart 1.5.3 (based on the current 1.6 code):

https://github.com/webchills/zencart/tree/PayPal-Express

This is of course only suitable for stores which are configured as described above!

With these modifications PayPal does not care about shipping addresses and the customer is not able to change the shipping address at PayPal or able to select from his PayPal address book.
No shipping options are presented and the shipping address for the order will always be the one the customer selected before during the Zen Cart checkout.
Additionaly with this modification the customer gets the PayPal website in the language he has choosen before in the store and not in the language of the shop country.
This is kind of a quick and dirty solution as I just commented out or deleted some code. Would be great to address this issue in upcoming versions as the way it is now is a real pain for many shopowners.

webchills:

To solve this issue here are some modifications for the PayPal Express module in Zen Cart 1.5.3 (based on the current 1.6 code):

https://github.com/webchills/zencart/tree/PayPal-Express

Anyone know another link, one here is 404 and search brings nothing up.

This fix sounds perfect for me. This issue is causing me a serious problem affecting approximately 60% of my orders. My store is serving a takeaway site with major impact when addresses for delivery are changed by PayPal.

The link to the repository did change, here is a working one:
https://github.com/webchills/zencart-de-paypal-express
I have added an English readme and updated the modification to Zen Cart 1.5.4