Re: Custom code - do I have to share it? - Is it a yes or no?

Hi all.

On the zen-cart website at index.php?article=25 is this: "I had some custom code made for my shop, do I have to share it?" -- Unfortunately the answer given here does not specifically say yes or no - rather that it's encouraged, but not mandatory?

I have a customized version of zen-cart for which I spent MANY thousands of dollars to a software developer to create. He knew exactly what my plans for it were. Not knowing anything about it, I took his word for it when he told me it's free open-source and that we may use it however we like.

But now that I'm reading more about zen-cart from this website itself, that's not clear to me anymore with its "GPL license".

Basically the plan is to sell subscriptions for the use of my software within my system - for which this customized version of zen-cart would be one small part of it - as another place where subscribers may sell their items. I plan to host and manage everything for my subscribers - they just upload their item details to my system and it does the rest.

However I was not planning to give away the source-code for my customized zen-cart version to them (or any other part of my system for that matter). If I did so, then the many thousands of dollars I have spent would be wasted as then they can get the extra zen-cart features for nothing and have no use for me.

In fact if I had suspected any issue at the time when I started the zen-cart section of the project, I would NOT have agreed to use zen-cart - I would have asked about this first, and if there was going to be a problem, I would have used some alternative.

Anyway... here I am now and I need to know if this is ok or not?

So I have several questions: Under the zen-cart license - MUST I give a copy of my zen-cart source-code to:

1. people to whom I sell subscriptions to use my system (where it includes use of my customised zen-cart addon)?
2. people who buy from one of these custom zen-cart shops?
3. any random stranger who may come along and ask for it - regardless of any previous association (or not) with them?

If anyone can give definite advice on this issue, then please do so. This is critical to this part of my future business plans.

Note: I have not received one cent back on my investment and have not published anything to anyone yet, so right now it's all a null issue from all sides. But I need to know in future what the situation will be.

I also want to point out that I fully respect these licenses and everyone else's rights/property, etc, and have no intention of violating them even if it is a problem for me. I simply need to know where I stand and if any future plans may have to change...

I plan to host and manage everything for my subscribers - they just upload their item details to my system and it does the rest.If they are not installing the software anywhere, but just uploading information to your system, there may not be an issue... this requires a closer analysis by a GPL expert and will depend on the details of the setup.

Someone who buys from one of the shops is unlikely to have any business knowing the code for the shop (unless you are selling the code), and people off the street certainly have no reason to get any code from you.

I suspect you are going to have identical issues (if any) with any other free e-commerce platform you might use, and if you bought a commercial one to integrate, of course there would be their licensing issues and fees.

Hi gjh42. Thanks for your reply.

To clarify:

• Subscribers would only be uploading information on their for-sale items to my system.
• They don't need to see the code - or know anything about it - in order to do this.
• They don't install any software to use it (other than obviously having a computer with web-browser on it to get to my system).
• Access to my system is via the web.
• The subscriber does not interact with the zen-cart component in order to sell their items. They interact with my system, which then sends their items to a zen-cart shop which we install and maintain for them.
• Technically, the zen-cart shop is separate to and isolated from my system - each zen-cart shop I host for my subscribers will be on another server which I control.
• I won't be selling the code, or offering any way to view the code. It will be hidden on the server and secured as is any other website.
• They would see the output from the zen-cart part in their web-browser as usual if they go to the shop we host for them as if they are a buyer. (They cannot however use its usual backend/admin features as our system takes care of the rest already.)

If any further details are required please let me know. Even if you're not sure, I don't mind can putting down more details, so whoever may know the answers has it all there already.

I can't give a definitive answer, but it sounds like you are safe in not needing to reveal the source code to anybody.

ok. Any ideas on who I need to speak to about this? Anyone else on the forum?

The GNU/GPL allows you to do what you have proposed. The key is whether you are redistributing the code or not. From your description, it doesn't sound like it.

However, I would like you to think about this from a different angle. If you were using a software with a different license, you would have to pay royalties or some other mandatory fee for the use of the software, correct? By choosing an Open Source product there are no mandatory fees, but you are selling a service that uses Zen Cart and the project is not benefiting from its use. I hope you will consider ways to give back to the community that has helped to build your business.

Hi Kim. Thanks for your reply. Yes I understand what you are saying and I agree with supporting open-source projects - I do support several already with other things I'm doing where there is no direct conflict.

(As brief history, the project I'm working on has been ongoing for years - the bulk of the custom zen-cart work was mostly done way back (I had planned to use it much earlier but things changed and I couldn't get around to it in time, so it sat around and is only now that it would be put to use shortly) - and I wasn't familiar with the open-source licensing arrangements back then. It's only recently that I have had time to investigate the hidden details of everything I now have - most of which has been developed by other people. (e.g. changing from MySQL to PostgreSQL for my own system due to a similar licensing issue - this was another thing I wasn't aware of - pointed out to me by another developer, thus why I started examining everything.))

This is a special case for me here with the custom zen-cart. It's one of those "catch-22" situations where had money not been outlayed, it never would have been developed in the first place. But if that work had to be given away, then I probably cannot recoup my investment. So either way the zen-cart community may not have gained or lost anything.

There is one more thing I haven't mentioned but which you may be pleased to hear about, however this is a completely separate matter: there are two versions of zen-cart I plan to support. The customized version is the only one that may have issues with licensing (as it would be used as described). The other version will be stock-standard zen-cart which anyone may download from here and install on their server and customise however they want as usual, then download from me a similar version of the host-side of my interface - which will be given out as open-source, since my users will need to have the thing anyway if they want to install their own stock-standard one. I wasn't planning to "GPL" it, but now after reading through I realise that I must for that particular part of it. ok, well so be it then.

The point of splitting it up though is that the extra features on the custom zen-cart are clearly not free (they cost me), thus require charging for to supply. On reading through the GPL, it's still really not 100% clear if my custom-code case is intended to have my custom zen-cart source also released out.

Anyway, in the case of the part where I'd be giving out some software, they only get one side of it - their side (which is relatively small and useless on its own) - not the other half also (or the rest of my system which drives it all). However I don't think this is an issue - making our system talk to zen-cart over the internet? They can't go and say oh and we want the rest of it for your side too?

There's nothing preventing you from running the code ON your server only, and never giving it to anyone else. There's nothing saying you "must" share it.

However, if you give (free or sell) someone any code that they run on servers other than yours, and that code uses any Zen Cart code or function calls, or in any way requires Zen Cart to run, then THAT distributed code must be distributed under GPL.
Whatever's still on YOUR server only and not distributed to others, doesn't have to be shared or licensed or anything.