Best way to make long tail urls in ZC?

Right now the website thevaporisland.com/shop uses define pages which have kind of crap default names like define_contact_us which renders this url:
http://thevaporisland.com/shop/index.php?main_page=contact_us

I would like it to be something like:
http://thevaporisland.com/shop/index.php?main_page=contact-the-vapor-island-fort-myers

How can I accomplish this?

Thanks Again,

Michael

Those 'crap default' names work just fine in Google and other search engines. It's always a good idea to know what you're talking about before posting. If you really think you need human-friendy URLs (you don't), search the Plugins area for ceon.

Steve don't be an ##############. Google looks at contact_us as one word where they look at contact-us as two seperate words, maybe YOU should know what you're talking about before you open your maw...

So anybody else besides mister know it all want to talk a look at this question?

Thanks in advance from the nicer sorts here at ZC forums...

Cheers,

Michael

BTW Steve forum rules say this:
Send, post or distribute any communication that is intended to harass, belittle, humiliate, threaten or cause embarrassment to a fellow member.

so knock it off please and answer the question.

It's rarely a good idea to take offense when it should be obvious that none was intended. When I suggested you should 'know what you're talking about', I meant that you should have done some research about Google and its algorithms before posting the question. Had you done so, you would almost certainly come to the same conclusion as most (but not all) Zenners here in the forum have: Google and other search engines have no problem indexing dynamic URLs like the ones Zencart creates, and time spent trying to 'pretty them up' is almost certainly time wasted.

I'll also point out that I did mention the ceon URL rewriter, but apparently you were so terribly offended by my comment you didn't read that far.

I'll also suggest that if I were prone to flaming Zencart newbies, chances are I wouldn't have been around here for over 8 years and 18K+ posts.

On a personal note, if you think that my suggestion that you 'know what you're talking about' constituted 'intend[ing] to harass, belittle, humiliate, threaten or cause embarrassment to a fellow member', you've led a very sheltered Internet life, my friend.

imagecrafting:

So anybody else besides mister know it all want to talk a look at this question?

Thanks in advance from the nicer sorts here at ZC forums...

Hey, Stevesh IS one of the nicer sorts.

The way you've responding to him has pretty much guaranteed that no one else around here with a clue will want to have anything more to do with you.

In fact most people around here are so nice they won't even tell you what I just did.

I'm not most people ;)

Rod

ps. > Those 'crap default' names work just fine in Google and other search engines. It's always a good idea to know what you're talking about before posting. If you really think you need human-friendy URLs (you don't), search the Plugins area for ceon.

He really did say this much nicer than I would have. I think we are all lucky that he beat me too it.

really? that's sad to hear because I asked a genuine SEO question and did not need Steve telling me I didn't know what I was talking about when it was clearly he who does not understand the difference between a - and a _. It is a legitimate concern. I am sad to hear that not only is that NOT ok to ask but that trying to belittle me by calling me stupid is considered nice by "all of the better sorts" here. I thought steves remark was off topic and rude, as is your response. I am simply trying to get a job done and do not need a lecture or a holier than thou speech.

So again, If there is an informed, polite person who would like to answer my original question, that would be awesome. I'm sure not everybody here is like you two...

Cheers Again,

Michael

Fact is, you've received the advice you asked for, but you're so fixated on the imagined slight that you don't realise it. It's important to remember that this forum isn't a Knowledge Base where you put in a question and receive a boilerplate answer. It's a community, and sometimes the best reply to your post is something you hadn't thought of. You owe it to those of us who labor here to at least consider what we're telling you and, if necessary, ask questions about our replies.

Your question was: What's the best way to make long-tail URLs in Zencart ? (I'll refrain from commenting on the buzz-phrase.) There are two answers that I can think of, and I have already provided both:

1. Don't (the best option)

2. Ceon URL rewriting mod in the plugins area.

Why do you continue to ask the same question over and over ?

Ok, fair enough. I did actually look at the CEON rewriter and that is probably what I'll go for. I may not have phrased my question quite accurately. I thought I had but apparently not. I know that google has no problem using dynamic urls but the fact is they do look at - & _ differently. I was really looking for guidance into naming ez-pages and define pages and working within the file structure to achieve what I consider to be a better naming convention for static content pages. I may be a ZC newb but I have been a web developer for over 15 years and have a pretty good idea about what I want and what I am asking for.

I just thought it came off cocky, but you say that was not intended, so I will apologize.

Cheers,

Michael

I'll apologize as well if I came across as less than courteous.

I guess I have to do some reading of my own, as I don't understand what's so important about the difference between the - and the _. My understanding is that Google and the others do look at URLs, but mainly consider page content for indexing purposes, so regardless of whether the URL says contact_us or contact-us, presumably the phrase Contact Us would appear on the page somewhere.

My understanding is that it is advised by some entities that words in a URL should be separated by - rather than _ . Whether this convention makes Google and others unable to discern the content of URLs which use _ is not something I can speak on.

gjh42:

My understanding is that it is advised by some entities that words in a URL should be separated by - rather than _ . Whether this convention makes Google and others unable to discern the content of URLs which use _ is not something I can speak on.

My understanding is that '-' is considered a hythen, and the underscore is a substitute for the (dissallowed) space character.

Cheers
Rod

That is the way I would use them, but apparently "somebody" has decreed otherwise...

Perhaps this all started when people are confused by an underlined link on a page. With an underlined link, contact_us could be misread as contact us. Only reason I could think of not using the underscore. Of course smaller things have been blown up in bigger proportions. Just like SEO.

You should also take a look at the new, upgraded Ultimate SEO URL if you need human friendly urls:

http://www.zen-cart.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=132

This plugin is currently supported provided you are using the latest zencarts.

BTW, some of us have run a test of sorts and the zencart default urls work just fine with google.

gjh42:

That is the way I would use them, but apparently "somebody" has decreed otherwise...Apparently.. :laugh:

dbltoe:

Perhaps this all started when people are confused by an underlined link on a page. With an underlined link, contact_us could be misread as contact us. Only reason I could think of not using the underscore. Of course** smaller things have been blown up in bigger proportions**. Just like SEO.nods in agreement:yes:

Has anyone within Zen Cart developers asked the question of Google? Asked it maybe in the Google WMT forum or the like to get an informed answer from Google. I agree that Google (and other SE's) can read URL's with "_" underscores instead of spaces, no argument, however within their algorithm(s) there are ranking signals and of course one of those is keywords - the example of Brown Shoes vs BrownShoes is a valid one. It is not that Google cannot read it but moreover potentially how it attributes keywords, i.e. it may attribute brownshows but not brown and shoes separately. In any case if I was trying to get Google to accurately recognize and portray in search results my two+ word products I would want to know exactly what they do/want.

It could affect plugins as well as ZC itself from an SEO viewpoint. Some put undying faith in SEO whilst others not however with ever changing algorithms it pays to keep abreast - if Google do confirm it, the hyphen, is their preference then one day soon it may reflect in their algorithms and become necessary, not preferential.

(I find typos on some of my pages occasionally through WMT keywords list for my site, wondering for example why I rank 147th for brownshoes when I don't want to rank at all for that ...ooops, check pages, find and correct error.)

shags38:

Has anyone within Zen Cart developers asked the question of Google? Asked it maybe in the Google WMT forum or the like to get an informed answer from Google. I agree that Google (and other SE's) can read URL's with "_" underscores instead of spaces, no argument, however within their algorithm(s) there are ranking signals and of course one of those is keywords - the example of Brown Shoes vs BrownShoes is a valid one. It is not that Google cannot read it but moreover potentially how it attributes keywords, i.e. it may attribute brownshows but not brown and shoes separately. In any case if I was trying to get Google to accurately recognize and portray in search results my two+ word products I would want to know exactly what they do/want.

It could affect plugins as well as ZC itself from an SEO viewpoint. Some put undying faith in SEO whilst others not however with ever changing algorithms it pays to keep abreast - if Google do confirm it, the hyphen, is their preference then one day soon it may reflect in their algorithms and become necessary, not preferential.

(I find typos on some of my pages occasionally through WMT keywords list for my site, wondering for example why I rank 147th for brownshoes when I don't want to rank at all for that ...ooops, check pages, find and correct error.)

there's TONS of info out there (including from Google) already where one can reasonably be sure that Google's algorithms are not valuating hyphens versus underscores.. Otherwise the native Zen Cart URLS would ALSO be problmatice.. (they aren't)

Like many who responded in this thread, you could do a wee bit of research to get answers.. Lots on the topic already on the internet..

DivaVocals:

there's TONS of info out there (including from Google) already where one can reasonably be sure that Google's algorithms are not valuating hyphens versus underscores.. Otherwise the native Zen Cart URLS would ALSO be problmatice.. (they aren't)

Like many who responded in this thread, you could do a wee bit of research to get answers.. Lots on the topic already on the internet..

Thanks for the advice Diva, I will look on the internet for references to this subject - wonder why I didn't think of it? I am 'reasonably sure' that if the question was put to Google then the response would put all of this conjecture to rest, or should I, we, take your word for it. There is as much 'TONS of info out there' that supports both sides of the coin, similar to varying thoughts in here, but if you have links to Google's statements on the subject then they would be most beneficial to all of us. There have been thousands of casualties of just about every Google algorithm changes over the years, including recent ones, that were 'reasonably sure' they were doing the right thing and were 'clean' - (I am not talking Black Hat casualties, they weren't casualties moreover they were rightly relegated in the rankings.) This is not to say that the subject of hyphen vs underscore would cause any site to suffer markedly however even subtle effects on balanced SEO can have marked effects on rankings. That's how SEO works, that is why it is a topic always in flux.

My suggestion was simply - those who run ZC should ask the question of Google for a definitive answer, not of you, me, or anyone else for that matter because their answers will be conjecture, opinion, interpretation, and not fact. That is of course if they actually want an answer otherwise it can be discussed at varying times in different threads as are many SEO questions until the cows come home. ('they' is used respectfully, those that build, maintain and advise on the structure of Zen Cart)

oh - and re the native ZC URL's - it is not about URL's, it is about keyword separation and attribution. I don't have any 'facts' but I do try to keep abreast and the buzz recently around SEO forums has been about keyword attribution and the effects of such with the recent Hummingbird algorithm. So, in my humble opinion it is very much worthy of keeping abreast of possible influences in search results through algorithm changes, if that involves word separation values then so be it.

Google doesn't use underscores, interesting, I wonder why? I don't know but it would be interesting to know.

So that's why I said what I said Diva.