Is this possible???

I have searched and cannot find an obvious solution to my problem which is as follows -

In my store there will be items which require collection as well as items which can be sent by courier/post.

Each item available for courier/post has its own individual shipping cost (I use the weight mod from picaflor-azul.com to add the cost in the weight field).

The issue is that if more than one item is purchased it could result in a mix where there should be no shipping fee as one or more items are to be collected - so they could all be collected, or if multiple items with shipping are chosen the total shipping may be different due to economy of scale.

The way zen-cart works the customer has to purchase and pay for shipping fees they should not incur, and I then would have to refund the difference manually.

It would be better if customers could order items but not pay for them until I have an opportunity to amend the order prior to them paying, then for them to pay using Papal.

Does anyone have any ideas if/how I could do this?

(Alternatively, can anyone suggest alternative methods which removes the need for refunds.)

My first take on a solution is to have the order total split out the shipping costs separately in the checkout.

The order would look like this:
Customer Order:
item 1 cost $2.00

• shipping - $0 pickup

item 2 cost $3.00

• shipping - $10 flat rate

item 3 cost $10.00

• shipping - $0 pickup

Order Total - Shipping Expense Summary:
pickup - 2 items = $0
flat rate - 1 item = $10

Order Sub Total:
All the pricing comes together here and the customer proceeds through to payment.

I'm uncertain of any code that exists to do this to date.

pewe:

I have searched and cannot find an obvious solution to my problem which is as follows -

In my store there will be items which require collection as well as items which can be sent by courier/post.

Each item available for courier/post has its own individual shipping cost (I use the weight mod from picaflor-azul.com to add the cost in the weight field).

The issue is that if more than one item is purchased it could result in a mix where there should be no shipping fee as one or more items are to be collected - so they could all be collected, or if multiple items with shipping are chosen the total shipping may be different due to economy of scale.

The way zen-cart works the customer has to purchase and pay for shipping fees they should not incur, and I then would have to refund the difference manually.

It would be better if customers could order items but not pay for them until I have an opportunity to amend the order prior to them paying, then for them to pay using Papal.

Does anyone have any ideas if/how I could do this?

(Alternatively, can anyone suggest alternative methods which removes the need for refunds.)

Paypal has a setting in ZC that basically requires the store owner to intervene and authorize payment/collection. Generally speaking this would be for every purchase, not just for particular items/types of items. If you change payment option from final sale to auth only, then you should be afforded the opportunity to modify the payment amount before the customer is initially charged.

Again, not an ideal situation, but answers the question asked.

mc12345678:

Paypal has a setting in ZC that basically requires the store owner to intervene and authorize payment/collection. Generally speaking this would be for every purchase, not just for particular items/types of items. If you change payment option from final sale to auth only, then you should be afforded the opportunity to modify the payment amount before the customer is initially charged.

Again, not an ideal situation, but answers the question asked.

Thanks for the responses guys.

I have the Paypal setting as Auth, and on checkout the purchaser is still sent directly to Paypal for payment.

Is there another setting I am missing?

pewe:

Thanks for the responses guys.

I have the Paypal setting as Auth, and on checkout the purchaser is still sent directly to Paypal for payment.

Is there another setting I am missing?

They are still going to get sent to paypal to obtain payment information, the thing is that they shouldn't actually get charged until you have authorized the payment. (That's my understanding of how it works.) There is information on the paypal site about how that feature works, and I haven't read it for a long while.

The idea is that paypal collects the payment information (not you at your site) and "holds" on to the transaction until you have said "go". This maintains the privacy of the customer's payment info and allows you to eventually get paid.

Solid state code will relieve the dependency of every process beyond the order subtotal... unless you like processing refunds? I've found everyone likes charging for 'mistakes' these days :(

mc12345678:

Paypal has a setting in ZC that basically requires the store owner to intervene and authorize payment/collection. Generally speaking this would be for every purchase, not just for particular items/types of items. If you change payment option from final sale to auth only, then you should be afforded the opportunity to modify the payment amount before the customer is initially charged.

Again, not an ideal situation, but answers the question asked.

pewe:

Thanks for the responses guys.

I have the Paypal setting as Auth, and on checkout the purchaser is still sent directly to Paypal for payment.

Is there another setting I am missing?

^^^^ **co-signing on this suggestion

This was going to be my suggestion as I have one client who does this.. Because the product has to be ordered and packed before it can be shipped, he does not like to charge his customer's credit card until the order is on a truck and on the way to them.

Another suggestion is to look at the Ceon Advanced Shipper package.. it is designed just for shops where different products may have varying carriers and shipping costs.. It's BRILLIANTLY written (as was all of the late Conor Kerr's software) and well worth the small cost of the package..

Thanks again.

I had a look at the documentation about 'Auth' on the Paypal site, and it appears that it will allow me to do what I need - it just means I will have to go to Paypal and 'capture' full (for single item) or reduced payment (for multiple items) for every order.

I will test it out later.

In an ideal world it would be nice if there was a way to get the paypal system to use 'Order' if there was only one item in the cart and to use 'Auth' if there was more than one item - but unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world.
It could probably be done as a plugin by an experienced coder but I'm not sure how many zen-cart users would need such a facility and it would be a 'special'.

twitchtoo:

Solid state code will relieve the dependency of every process beyond the order subtotal... unless you like processing refunds? I've found everyone likes charging for 'mistakes' these days :(

pewe:

Thanks again.

I had a look at the documentation about 'Auth' on the Paypal site, and it appears that it will allow me to do what I need - it just means I will have to go to Paypal and 'capture' full (for single item) or reduced payment (for multiple items) for every order.

I will test it out later.

---

In an ideal world it would be nice if there was a way to get the paypal system to use 'Order' if there was only one item in the cart and to use 'Auth' if there was more than one item - but unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world.
It could probably be done as a plugin by an experienced coder but I'm not sure how many zen-cart users would need such a facility and it would be a 'special'.

I didn't get a chance to ring in on twitchtoo's statement and maybe wasn't totally clear, having the issue repaired upfront (possibly using a utility such as CEON's described by Diva Vocal) is better for everyone than having to take all sort of extra actions downstream, even if that extra action is to keep the money from those that did not owe it.

As for the coding within paypal, all of the information should be available to accomplish the desired task. I guess the only thing that would concern me is that I am thinking that the value path to take is declared as a constant, if some comparison was to be done looking for one or one+ items what should be done to prevent any kind of outside influenced modification, if there is one to worry about. Thing is can't declare a constant again if it has the life of the session as what will happen if customer changes mind about cart contents? Ugh, starts down the path of addresses...

Anyways, all can be done, faster by some than others. :)

Resolving the problem on the shopping cart page is simple math along with some code. Why jump through hoops?

twitchtoo:

Resolving the problem on the shopping cart page is simple math along with some code. Why jump through hoops?

I beg to differ.. Authorize and Capture isn't really jumping through hoops.. There are some legitimate business processes/transactions where this is required. There's a reason that not only PayPal but the Authorize.net gateway includes this function.. There are situations where the shopowner may in fact need to adjust a sale before FINALIZING the actual credit card transaction. My client uses Edit Orders to adjust the order total, and authorize and capture to finalize the credit card transaction.

The other option is for Pewe to consider using the Ceon Advanced Shipper module which is designed to manage varying shipping costs at the cart level.

twitchtoo:

Resolving the problem on the shopping cart page is simple math along with some code. Why jump through hoops?

True - but on reflection, using the 'Auth' facility in Paypal is probably the neatest solution in my situation because:

• Until a customer places an order I do not know what items they have purchased, and until I know that I cannot get an accurate figure for shipping charges (if the order is to be shipped as opposed to collected, in which case I simply deduct shipping from the collected amount), and the charges will be based on the total size as well as weight. Further, I would get quotes from any one of 3 different couriers depending on the weight and size of the package, as well as its destination - and this takes time.

For this scenario what is needed is a facility for a customer to be able to store an order without paying for it, and for me to get the shipping cost then amend the order prior to them paying for it - and this facility is not available (as far as I have seen) in Zen-cart.

DivaVocals:

My client uses Edit Orders to adjust the order total, and authorize and capture to finalize the credit card transaction.

I had seen your other posts about this facility and was going to look at that next. I assumed it would be simple enough to go into admin and use this to change the shipping figure on its own.

DivaVocals:

The other option is for Pewe to consider using the Ceon Advanced Shipper module which is designed to manage varying shipping costs at the cart level.
I had seen this before - but as it covered a lot more flexibility than I need, and my store is purely to sell off a lot of personal items that are no longer required/used (a garage sale if you like) I couldn't see the point of spending the £75 they charge for it - although it may be useful for a friend who has asked me to help set up a store for his business.

HA!! it looks like you posted at the same time I posted this.. :laugh:

pewe:

and this facility is not available (as far as I have seen) in Zen-cart.There is.. It's called authorize and capture..:smile:

Let me repeat my post above..:smile:

There's a reason that not only PayPal but the Authorize.net gateway includes this function.. There are situations where the shopowner may in fact need to adjust a sale before FINALIZING the actual credit card transaction. My client uses Edit Orders to adjust the order total, and authorize and capture to finalize the credit card transaction.

I'm experienced in high volume sales, when there's hundreds of sales it's not reasonable to click through every... single... order. The cart has to work properly on every sale which will make less work, not more. My job is to refine the cart to make it more effective, if there is no code then hire someone to make one and save yourself the time... money will follow!

twitchtoo:

when there's hundreds of sales it's not reasonable to click through every... single... order.

I wholeheartedly agree.
However as I mentioned in my last but one post - mine won't be a big job - I'm only selling about 150 - 200 items, and there's only one of each item.

Manual adjustments - although tedious :yuck: - won't be a major problem :sleepy:

twitchtoo:

I'm experienced in high volume sales, when there's hundreds of sales it's not reasonable to click through every... single... order. The cart has to work properly on every sale which will make less work, not more. My job is to refine the cart to make it more effective, if there is no code then hire someone to make one and save yourself the time... money will follow!

You seem to be missing pewe's point:

pewe:

• Until a customer places an order I do not know what items they have purchased, and until I know that I cannot get an accurate figure for shipping charges (if the order is to be shipped as opposed to collected, in which case I simply deduct shipping from the collected amount), and the charges will be based on the total size as well as weight. Further, I would get quotes from any one of 3 different couriers depending on the weight and size of the package, as well as its destination - and this takes time.

YES custom code will solve the problem.. I'm the FIRST to say this regularly to folks who ask for complex functionality not covered by modules..

However, read what pewe says his functional requirements for this development are (determine if the package will be shipped or picked up, evaluate quotes from multiple shippers).. the kind of development that takes into account ALL the possible variables required to calculate the shipping in the cart for him may be more than a small business can or even SHOULD spend. A small business may not see a ROI on this kind of development investment. In that case authorize and capture is a viable solution.. and more importantly he SAYS it will work for him..

DivaVocals, I prefer to drive my car to the beach any day of the week and let the shopping carts work for me. If one order interferes with that luxury, I'll work day and night to fix the problem. Then find some sand and relax again. I'm only offering that to other people :)

Just because it works, doesn't mean it can't be improved. Like a squeaky door hinge, even if it's cheap and it works I'd rather make it swing smoothly.

pewe:

True - but on reflection, using the 'Auth' facility in Paypal is probably the neatest solution in my situation because:

• Until a customer places an order I do not know what items they have purchased, and until I know that I cannot get an accurate figure for shipping charges (if the order is to be shipped as opposed to collected, in which case I simply deduct shipping from the collected amount), and the charges will be based on the total size as well as weight. Further, I would get quotes from any one of 3 different couriers depending on the weight and size of the package, as well as its destination - and this takes time.

For this scenario what is needed is a facility for a customer to be able to store an order without paying for it, and for me to get the shipping cost then amend the order prior to them paying for it - and this facility is not available (as far as I have seen) in Zen-cart.

I've read the posts following the above, but for some reason this one sticks in my mind. Do you still think that functionally (not literally) there is no process that is a part of ZC (or easily/freely added) to it that will allow a customer to place an order without money leaving their hands, providing you the time you need to do what you need/want and then to modify the order and collect funds?
Perhaps there is some other related setting that is to be modified to make it all work the way it should. Ie purchase should come in as pending or a low status level.

After posting this, more of the conversation came in. I agree also with twitch to solve the problem to make it work and work right, but I am also seeing that there may be a trade off accepted by the OP. Then again, someone is offering their input, why not answer the questions asked and maybe get something of benefit out of it.

twitchtoo:

DivaVocals, I prefer to drive my car to the beach any day of the week and let the shopping carts work for me. If one order interferes with that luxury, I'll work day and night to fix the problem. Then find some sand and relax again. I'm only offering that to other people :)

Just because it works, doesn't mean it can't be improved. Like a squeaky door hinge, even if it's cheap and it works I'd rather make it swing smoothly.

You are preaching to the choir.. I've been working in software development as a business analyst for over 17 years.. Not disagreeing that this process can't be improved, and it's GREAT that you are offering to help others..:smile: What I am saying is not EVERYONE can afford to PAY for some upgrades.. (this community is FULL of SMALL business owners who can't always front the cost of custom work -- then there are others do not see the value of commercial work and expect all development will be free, and some shopowners may not place the same level of importance on certain automation as others.. When any of these situations are the case, if a workaround exists, then it CAN indeed be a viable solution..

Pewe has found a workable solution for himself.. (and he has STATED this) 'tis all I was pointing out..:smile: