Newby Advice Needed - how to build website

I was hoping to make that topic my next post I think it was back on the previous page, but then we went down the one-click rabbit hole.

For those reading, somewhat short and simple. At least wordpress can be run along with ZC or vice versa. There are plugins/mods/whatever you want to call it that can be installed to op in parallel. I would be more encouraging of that union if WP worked better with my mobile device. But, I also realize my device is dated (at least 3 years old)... :)

I actually took a course entitled "Wordpress for your Small Business" or something a couple years back. The class (1 day seminar) was such a joke, I left half way through when after probing it became clear the teacher did not do or understand e-commerce, nor would it be covered. They sold Tarot cards. Apparently, her website was a place to show pictures and talk about them, but if someone actually wanted to buy them, I suppose she had them over to the house to write a check. I'm sure wordpress is a fine platform, but it's all the extensions and plugins I'd rather not have to learn. My merchant account people recommended ZC as they can process payments directly from it, so I must learn it. I had been using MagentoGo but it is shutting down. I will save the php files as suggested here, then attempt to reinstall per the instructions. This forum is really great. Thanks!

mc12345678:

I was hoping to make that topic my next post I think it was back on the previous page, but then we went down the one-click rabbit hole.

For those reading, somewhat short and simple. At least wordpress can be run along with ZC or vice versa. There are plugins/mods/whatever you want to call it that can be installed to op in parallel. I would be more encouraging of that union if WP worked better with my mobile device. But, I also realize my device is dated (at least 3 years old)... :)WordPress (out the box) has been responsive on the front and BACK ends for quite some time.. They have also been UTF-8 ready for a fair bit too.. and yes there ARE plugins and modules that will integrate the two platforms and allow you to do things like this: http://tablelegworld(dot)com. The plugins and modules allow not only for "cross platform displays". but they allow the two platforms to "share" their theme/templates.

CosmosK:

I actually took a course entitled "Wordpress for your Small Business" or something a couple years back. The class (1 day seminar) was such a joke, I left half way through when after probing it became clear the teacher did not do or understand e-commerce, nor would it be covered. They sold Tarot cards. Apparently, her website was a place to show pictures and talk about them, but if someone actually wanted to buy them, I suppose she had them over to the house to write a check.Right, but in all fairness, it sounds like your expectations for a basic WordPress class may have been a tad too high..WordPress is a platform that can be used to build ANY kind of site including an e-commerce site. The MOST ANY Wordpress class can offer is showing you the BASICS of WordPress.. So just because an instructor is teaching you WordPress basics doesn't mean they can show you how to create a site that matches YOUR specific needs.. If you were building a portfolio site for a graphics artist for example, unless THAT is the topic of the WordPress class, the instructor of a BASIC WordPress class won't necessarily know what are the right tools for that SPECIFIC site build.. If you were building a membership site, with an ecommerce component to it, they wouldn't know the best tools or methods to go about achieving that either..

CosmosK:

I'm sure wordpress is a fine platform, but it's all the extensions and plugins I'd rather not have to learn.Right.. and you think you aren't gonna have to learn anything here????:laugh: I promise that you WILL need to install a module or two or even make some "one-off" code modification once you get rolling with Zen Cart to get to the functionality you are after for your store.. So unless you don't need more than the BASIC shipping modules, or don't want to offer guest checkout options just to name two examples, you are NOT going to be able to avoid learning modules/plugins here..

CosmosK:

My merchant account people recommended ZC as they can process payments directly from it, so I must learn it. I had been using MagentoGo but it is shutting down. I will save the php files as suggested here, then attempt to reinstall per the instructions. This forum is really great. Thanks!Please do not mis-understand my post.. I chimed in NOT to talk you in or out of anything.. It's your site.. Build what you want.. It sounds like Zen Cart is absolutely the right tool for your needs..

Understand that people often come to this forum to get information, and I wanted to make sure that if they ran across this thread that it includes a full compliment of available information regarding WordPress and other open source platforms out there.. I am VERY bullish on Zen Cart.. (hence my frequent use of the platform and my frequent musings in this forum:smile:) However, I am also a BIG believer that there is no "one size fits all" solution.. and while I do advocate Zen Cart 99.9% of the time for e-commerce sites, I have been working in solutions delivery as a Business Analyst/Project Manager long enough to know that as awesome as Zen Cart is, it simply cannot be ALL things for ALL sites.. I have had to build THREE sites with a MINOR e-commerce need for which it became clear early in those projects that trying to turn Zen Cart into what my clients needed was much more labor intensive than simply starting by building them what they needed/wanted using the right tools for the job.. (in these three unique cases WordPress and Joomla was the RIGHT tool for the job) So I simply wanted to add that perspective for anyone running across this thread who is "on the bubble" about the direction to take their site build.

DivaVocals:

WordPress (out the box) has been responsive on the front and BACK ends for quite some time.. They have also been UTF-8 ready for a fair bit too.. and yes there ARE plugins and modules that will integrate the two platforms and allow you to do things like this: http://tablelegworld(dot)com. The plugins and modules allow not only for "cross platform displays". but they allow the two platforms to "share" their theme/templates.

This may be and I have seen/worked with both sides of the application; however, more often than not when I arrive at a site that has that WP look to it, I can almost guarantee that my mobile browser will shut-down (whether the only page open or not) before the entire page has loaded... This happened when logging into the admin side of one site as well..

I further say that I can not discredit the application and I do agree each thing has it's use/place/ability, but I am relatively stuck with this mobile device which means I am therefore limited on how much can be done before the next "shutdown". Ie. personal "issues". :)

Anyways, I further don't know if the sites I have visited causing this have been maintained up-to-date, or if the issue is simply my device, so I can't provide a judgment overall, just on personal experience as a user. Happens on occasion when visiting/working on some other's ZC sites too, so it's not just WP by any means...

mc12345678:

This may be and I have seen/worked with both sides of the application; however, more often than not when I arrive at a site that has that WP look to it, I can almost guarantee that my mobile browser will shut-down (whether the only page open or not) before the entire page has loaded... This happened when logging into the admin side of one site as well..Not sure what a "WP look to it means", because unless the site is using one of the default WordPress themes, in my experience, like Zen Cart sites, WordPress sites can look like anything.. In the link I posted, WordPress and Zen Cart look alike so there is ONE look, not a WordPress look which is distinct from the "Zen Cart" look..

The issue would most likely be an issue with the specific sites themselves or your device (I'm thinking it's more the latter than the former).

Ok, so I reinstalled ZC mostly using the kerrinhardy.com instructions. I now have a blank screen for my website. Is this normal? I ended up using the old config.php files from the database that was previously created. I can log into the admin area. I'm not sure if something went wrong or if this is normal.

Thanks

Well, I thought I had reused the older configs files, but they were different. I overwrote with the old ones and the store now shows up. I compared the two files, and the first difference I saw was using SSL, the older not using it. Maybe my SSL isn't running correctly yet. I can come back to that later. Is there any sort of editor for the main page? I had done a website previously (not ecommerce) and I could design the whole look by editing the html page file in Word. Any thing like that for editing here? Thanks

Also, the instructions had me set a whole bunch of things to 777 permission. Are these supposed to be left that way?

CosmosK:

Well, I thought I had reused the older configs files, but they were different. I overwrote with the old ones and the store now shows up. I compared the two files, and the first difference I saw was using SSL, the older not using it. Maybe my SSL isn't running correctly yet. I can come back to that later. Is there any sort of editor for the main page? I had done a website previously (not ecommerce) and I could design the whole look by editing the html page file in Word. Any thing like that for editing here? ThanksYeah.. This is not like your webhost's "sitebuilder" kinds of tools.. that's not how a CMS system like Zen Cart works.. Lots of the look and feel is managed in your template's stylesheet, and some appearance items are managed through admin settings.. There are defined pages for added text to specific sections of the site, etc..

CosmosK:

Also, the instructions had me set a whole bunch of things to 777 permission. Are these supposed to be left that way?

Which instructions??? Because this is not the standard permissions that the Zen Cart install sets, nor are they permissions recommended by the admins..

Also, there can be some serious issues that result in copying from word to the applicable text area. There is at least one html text editor that is recommended to be installed (ckeditor), the installation for some reason trips up a lot of people, but really just need to follow the instructions and read them possibly several times before trying to install. There are others, but I haven't looked into them in a while for applicability to the latest ZC.

Oops, orignal text referenced content of a different thread and has been deleted...

mc12345678:

Also, there can be some serious issues that result in copying from word to the applicable text area. There is at least one html text editor that is recommended to be installed (ckeditor), the installation for some reason trips up a lot of people, but really just need to follow the instructions and read them possibly several times before trying to install. There are others, but I haven't looked into them in a while for applicability to the latest ZC.

Oops, orignal text referenced content of a different thread and has been deleted...I second that NO ONE should use Word for HTML editing of any kind as Word adds all kinds of nasty code behind the scenes that inexperienced siteowners who don't know how to use a text editor to create HTML know nothing about..

Lest your post be misinterpreted, CKEditor does not allow one to "design the whole look by editing the html page file in Word". It adds a WYSIWYG editor to many of the existing textarea fields in Zen Cart (product, category, manufacturer, coupon, defined pages, EZ Pages, etc)

There aren't any other WYSIWYG editors which work with current versions of Zen Cart, nor have any of them been updated in quite some time..

DivaVocals:

Which instructions??? Because this is not the standard permissions that the Zen Cart install sets, nor are they permissions recommended by the admins..

I got the download from http://www.zen-cart.com/ After unzip, there's a file called docs/1.readme_installation.html in which is states:

Creating the configure.php files
Two files need to be created on the server. These are the configure.php files that identify the settings of your particular server and the location of the files that you just loaded. After they have been created, you will then need to change the permissions on these files.

NOTE: Changing permissions can be done via your FTP program with the chmod feature. Usually clicking right on a directory or filename will open a menu with this option (perhaps under "Properties")

On the server locate the file: /catalog/includes/dist-configure.php
Rename this file to configure.php and change the permissions to 777 (read-write-execute for all)

Next, on the server locate the file: /catalog/admin/includes/dist-configure.php
Rename this file to configure.php and change the permissions to 777 (read-write-execute for all)

NOTE FOR IIS USERS: If using IIS for Windows hosting, the "chmod 777" idea for permissions settings is likely foreign to you. In IIS, under Windows, you need to right-click on the file (or folders in the next section below), and choose Properties. Then under the Security tab, ensure that the"Internet Guest Account", identified usually as: MACHINE_NAME\IUSR_MACHINE_NAME ... has at least "read" and "write" privileges... likely best to give "modify" as well. This should be done on each file/folder indicated. (If the IUSR_MACHINE_NAME account isn't listed, click "Add" and add that account from the list, and then set the required permissions.) (Note: "_MACHINE_NAME" above refers to the "machine name" or "computer name" configured by the server administrator to "name" the server.)
Set Permissions on folders

Now, change the permissions on the following directories to 777 (read/write/execute).

/catalog/cache
/catalog/images

Also, step 8 here detailing similar but not exact permission changes.

http://www.kerrinhardy.com/2009/11/21/set-file-permissions-on-folders/

DivaVocals:

nor are they permissions recommended by the admins..

Pray tell where I can find list of reccomended permissions. Or if you can tell me what code these things should be at, that would be great. Nowhere in any set of instructions does it say to change them back after install.

DivaVocals:

CKEditor does not allow one to "design the whole look by editing the html page file in Word". It adds a WYSIWYG editor to many of the existing textarea fields in Zen Cart (product, category, manufacturer, coupon, defined pages, EZ Pages, etc)

Ok, fair enough. Where can I edit how things are arranged on the front page? I've found some places to edit certain data and I have installed CK editor. I'm curious where I can find where it defines this thing is on top, this thing to the left, etc. Thanks!

Actually, it does mention the config files for after install, but no mention of the long list of directories. Can anyone tell me what those should be set to?

After Installation
When you enter the Catalog, you will receive security warnings about the configure.php files and the /zc_install directory, as well as instruction to rename your /admin/ directory.

configure.php files
You will now want to change the permissions on the configure.php files with chmod 644 (or 444 depending on your server...and sometimes setting 444 cannot be done via FTP, in which case use your host's control panel or file manager to set the permissions level.)

These are located in:
/catalog/includes/configure.php
/catalog/admin/includes/configure.php

That list being:

Now, change the permissions on the following directories to 777 (read/write/execute).

/catalog/cache
/catalog/images
/catalog/includes/languages/english/html_includes
/catalog/logs
/catalog/media
/catalog/pub
/catalog/admin/backups
/catalog/admin/images/graphs

Note: open the catalog/images directory and change all of the subdirectories and their subdirectories to 777 as well. For example (this is a partial list):
/catalog/images/attributes
/catalog/images/dvd
/catalog/images/large
/catalog/images/large/dvd
/catalog/images/medium
/catalog/images/upload

NOTE: If you miss any of the images directories and subdirectories inside /images and try to use them later, you will get an error message that you cannot write to these directories.

The instructions are WRONG/OUTDATED.. I've done so many installs that I haven't read these instructions in quite some time.. Sugget before you get too much further in this process that you delete EVERYTHING you copied up to your host and start over.. You DO NOT (yes I saud DO NOT) need to creat the configure.php files as the instructions state.. NOR do you need to set the folder permissions.. Really all you need to do is create the DB, copy over the files and folders from the zip file to your host. Then just go straight to the http://yourdomain.com/zc_install/index.php. The installer will INTELLIGENTLY build your configure.php files, detect your file path locations, and set the correct folder permissions. Follow the bouncing ball so to speak and it will walk you through everything..

Just an FYI.. I didn't need every single instance of where you got the information quoted since it's all in ONE file.. (IJS)

CosmosK:

I got the download from http://www.zen-cart.com/ After unzip, there's a file called docs/1.readme_installation.html in which is states:

Creating the configure.php files
Two files need to be created on the server. These are the configure.php files that identify the settings of your particular server and the location of the files that you just loaded. After they have been created, you will then need to change the permissions on these files.

NOTE: Changing permissions can be done via your FTP program with the chmod feature. Usually clicking right on a directory or filename will open a menu with this option (perhaps under "Properties")

On the server locate the file: /catalog/includes/dist-configure.php
Rename this file to configure.php and change the permissions to 777 (read-write-execute for all)

Next, on the server locate the file: /catalog/admin/includes/dist-configure.php
Rename this file to configure.php and change the permissions to 777 (read-write-execute for all)

NOTE FOR IIS USERS: If using IIS for Windows hosting, the "chmod 777" idea for permissions settings is likely foreign to you. In IIS, under Windows, you need to right-click on the file (or folders in the next section below), and choose Properties. Then under the Security tab, ensure that the"Internet Guest Account", identified usually as: MACHINE_NAME\IUSR_MACHINE_NAME ... has at least "read" and "write" privileges... likely best to give "modify" as well. This should be done on each file/folder indicated. (If the IUSR_MACHINE_NAME account isn't listed, click "Add" and add that account from the list, and then set the required permissions.) (Note: "_MACHINE_NAME" above refers to the "machine name" or "computer name" configured by the server administrator to "name" the server.)
Set Permissions on folders

Now, change the permissions on the following directories to 777 (read/write/execute).

/catalog/cache
/catalog/images

CosmosK:

Also, step 8 here detailing similar but not exact permission changes.

http://www.kerrinhardy.com/2009/11/21/set-file-permissions-on-folders/

CosmosK:

Pray tell where I can find list of reccomended permissions. Or if you can tell me what code these things should be at, that would be great. Nowhere in any set of instructions does it say to change them back after install.

CosmosK:

That list being:

Now, change the permissions on the following directories to 777 (read/write/execute).

/catalog/cache
/catalog/images
/catalog/includes/languages/english/html_includes
/catalog/logs
/catalog/media
/catalog/pub
/catalog/admin/backups
/catalog/admin/images/graphs

Note: open the catalog/images directory and change all of the subdirectories and their subdirectories to 777 as well. For example (this is a partial list):
/catalog/images/attributes
/catalog/images/dvd
/catalog/images/large
/catalog/images/large/dvd
/catalog/images/medium
/catalog/images/upload

NOTE: If you miss any of the images directories and subdirectories inside /images and try to use them later, you will get an error message that you cannot write to these directories.

CosmosK:

Ok, fair enough. Where can I edit how things are arranged on the front page? I've found some places to edit certain data and I have installed CK editor. I'm curious where I can find where it defines this thing is on top, this thing to the left, etc. Thanks!

The template files manage many of the appearance aspects of Zen Cart. The admin configuration settings manage many more.. Your question is too broad to give you THE answer.. It really depends on WHAT SPECIFICALLY you are trying to do/modify.. So for this you are going to have to roll up your sleeves and do some digging/searching through the support forum, and FAQs which cover MANY of the "how do I change X ??" kinds of questions.. You will find that people are A LOT more willing to help in this community when you ask questions that are specific and based on you clearly demonstrating that you are trying to "learn how to fish" vs just "coming to pick up some packaged fish" if you get what I mean:smile:..

You might want to start by going to the free downloads (plugins) link and looking for a template.. You want to try and find one that has the basic layout that you desire.. DO NOT GET CAUGHT UP in trivial things like: "Well it's not the colors I want" COLORS can be modified.. Look for a LAYOUT that is 90% of what you want. This will lessen the work you have to do, and some of your learning curve.. Suggest looking at the RESPONSIVE templates and FORGET the standard templates.

I also suggest NOT going to a vendor like Theme Forrect, 12leaves.com and MOST DEFINITELY NOT Template Monstrosity (AKA Template Monster). Their GORGEOUS but POORLY CODED templates are not favs around here as they most often include CRAP CODE (yep I said it) that plays poorly with other modules or even OBLITERATES default behaviors (and NOT in a good way) because the template makers can't be BOTHERED to provide instructions for how to PROPERLY turn things on/off from the admin..

DivaVocals:

Really all you need to do is create the DB, copy over the files and folders from the zip file to your host. Then just go straight to the http://yourdomain.com/zc_install/index.php. The installer will INTELLIGENTLY build your configure.php files, detect your file path locations, and set the correct folder permissions. Follow the bouncing ball so to speak and it will walk you through everything.. (IJS)

But rename the admin folder at the end?