more questions about upgrading

I have started this thread because I think that although it is related to my earlier thread (showthread.php?216391-Upgrading-To-v1-5-4-Database-and-public_html), my current situation has changed a bit. I hope I am not wasting anyone's time with this approach.

As I have been reading the forums, one factor that stands out clearly is that to do a righteous upgrade, it is necessary to create a second database for it. So far so good. However, when I contacted my server people to create the second database, they told me that my account is very old and only allows for one database (I can believe that, as I opened the account over ten years ago when my site was done with Front Page 2000.....small pause here while the yuk-yuks die down). So my account has been upgraded to allow for 25 databases, and I have in fact created one new database to which I plan on migrating my v151 install before embarking on the v154 upgrade.

So far, I have exported my old database to the new database and copied all my public_html files over via ftp. Well, as well know, that doesn't work. At the very least, all the links to the root refer to "public_html" and me new database uses "htdocs" as the root. So back to the Tutorial/FAQ's, where I found a set of instructions for "I want to move my Zen Cart installation to another host or a different server." If I understand the instructions correctly, I want to:

1. Create a new database on the new host (my new account)
2. Install a fresh new install of v151 in that new database
3. Test it, and when it is working, then
4. Make a backup of the new configure.php files and save them locally
5. Make a backup of the OLD database and Store files
6. Upload the OLD Database and Store files over the NEW Database and Store files (from 2-3 above)
7. ...is step 5 on the tutorial
8. ...is step 6 on the tutorial
9. ...is step 7 on the tutorial

Here are my primary questions:

a. The naming convention for the root directory in the new account is "htdocs" not "public_html" Will that be accommodated when I do the fresh install of v151 in the NEW database?
b. I want to test the NEW Database and Store prior to going live with it. At what point in the instructions above do I complete the install, yet am able to stay live with the original account? And what do I don't do to allow that to happen?
c. Once I have the NEW database working in test mode, my plan is to go live with it, and delete the OLD database, in this case, account.
d. Once I am successfully live with v151 in the NEW database, I plan to create another NEW databse, create a demo directory under the root and install v154 there, where I can fiddle with it, following the upgrade instructions.

Please clarify any difficulty I may have with "htdocs" versus "public_html", and please review my plan for reasonableness. Of course, any and all helpful critique will be gratefully appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Phil
Heirlooms To Cherish
https://www.heirloomstocherish.com

Couple of things... Your database is only the data that is manipulated by the files that are being moved around/stored/overwritten. So, need to be clear about that first.

Second, why the partial upgrade to 1.5.1 followed by going to 1.5.4?

The folder/sub-folder issue related to public_html/htdocs... Those "folders" are important to the file path information and other things finding the files... Ie., your domain name points to a directory... Usually that directory is public_html... As you use the zc_install process, it will ask you basically for how the internet gets to your site and how the files can be found within the server structure... Whatever you provide for those two parts is what will be used in the configure.php files. So if your store is located at /usr/home/me/files/public_html/docs1/htdocs2, (which is a mess to use and an indication that a lot has been attempted/a lot of other things are installed) and the domain name for your site is me.com then me.com should map to /usr/home/me/files/public_html/docs1/htdocs2 and ZC needs to be given those two pieces of information.

Some of the instructions above could lead down a messy path... Really should use Dr. Byte's upgrade instructions, the reference to which I do not currently have on hand. (Problem with simply "overwriting" the files only, is that any files that have been removed through the version changes do not get removed by overwriting... )

It is important when starting to branch off into additional databases that if the intention is that each of those databases are to support a single store's upgrade that the DB_PREFIX be consistent with all of them. It can be worked around; but it is far easier to just leave the same database prefix for all "related" databases...

Phil Soth:

So far, I have exported my old database to the new database

Wrong! (It can be done this way, but it isn't what the instructions say).

Phil Soth:

and copied all my public_html files over via ftp.

Hopefully you did this into a different directory/folder than the original files ?

Phil Soth:

Well, as well know, that doesn't work.

We don't know any such thing.

Phil Soth:

At the very least, all the links to the root refer to "public_html"
and me new database uses "htdocs" as the root.

With rare exceptions, the only 'links' of serious consideration are those found in the 2 configure.php files.

Phil Soth:

and me new database uses "htdocs" as the root.

Sorry, but no it doesn't. The database doesn't have a 'root' in the sense that you are implying. The database is in an inaccessible (to you) place on the server. All you need to know about it is the name of the server that it is hosted (usually 'localhost' or '127.0.0.1') and the name of the database.

Phil Soth:

So back to the Tutorial/FAQ's, where I found a set of instructions for "I want to move my Zen Cart installation to another host or a different server." If I understand the instructions correctly, I want to:

1. Create a new database on the new host (my new account)
2. Install a fresh new install of v151 in that new database
3. Test it, and when it is working, then
4. Make a backup of the new configure.php files and save them locally
5. Make a backup of the OLD database and Store files
6. Upload the OLD Database and Store files over the NEW Database and Store files (from 2-3 above)
7. ...is step 5 on the tutorial
8. ...is step 6 on the tutorial
9. ...is step 7 on the tutorial

These appear to be correct/valid instructions, but note that you shouldn't have "exported the old database to the new database" until step#6.
The way I'm reading your comments, you actually did this in step#2.

Phil Soth:

Here are my primary questions:

a. The naming convention for the root directory in the new account is "htdocs" not "public_html" Will that be accommodated when I do the fresh install of v151 in the NEW database?

Although I'm cringing at your terminology because you don't actually 'install into a database', the new root directory name will be added to the 2 configure.php files (where it is needed).

In fact it is this aspect of the upgrade that it is recommended to do a 'fresh install'. If you don't do a fresh install the you'll need to manually change the configure.php files to reflect the change in the file path, and this is one area where many people seem to get things wrong. A 'fresh install' mitigates this possibility by setting up the correct paths for the new install.

Phil Soth:

b. I want to test the NEW Database and Store prior to going live with it. At what point in the instructions above do I complete the install,

This is step#3 in the instructions above, but you really will be testing a new store (preferably with the example products).

This will not be a copy of your original store in any way. All being well you should now be able to access both the new and the old stores, ableit with a slightly different URL.

eg: if your old store was 'http://mystore.com" the new store will be "http://mystore.com/htdocs"

Don't worry if the new URL isn't to your liking. The important thing here is that you should now have two functioning stores.

Phil Soth:

yet am able to stay live with the original account?

I'm a little confused here. You never said anything about having a new account. You only mentioned that the account was upgraded, which implies the account itself hasn't changed, only options/features associated with the account.

Phil Soth:

And what do I don't do to allow that to happen?

You DO need to follow the instructions. You don't skip ahead and "export the old database to the new database" until you get to step#6.

Phil Soth:

c. Once I have the NEW database working in test mode, my plan is to go live with it,

You are getting ahead of yourself again. The new site (and database) will have no customisations, it will be using the 'classic' template, and the database will contain the example/demo products. In other words, it isn't anywhere near ready to 'go live'

At this point you are only on step#3.
In order to go live with the template, products, etc from your old database you still need to complete steps #4 through to #6.

Phil Soth:

and delete the OLD database, in this case, account.

There's that old/new 'account' again. If you really do have an 'old account' and a 'new account' you will also have two cPanel logins (assuming your host uses cPanel). Is this really the case?

Phil Soth:

d. Once I am successfully live with v151 in the NEW database, I plan to create another NEW databse, create a demo directory under the root and install v154 there, where I can fiddle with it, following the upgrade instructions.

This seems a bit silly and pointless, with the only benefit being that it'll give you a bit more experience as to how to upgrade and/or move to a different server. I'd suggest you go directly to V1.5.4, and if you still want another site to 'fiddle with' it is then just a matter of following the migration/move instructions so as to avoid messing around with an unnecessary upgrade.

Phil Soth:

Please clarify any difficulty I may have with "htdocs" versus "public_html",

These's not much difference between these two folder names other than 'htdocs' is what Windows servers call the DocumentRoot folder and 'public_html' is what every other system calls it (by default).

As a general rule you'll not be able to place website files (and have them work) unless they are placed in these pre-defined folders, and you can't rename them and expect things to work either.

After you've complete step#6 you should end up with two near identical sites, the original, and the V1.5.x upgraded version.
Both sites should be fully functional, again, using a slightly different URL. It is only that this time you should consider deleting/removing the old site, and if you then what to make the new site accessible using the old URL I would suggest you come back here to seek further advice, as there are several ways of doing this, and the best way will be somewhat dependent of where the files (both old and new) are actually located. If when asking you don't provide this important information the first thing we'll do is to ask you for them. :)

Phil Soth:

and please review my plan for reasonableness. Of course, any and all helpful critique will be gratefully appreciated.

You asked. I've given. :-)

Cheers
RodG.

mc12345678 and RodG

Wow! I am so pleased with the effort and time you two put into responding to my post. I am guilty of misusing and interchanging terminology, so it's no wonder you may be a bit confused about what I wrote. To hopefully clarify the landscape, here is my situation in the form of a "tree:"

Server Company
...Old Host (can handle only one database)
......Old Account-User
.........public_html (Zen Cart directory at this level; this will eventually go away)
...New Host (can handle more than 1 database, up to 25)
......New Account-User
.........cgi-bin
.........htdocs (I think this is where my new Zen Cart will go; "public_html" does not exist)
............Demo (doesn't exist yet, but this is where I think I want to do testing on v1.5.4, prior to going live

All of my previous narrative describes what I think I need to do to negotiate moving the live store from the Old Host/Account-User to the New Host/Account-User, then adding "Demo" as a sub-directory in preparation of the v1.5.4 upgrade.

I hope this clarifies what I'm up against. You guys must have the patience of Job to endure my flailings around, but please go with me a while longer.

Please advise.
Phil

Phil Soth:

mc12345678 and RodG
Wow! I am so pleased with the effort and time you two put into responding to my post. I am guilty of misusing and interchanging terminology,

Nothing to really worry about. You are far from being alone, and in many cases it isn't really important either.

Phil Soth:

so it's no wonder you may be a bit confused about what I wrote.

If we need to ask about terminology, is is usually for clarification purposes rather than us being 'confused'. If we aren't all talking/thinking about the same things then we need to do a little bit of guess work, and that can lead to confusion and even bad advice.

Phil Soth:

To hopefully clarify the landscape, here is my situation in the form of a "tree:"

Server Company
...Old Host (can handle only one database)
......**Old Account-User **
.........public_html (Zen Cart directory at this level; this will eventually go away)
...New Host (can handle more than 1 database, up to 25)
......New Account-User
.........cgi-bin
.........htdocs (I think this is where my new Zen Cart will go; "public_html" does not exist)
............Demo (doesn't exist yet, but this is where I think I want to do testing on v1.5.4, prior to going live

Thanks. I've 'bolded' the bits of info that I needed clarification with, and this being the case, I actually have good news for you. The fact that you have two different accounts means that you are going to have things a lot easier than if you were trying to do the upgrade with just a single account.

My only concern now though is that with the two different accounts will will probably have two different domain names.
One associated with the old site, and one for the new site.

I'm not saying that this is the case, but when you come to FTP'ing the files you will either need to use a different URL for each of the sites, OR, you will need to access the site(s) using their IP addresses.

IOW, you can't access both accounts/sites with the same connection details. If you can, then you really have confused me :-)

Phil Soth:

All of my previous narrative describes what I think I need to do to negotiate moving the live store from the Old Host/Account-User to the New Host/Account-User, then adding "Demo" as a sub-directory in preparation of the v1.5.4 upgrade.

Great, because all of the comments I previously made are still valid (mostly).
The most significant thing that I sated that would be wrong (based on my current understanding) is

RodG:

if your old store was 'http://mystore.com" the new store will be "http://mystore.com/htdocs"

The scenario now word be
oldstore = 'http://oldstore.com" and
oldstore = 'http://newstore.com"

IOW, the new store will NOT be in a sub-folder of the old store.

The only other difference in the instructions and info given would relate to

RodG:

if you then what to make the new site accessible using the old URL I would suggest you come back here to seek further advice, as there are several ways of doing this, and the best way will be somewhat dependent of where the files (both old and new) are actually located. If when asking you don't provide this important information the first thing we'll do is to ask you for them. :)

Although this will still apply, the fact that you have two different accounts (and that you won't be needing to place the new store into a subfolder) means that this 'final' change will be a really simple matter of changing the DNS entries.
If both the old and new stores were under the same account with the new store placed into a subfolder you would be needing to change the 'document root' setting and the ZenCart configure.php files in order to get the same end result.

Phil Soth:

I hope this clarifies what I'm up against.

Yup, I pretty sure it does, and as I say, you've now got it somewhat easier than I originally thought, as you can now do the upgrade and migration of the old store data with no risk of messing up the old store while doing so. If you happen to mess up the new store you can simply delete everything and try again. :-)

Phil Soth:

You guys must have the patience of Job to endure my flailings around, but please go with me a while longer.

We try our best, but some people make it difficult at times (not you, so far <smiles>). About the only time I lose my patience is if/when people seek advice and then ignore it (or worse, they'll argue about it) when it is given.

Cheers
RodG

Phil Soth:

mc12345678 and RodG

Wow! I am so pleased with the effort and time you two put into responding to my post. I am guilty of misusing and interchanging terminology, so it's no wonder you may be a bit confused about what I wrote. To hopefully clarify the landscape, here is my situation in the form of a "tree:"

Server Company
...Old Host (can handle only one database)
......Old Account-User
.........public_html (Zen Cart directory at this level; this will eventually go away)
...New Host (can handle more than 1 database, up to 25)
......New Account-User
.........cgi-bin
.........htdocs (I think this is where my new Zen Cart will go; "public_html" does not exist)
............Demo (doesn't exist yet, but this is where I think I want to do testing on v1.5.4, prior to going live

All of my previous narrative describes what I think I need to do to negotiate moving the live store from the Old Host/Account-User to the New Host/Account-User, then adding "Demo" as a sub-directory in preparation of the v1.5.4 upgrade.

I hope this clarifies what I'm up against. You guys must have the patience of Job to endure my flailings around, but please go with me a while longer.

Please advise.
Phil

Started this last night, but hadn't posted...

It's some of what we do. :)

So, out the gate, I'm going to leave the transfer of the uri pointing to the old site to the new site for rodg, because he obviously has some ideas, and I do too now that the landcape is much clearer, but don't want too many cooks in the kitchen...

So rule one... When transferring from one host to another, keep it simple... Transfer the files and data, but don't upgrade yet. If you try to do both, then when something goes wrong one doesn't know what issue is caused by what... (Okay not really a rule, but a really really good suggestion).

So after the files are copied over, and a database has been named with a known "user" and password, and other credential information to access the database, delete the includes/configure.php and admin/includes/configure.php files, rename the admin directory back to admin, then load the zc_install folder to the new server, do an install with the zc_install...this will create the configure.php files deleted above (unless you want to try to modify those files on your own, but really, why not just let zc do it?)

Then in phpmyadmin you can drop all/any tables of that database and then load in the database from the old store... (There may be some hoops to jump through to make this successful, but...)

Then you could start developing your update/upgrade in the Demo directory which is similar to installing a new site like was just done above... Install the demo product in this one. Finish off the upgrade as RodG suggested... and then can continue down the process of install/upgrade etc... Probably saying the same thing as RodG did, but I had already written all of this.. :p