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Friendly URLs and Google Indexing

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7 Jul 2015, 6:48 PM
#1
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Friendly URLs and Google Indexing

First off, I've asked questions before now and the Zen Cart community is the best. They make serious attempts to solve your problems despite us newbies alot of times not knowing how to ask the question.

I'm trying to get my site indexed in Google and am running into 2 issues ( I believe)

  1. Not having user friendly urls. Based on what I've read online, some developers say it isn't important but SEO people think it is.
  2. Getting duplicate content seems like at the category level, which means that it doesn't seem like my actual products get indexed.

First, I started looking at the plugins to take care of the friendly urls Simple SEO, Ceon and Ultimate and not having experience with any of them, is there some reason I should try one over another? Maybe how my site is set up (Version 1.5.4) or some other criteria?

Second, is anyone else having the duplicate content issue. Alot of times I do have weird problems, but in this case someone else should also be having it. Just asking there are any suggestions for how to handle this.

Thank you very much for the previous help as well as with this discussion.

7 Jul 2015, 8:36 PM
#2
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Re: Friendly URLs and Google Indexing

If you go down the route of "friendly" urls, either of the last two in your list would be the way to go. And actually it may make things easier/faster to be indexed if you use something like simple xml I think it is called. Basically it's code to generate the places that the browsers should go to look at what is on your site. If your template is properly generated then there should be a canonical link in the top of the page source and that two linked products (found on different pages, but having the same content) should have the same canonical link... So it my be a template issue if such linked product are shown as duplicate...

7 Jul 2015, 8:46 PM
#3
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Re: Friendly URLs and Google Indexing

mc12345678:

If you go down the route of "friendly" urls, either of the last two in your list would be the way to go. And actually it may make things easier/faster to be indexed if you use something like simple xml I think it is called. Basically it's code to generate the places that the browsers should go to look at what is on your site. If your template is properly generated then there should be a canonical link in the top of the page source and that two linked products (found on different pages, but having the same content) should have the same canonical link... So it my be a template issue if such linked product are shown as duplicate...

I did look at canonization but wasn't aware that there was a function with zen cart to supply it. Some of the blogs scared me off of the idea, which with hindsight might have been a good thing.

Is there somewhere I can look to see the canonical link.

Thanks (I'm keeping the cat off the keyboard)

7 Jul 2015, 9:02 PM
#4
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Re: Friendly URLs and Google Indexing

Hahaha!!!

If the template supports it, use your browser to view the page source: right click and choose something lke view source. Search for canonical and it should be in the <head> section.

There are a number of newer canonical modifications that can be made to support other "useful" data which might be some of what read about, but baby steps...

Btw, just think about where your cat probably was last, and then where your hands go... :P

7 Jul 2015, 9:22 PM
#5
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Re: Friendly URLs and Google Indexing

mc12345678:

Hahaha!!!

If the template supports it, use your browser to view the page source: right click and choose something lke view source. Search for canonical and it should be in the <head> section.

There are a number of newer canonical modifications that can be made to support other "useful" data which might be some of what read about, but baby steps...

Btw, just think about where your cat probably was last, and then where your hands go... :P

Thanks checked out the canonical. That appears to have what I'd like indexed. Will look into the last two friendly URLs, after I sterilize my keyboard.

7 Jul 2015, 9:42 PM
#6
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Re: Friendly URLs and Google Indexing

racingtech:

Thanks checked out the canonical. That appears to have what I'd like indexed. Will look into the last two friendly URLs, after I sterilize my keyboard.

I use easypop4 to upload my products. Does that mean I should use the CEON URI plugin?

7 Jul 2015, 10:31 PM
#7
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Re: Friendly URLs and Google Indexing

racingtech:

  1. Not having user friendly urls. Based on what I've read online, some developers say it isn't important but SEO people think it is.

Developers tend to offer free advice. SEO people are generally trying to sell you a service.

Make of that what you will. :-)

I offer this advice from googlewebmastercentral . blogspot . com . au/2008/09/dynamic-urls-vs-static-urls.html


**Does that mean I should avoid rewriting dynamic URLs at all?

**That's our recommendation, unless your rewrites are limited to removing unnecessary parameters, or you are very diligent in removing all parameters that could cause problems. If you transform your dynamic URL to make it look static you should be aware that we might not be able to interpret the information correctly in all cases. If you want to serve a static equivalent of your site, you might want to consider transforming the underlying content by serving a replacement which is truly static. One example would be to generate files for all the paths and make them accessible somewhere on your site. However, if you're using URL rewriting (rather than making a copy of the content) to produce static-looking URLs from a dynamic site, you could be doing harm rather than good. Feel free to serve us your standard dynamic URL and we will automatically find the parameters which are unnecessary.

racingtech:

  1. Getting duplicate content seems like at the category level, which means that it doesn't seem like my actual products get indexed.

As others have mentioned, canonical links is the solution to this problem.

Cheers
RodG

8 Jul 2015, 4:51 PM
#8
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Re: Friendly URLs and Google Indexing

racingtech:

I use easypop4 to upload my products. Does that mean I should use the CEON URI plugin?

Again, if going down the route of implementing an user friendly uri rewriter, technically either of the two would still be acceptable. Use of CEON URI without additional code would require manually updating the product info. The additional code is available as a commercial add-on. USU autogenerates the URI following a set of rules and can be used on an existing site without additional code. The look and background operation of the two is different.

CEON URI in my experience offers more flexibility in the final URI.

Continued operation of a site using either of these two mods requires maintaining them up-to-date and supported. Lack of either can have a significant effect on the site, it's ranking, and sales (income)...

8 Jul 2015, 8:21 PM
#9
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Re: Friendly URLs and Google Indexing

mc12345678:

Again, if going down the route of implementing an user friendly uri rewriter, technically either of the two would still be acceptable. Use of CEON URI without additional code would require manually updating the product info. The additional code is available as a commercial add-on. USU autogenerates the URI following a set of rules and can be used on an existing site without additional code. The look and background operation of the two is different.

CEON URI in my experience offers more flexibility in the final URI.

Continued operation of a site using either of these two mods requires maintaining them up-to-date and supported. Lack of either can have a significant effect on the site, it's ranking, and sales (income)...

You seem like a likable guy. If you were to state an opinion on whether to leave the urls or make them friendly which would you do?

My hope was that with EasyPop4 that I could do a download, update a field and reupload to catchup the loaded content with the new url scheme. Doesn't sound like that is the case.

Thanks

8 Jul 2015, 9:24 PM
#10
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Re: Friendly URLs and Google Indexing

racingtech:

You seem like a likable guy. If you were to state an opinion on whether to leave the urls or make them friendly which would you do?

My hope was that with EasyPop4 that I could do a download, update a field and reupload to catchup the loaded content with the new url scheme. Doesn't sound like that is the case.

Thanks

Why thank you. :)

There is a version of EP4 that can do that (remaps on export of the database), but that aside, the real "question" comes down to the need/use of rewritten uris. RodG has presented information associated with the "need" of such rewriting and the document points out the possibilities of things going wrong which are real and true. I've used a uri rewriter on a site because of the nature of the site, the organization, and goals desired/expected. The organization is a public service/non-profit group. Interaction with the public is brief and site delivery needs to be direct. Direct to product, direct to activities, etc... .htaccess rules can be written, but any modification requires ftp to the site. Instead, because those that maintain/access it do so from the admin panel, modifcations/additions need to be easy to do. As for rankings, well as it appears at the moment the organization is one of few that has (or tken advantage of) free access to google adwords as a non-profit, which places the advertising first in more than a few searches. There is still some content work that could bump it up on standard searches, but the site is undergoing a shift from having a "main" page nd a ZC to just having ZC. The existing content must not be lost and sadly was put together in a less than easy way to transfer.

Anyways, those are my excuses, but it is a bit of a commitment to go the route of URI mapping including potentially technical knowledge on how to resolve issues that my arise. As said earlier, SEO peeps are in business to make money/sell something. This can include the services to work on, modify, and otherwise support the request.

Thinking about it, I haven't tried it yet, but I think that if a site owner wanted to desist using CEON, the uri(s) could be made inactive and all would return to normal (assuming it is/was a phased removal). Anyways, hopefully you have enough information to make some form of informative choice. As to using EP4 (or any method of product entry) with USU, once the product was uploaded/entered the rewritten uri is immediately available following whatever rule(s) that have been established...

8 Jul 2015, 9:59 PM
#11
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Re: Friendly URLs and Google Indexing

mc12345678:

Why thank you. :)

There is a version of EP4 that can do that (remaps on export of the database), but that aside, the real "question" comes down to the need/use of rewritten uris. RodG has presented information associated with the "need" of such rewriting and the document points out the possibilities of things going wrong which are real and true. I've used a uri rewriter on a site because of the nature of the site, the organization, and goals desired/expected. The organization is a public service/non-profit group. Interaction with the public is brief and site delivery needs to be direct. Direct to product, direct to activities, etc... .htaccess rules can be written, but any modification requires ftp to the site. Instead, because those that maintain/access it do so from the admin panel, modifcations/additions need to be easy to do. As for rankings, well as it appears at the moment the organization is one of few that has (or tken advantage of) free access to google adwords as a non-profit, which places the advertising first in more than a few searches. There is still some content work that could bump it up on standard searches, but the site is undergoing a shift from having a "main" page nd a ZC to just having ZC. The existing content must not be lost and sadly was put together in a less than easy way to transfer.

Anyways, those are my excuses, but it is a bit of a commitment to go the route of URI mapping including potentially technical knowledge on how to resolve issues that my arise. As said earlier, SEO peeps are in business to make money/sell something. This can include the services to work on, modify, and otherwise support the request.

Thinking about it, I haven't tried it yet, but I think that if a site owner wanted to desist using CEON, the uri(s) could be made inactive and all would return to normal (assuming it is/was a phased removal). Anyways, hopefully you have enough information to make some form of informative choice. As to using EP4 (or any method of product entry) with USU, once the product was uploaded/entered the rewritten uri is immediately available following whatever rule(s) that have been established...

Thanks for taking the time to write all of that, if it weren't for what my cat was doing before getting on the keyboard, having cat that could type could come in handy.

I've have already installed and tested CEON on my development box and was rather impressed with it but, I think at this time I have enough to worry about and along with the probable limited effectiveness of it, I don't think I'm going to move it to the site. The bottom line was an attempt to get the site better ranked and there are many other things I need to work on that would probably be more effective.

Again, thank you very much for your veteran help and insight!

11 Jul 2015, 10:47 AM
#12
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Re: Friendly URLs and Google Indexing

For about three years now we have been running a number of sites, all selling pretty much the same thing, but in different variations and configurations. A couple of sites use CEON URI MAPPING - others are left with their native dynamic URL's.

In the initial stages, we looked often at whether the "friendly" URL's influenced Search Engine ranking or not...

We found no obvious advantage in using URI re-writing, or leaving the URL's native. Google seems to cope just fine with either.

Also, the "argument" that verbal URL's are more customer-friendly may just be a red-herring. We've not seen any event (in over 50,000 transactions across all sites in the last 3 years), where a customer was confused by the URL. Almost everyone ignores it. As long as they are on the page they expect to be on, it matters not a hoot what appears in the address bar.

11 Jul 2015, 4:06 PM
#13
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Re: Friendly URLs and Google Indexing

schoolboy:

For about three years now we have been running a number of sites, all selling pretty much the same thing, but in different variations and configurations. A couple of sites use CEON URI MAPPING - others are left with their native dynamic URL's.

In the initial stages, we looked often at whether the "friendly" URL's influenced Search Engine ranking or not...

We found no obvious advantage in using URI re-writing, or leaving the URL's native. Google seems to cope just fine with either.

Also, the "argument" that verbal URL's are more customer-friendly may just be a red-herring. We've not seen any event (in over 50,000 transactions across all sites in the last 3 years), where a customer was confused by the URL. Almost everyone ignores it. As long as they are on the page they expect to be on, it matters not a hoot what appears in the address bar.

Thank you very much for a more experienced conclusion.
I had checked and Google seems to be indexing everything fine. I did notice that the items with no meta information, i.e. meta title and meta description, don't get indexed.
I'm not working to rectify this.

Thanks again for the confirmation!

11 Jul 2015, 5:42 PM
#14
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Re: Friendly URLs and Google Indexing

racingtech:

Thank you very much for a more experienced conclusion.
I had checked and Google seems to be indexing everything fine. I did notice that the items with no meta information, i.e. meta title and meta description, don't get indexed.
I'm not working to rectify this.

Thanks again for the confirmation!
Meant I am working to rectify this.

11 Jul 2015, 10:59 PM
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Re: Friendly URLs and Google Indexing

racingtech:

I did notice that the items with no meta information, i.e. meta title and meta description, don't get indexed.

Zen-Cart should be creating this data based on the page and page contents. The only reason I can think of why it wouldn't is if you have used the manual overrides and defined them to be 'nothing'.

Cheers
RodG

12 Jul 2015, 7:37 AM
#16
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Re: Friendly URLs and Google Indexing

racingtech:

Thank you very much for a more experienced conclusion.
I had checked and Google seems to be indexing everything fine. I did notice that the items with no meta information, i.e. meta title and meta description, don't get indexed.
I'm not working to rectify this.

Thanks again for the confirmation!

Zencart will automatically allocate data to the meta headers. Where it doesn't (eg: EZPages) you configure these in meta_tags.php .

Google (and most search engines) now like to use STRUCTURED DATA formatting to reference content for indexing and (partly) search ranking. (Google calls it RICH SNIPPETS).

STRUCTURED DATA is enabled by making changes to certain php code pages, and the nature of the code edits and the way to embed the changes (in the PRODUCT pages) was given by Melanie Prough a couple of years ago.

Structured Data is the embedding of specific INLINE MET DATA in accordance with the protocols of http://schema.org . There are other Semantic Data XMLNS vocabularies - one that is particularly relevant to eCommerce is the GOODRELATIONS vocabulary set established by http://heppnetz.de/projects/goodrelations/.

STRUCTURED DATA (inline meta data) is basically the quest to "give content understandable meanings" to digital repositories (of which a search engine database is an example).

Take for example, a number - 2.95 .

What does this MEAN to a "computer" ? Unless you tell it what the 2.95 is referring to, it cannot know.

So, the objective of projects like SCHEMA.ORG and GOODRELATIONS is to indicate exactly what is being meant, when " 2.95 " appears in the content.

Is is the PRICE of something?
Is it a FRACTION of something?
Is it the TEMPERATURE of something?
Is it the HEIGHT / WEIGHT / LENGTH of something?
... etc...

A computer will not intuitively know what the 2.95 is referring to, unless we apply a VOCABULARY DEFINITION to it.

Here is a product_info_display page (parts of it), now rendered in HTML, WITHOUT an inline Meta Data definition:-

<!--bof Product Name-->
<h1 id="productName">Acrylic Plastic Traffolyte Tag - black-on-white</h1>
<!--eof Product Name-->

<!--bof Product Price block -->
<h2 id="productPrices" class="productGeneral"> Starting at: £4.95</h2>

Here is the same information, now with VOCABULARY PROPERTIES embedded to "tell a computer" what everything MEANS:

<!--bof Product Name-->
<h1 id="productName"><span itemprop="name">Acrylic Plastic Traffolyte Tag - black-on-white</span></h1>
<!--eof Product Name-->

<!--bof Product Price block -->
<h2 id="productPrices" class="productGeneral">
Starting at: <span itemprop="offerDetails" itemscope itemtype="http://data-vocabulary.org/Offer">
<meta itemprop="currency" content="GBP"/><span itemprop="price">£4.95</span>
<span itemprop="condition" content="new"> </span></span></h2>
12 Jul 2015, 8:30 AM
#17
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Re: Friendly URLs and Google Indexing

The purpose of STRUCTURED DATA should therefore be obvious - it has the purpose of applying MEANING to content.

This is already becoming important in terms of (so called) "SEO", because if the meaning and objective of the content of any given page is DESCRIBED (according to the vocabulary standards set by organisations such as schema.org and heppnetz.de) then search engines will be able to correlate search phrases, with page results, far more accuratley.

Right now, there is no evidence showing that simply embedding structured data into your page will measurably influence your page rank on search engine results. There are many, many more factors search engines consider in evaluating a page's "worth" against a specific search term.

But Google likes structured data when rendering the description of a search result. In the past, Google would have just taken the <meta name="description" content="blah blah blah"> as being its main reference for descriptors. In recent years - and because meta headers are so widely abused by webmasters - Google largely ignores them today, preferring to look within the content of a page for relevant descriptors.

Now, if you TELL Google (using structured data - inline meta-data) exactly what each component of the content MEANS, then you are really helping Google determine a very accurate idea of what it all relates to - and Google will now use this to format its descriptors in the search results.

Research (I can't recall by whom) is showing that CTR (click-thru-rates) on search results that use structured data and significantly higher than non-formatted results...

... and the reason is that the structured data helps google determine RELEVANCY to any given search term.

The greater the relevancy of your page content to the search term being used by someone, the higher up the search rankings you will appear. And because the search RESULTS will more accurately MATCH (or reflect) what the person was looking for, the greater the chance is that they will click YOUR link, rather than someone else's.

In time, and with ongoing tweaking and polishing of the structured data protocols, the effect of inline meta-data will be that it will be a very big influencer of page ranking on search engines. (Amongst all other ranking criteria, of course).

SO...

By "programming" your software to render HTML with accurate inline meta-data, COUPLED WITH well-written CONTENT IN THE PAGE, practically all of your on-site (on-page) "SEO" will happen automatically.

THERE WILL ABSOLUTELY BE NO NEED TO GIVE MONEY TO THE TRICKSTERS WHO MASQUERADE AS "SEO EXPERTS".

The term - SEO is actually REDUNDANT - it's had its day.

The NEW TERM (we coined it a couple of years ago) is:

CEO - Customer Experience Optimisation

CEO is all about what you need to do to make the CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE as efficient and as pleasant as possible.

A fast-loading, efficient site, that renders well on all devices (responsive)
A site that has intuitive navigation
A site whose content has MEANING to digital data repositories
A site where customers get to what they want in as few clicks as possible
A site where there is focus, and no distractions

And you do NOT need a "SEO Expert" to do any of this.

14 Jul 2015, 12:54 AM
#18
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Re: Friendly URLs and Google Indexing

@schoolboy

Thank you for the detailed information on what Structured Data is. User, mprough has a plugin available in the Zen Cart Plugin's area called Super Data Markup and it seems that it works well.

May I ask you one question? What methods did / do you use to market your websites that you've mentioned a few posts ago. This is something we've been struggling with for years and would really love to start having a decent income from our site. Any helpful and meaningful suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

17 Jul 2015, 6:40 PM
#19
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Re: Friendly URLs and Google Indexing

Invizix:

@schoolboy

Thank you for the detailed information on what Structured Data is. User, mprough has a plugin available in the Zen Cart Plugin's area called Super Data Markup and it seems that it works well.

May I ask you one question? What methods did / do you use to market your websites that you've mentioned a few posts ago. This is something we've been struggling with for years and would really love to start having a decent income from our site. Any helpful and meaningful suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Much depends on what you are selling, and the degree of "impulse" in the purchasing psychology.

By this I mean the following:

If you are selling Ferrari Cars, that cost upwards of $100,000 it is unlikely that this will be an "impulsive" purchase - even if the customers are rich. I don't think that there are many people doing Google searches - "Where can I buy a Ferrari", who then click on the first link they see, add a Ferrari to the cart, then checkout an pay 2 minutes later...

But there are also products at the other end of the scale that people do want to buy very quickly, and who don't really care if one shop is selling the item at a dollar or two more (or less) than some other store. These people have largely decided to buy what they are looking for, and will not spend hours and hours doing price comparisons. They will probably click on the first webshop link they see, and if the webshop looks good and professional, and the price is not too outrageous, they will buy from that webshop.

... and then there are all the products/services that fall between these two extremes.

Our biggest lesson (over many years) is that it is extremely important to DEFINE AND KNOW YOUR MARKET. And once you know who you want as customers, configure everything you do to attract those types of people.

Too many webshop owners try to be "everything to everyone"... they try sell cheap... then they try sell expensive... then they try being discount kings... then they try being up-market snobs... then they try being bits of all of these things at the same time.

Many of our websites sell EXACTLY the same products as lots of our competitors - and we are (in most cases, four to five times more expensive than our cheapest competitors (who are usually selling via eBay or Amazon).

We were a bit worried about this at first... until we discovered that there are large numbers of people out there who do not consider PRICE to be the most important factor. These are usually professional people who earn decent money, and who are happy to pay more if the USER EXPERIENCE on the webshop is FAST AND EFFICIENT. Afterall... professional people tend to lead very busy lives, so TIME is their most precious commodity.

If they can find what they want in a couple of clicks, then pay for it in a couple of clicks, they are not too worried if it cost them 10% or even 20% more. To them... the EASE and CONVENIENCE of an efficient website is much more valuable and important.

So we continue to sell everything at much higher prices than our competitors on places like eBay and Amazon, because we know that our target market does not use these sites to do most of their shopping... It is clunky, frustrating and very time-consuming to buy stuff from MOST eBay and Amazon shops - and in our core market (engraving services), it is even more difficult because eBay and Amazon do not have the capacity for customers to specify TEXT ATTRIBUTES against an given product.

Sure... many people will find what we sell, much cheaper on eBay... but we don't really want people who are buying mostly on PRICE. We want customers who buy for reasons of CONVENIENCE and SPEED - who don't really care too much about the price.

And there are lots and lots of those sorts of people - so we aim everything at them.

This starts with hyper-efficient webshops. We make them as "lean" as possible, and we use fast checkout and PayPal Express on all of them. This speed is what makes people like us, and as I say... people looking for speed and ease-of-use are usually busy professionals, who earn good money.

So... we have identified our market, and we have a site that keeps them happy. As they are not too worried about price, we focus on promoting other core advantages of our products. Our images are top-quality, and are unique... We spend many many hours building our own graphics. We do not use brand-packshots, or images that other websites may be using. This makes us stand out from the clutter. Our images are noticeable when seen in places like Google Shopping, and Google Images... We try to make them appear as part of our brand.

We do advertise heavily on AdWords, and this has to be done very strategically and with a thorough understanding of who you are trying to attract to the shop. So... like all of our marketing, we do not advertise on "price", and we have words like "cheap" and "free" in our lists of negative keywords. We do not want customers who are looking for "cheap" stuff... We don't sell "cheap", so a click from them on one of our ads is a waste. When someone searches for our products on Google, and the word "cheap" is part of their search phrase, our ads will not appear...

We have therefore configured our webshop to appeal to a market that we want... Professional, busy people on good incomes, who like to do things on the internet quickly and efficiently.

We have identified these "purchasing psychology" elements as being what are important to our business, and we have constructed our web presence around the market that possesses them.

18 Jul 2015, 11:09 AM
#20
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Re: Friendly URLs and Google Indexing

Thank you very much for the post. Sometimes its just good to get a back to the basics review just to get our heads sorted.

All good marketing advise and a reminder to keep the core strategy in mind when working on any aspect of your online store.

Greatly appreciated!