Help Please Ladies and Gents ... I think I broke it !!!!

mc12345678:

I'm actually still a little baffled about the situation, as at least two different times we have gone down the question and answer path of what version the software is at and although I haven't actually been in a position to compare the current files with a vanilla install of ZC 1.5.4, so far all the right information is set to make things seem as if ZC 1.5.4 software is installed and that the database has been upgraded to match... So what has changed to indicate otherwise, or is it just that it wasn't personally done therefore must not have happened???To whom are you addressing this 375-word question?:P

dbltoe:

To whom are you addressing this 375-word question?:P

This point? Anyone that can answer it. :) (were those four character and greater words or just anything that fit between a space count of words?)

mc12345678:

This point? Anyone that can answer it. :)

Heck. I'm still trying to figure out what the question is. :-)

Cheers
RodG

[QUOTE=RodG;1287459]For the record.

The only time(s) that I've ever said anything remotely like that is AFTER the problem being discussed has actually be solved.

Please don't attribute what you may or may not have read elsewhere to something that I would never say (except on extremely rare occasions). This thread has not been one of those occasions. In fact I'd say the opposite. Yours have been one of the more complex issues to diagnose. That is the reason for my input in the 1st place. I leave the 'easy' problems to others.

Again, you are reading more into what I wrote than it deserves. What I wrote was
"I consider this to be a stupid question.** Trust me. I don't consider many questions to be stupid"**.

I made an exception in your case because 1) The question wasn't in context in solving the problem. 2) You had already caused enough frustration.

Had you asked the exact same question in a thread of its own, or in almost any other context, I wouldn't have stated what I did. Instead, I would not only have answered the question, but would have also taken the time to explain what was needed to achieve the aim, or directed you to a resource that contained the information needed.

My question on this Rod .. was in the event of having to do a bare install of ZC 1.5.4. I have updated sites before with bare installs and they dropped out of Google relevence faster than you can blink. Whether Google indexes the metatags.php file I have no personal knowledge ... but for sure ... it's there and I would assume to be of some relevence.

Well, no you didn't.

Several messages ago I wrote:
**It doesn't matter if the database DOES contain remnants of the installation because they will never cause any problems.
Whatever the cause of your problem, it ISN'T a database issue.

Now, unlike many responses, there was nothing 'wishy washy' about what I wrote here. There was no ifs, buts, or maybe's. I wrote it as the absolute fact that it is. Some/many people would consider this to be arrogance. I call it confidence. Either way, you didn't 'take it on board' because after taking care of one problem you then came back and wrote "I have set everything there to false just in case that was the reason the site wouldn't load and seems to make no difference whatsoever."
Which part of "it ISN'T a database issue" **didn't you understand?

Again .. after you said it wasn't a database issue .... I never broached that subject again. When I said I put everything to False ... was in the newly appeared FEC admin within my own ZC admin ... and NOT in any database in PHP My Admin.

I'll give you another absolute fact. Limited knowledge or not, what you say 'seems as though.....' doesn't just seem that way, more often than not it IS that way - and not just you, but for ALL of us. It is quite rare for multiple and/or changing symptoms to have a single cause or solution. Each symptom and problem needs to be tackled on its own merits as and when they arise. If you fail to accept this as fact you will be doomed to forever 'fixing' things by doing a complete re-installation and never advancing your knowledge or skills beyond that of a 'newbie'. Is that the person you really want to be? Not that there is anything wrong with that. There are many people that have no wish, need, or desire to advance beyond just knowing how to run and operate an online store, and that is perfectly acceptable.
However when people come into these forums asking questions about how to solve problems and issues (as you have done), I make the assumption that that person wishes to progress beyond this 'owner operator' stage, and I (like most others around here) go out of our way to help answer the questions and guide them along every step of the way to a final resolution. In other words, we make an 'investment' in our time, with the aim that in the longer term the persons we helping, will in turn, be in a position to help others.

This answer I take your point and is under no question Rod. I can overlook the Australian abruptness hahahaha (I'm a brit) and understand exactly what you are saying here. Your input into assisting others is commendable
:smile:

Now, with this in mind, I have no qualms in saying that the way I word things will often upset and/or offend some people (especially the 'newbies'). It isn't that I intend this outcome, people take my words as they see fit (often distorting them in the process). I'm not a junior high school teacher. I'm a senior lecturer. You have been lectured. :-)

Again ... I'm of "that age" where I don't normally read things wrong or take offense. You have offered some good advice and I am grateful for that. I pre date computers and can remember the days when if you wanted something .. you made your way to the local shops ... but according to the Australian TV Programmes we used to get over here at the time ... I assume you sent Skippy ? ... My knowledge of computers are limited and much less with programming. If you asked me to rip your car apart and reassemble it .... not an issue. :P

dbltoe:

I've REALLY tried to stay out of this while you were fighting to get an operational site up for sales.

Now that you have, I have to tell you that you are running on "may-pops". That's Texas slang for really bald tires. In other words, I think your site is going to implode at any moment. Here's why (hopefully, I'm misreading something):

2. Your configure.php files you posted are NOT for the current version and are NOT secure if that is, in fact, the case.

3. You have leftover mod files that may be triggered at the least expected moment.

4. You apparently have changed file permissions where they should not have been. Hopefully, your server did not allow the change to 777 on anything!

If, as you stated, the sales from this site are important, I have the following suggestions.

2. Utilizing the instructions at https://www.zen-cart.com/entry.php?3-How-do-I-rebuild-my-site-on-the-new-version-instead-of-upgrading to install the latest version in a new folder. Let's call it safety just for name's sake. You can name it whatever you like.

3. Create a new database just for the /safety site.

4. I would not bring over any files or templates from the existing site.

5. I would not do a database conversion/transfer now, either.

6. If your current site does not use a responsive template, I would install one that you like. If your current template is responsive, DO NOT copy it over to the /safety version as it may have some files that were changed by one of the old mods.

7. Load the latest versions of any mods you wish to use TO MAKE THE SITE FUNCTIONAL. If it is only for "pretty" or the much-abused "SEO" don't do it for now.

8. Add a product or two to thoroughly test the operation of the safety site.

9. TEST, TEST, TEST

10. Report back here, and we will help you get the data over from the running site.

I know you probably don't want to tackle this right now BUT, it's better to be a step ahead than have to go through all this under pressure.
:bigups:

This is my thoughts exactly dbltoe. I understand that sooner or later the core files need to be addressed and there is a lot of old legacy modules and plugins that just are not compatible anymore. Have no fear on the file permission issue ... that is all safe.

I won't show it here for obvious reasons .. but somewhere during the migration by my hosting company, there is at least 5 -7 directories in the file structure that shouldn't be there. A lot of them are renamed starting with "1" ... cache old .. etc etc ... god knows what they have done ... but it's almost like the file structure has been hit by a hacker or complete amateur :P

wallart studios:

Whether Google indexes the metatags.php file I have no personal knowledge ...

The metatags.php file is never indexed. Neither are any other .php files. What does get indexed is the HTML output that are created by the .php files.

Also, the metatags.php file is used to generate several different metatags. This hasn't been mentioned until now because I didn't realise that you were mistakingly thinking php files were being indexed. It is the metatag keywords that Google doesn't use for rankings.
http://googlewebmastercentral.##########################.au/2009/09/google-does-not-use-keywords-meta-tag.html

> wallart studios:

but for sure ... it's there and I would assume to be of some relevence.

The meta_tags.php files (there are two of them by this name) are used by zen-cart to create the HTML output of the site/page. One of these are 'user editable' (it contains your custom definitions), and generally speaking this can be copied from one installation to another. The other one essentially controls exactly what is output dependent on which page is being loaded. This one has no user editable data and should generally NOT be copied from an older installation to a newer one.

wallart studios:

Again .. after you said it wasn't a database issue .... I never broached that subject again. When I said I put everything to False ... was in the newly appeared FEC admin within my own ZC admin ... and NOT in any database in PHP My Admin.

Another case of reading something that was never written. This is the first time in this thread that "PHP My Admin" (or any other reference to this software) has ever been mentioned.
In several places throughout this thread you have mentioned using the 'sql patch', which I've always taken to mean the SQL patch tool in ZenCart itself.
If you tried to use phpMyAdmin to execute the uninstall script(s) then this could/would explain why they failed. In some cases (where no prefixes are used) it doesn't matter which of these tools you use. However, if the database tables have prefixes you should only use the SQL patch tool as this tool takes the prefixes into consideration. If you use phpMyAdmin you'll need to edit the script(s) to include the prefixes.

Oh, and for the record, changing configuration settings via the ZenCart control panel IS making database changes. I can't think of any changes you can make here that will cause a problem with the main page loading. This symptom, as I stated previously, is always a file problem. Please keep this in mind for future problems - it will save you a lot of time. Changing database config settings can only exasperate problems. Never solve them.

wallart studios:

This answer I take your point and is under no question Rod. I can overlook the Australian abruptness hahahaha (I'm a brit)

hahahaha... I'm a brit too (living in Aust), and that is quite a racist comment you made there. The abruptness that you observe here is just me and not a typical Australian trait.

wallart studios:

My knowledge of computers are limited and much less with programming. If you asked me to rip your car apart and reassemble it .... not an issue. :P

That sounds good, but consider this.
If someone towed/pushed a car to you and said 'it doesn't start' would you try to diagnose the cause, or would you just 'guess' what it could be?
Yes, you'll have several possible causes in mind, but you need to start somewhere - Is the 1st thing you do is check that it has petrol, or would you try to start it before topping the tank up? I'll bet you'll turn the key to try to start it, right? OK so you do this only to find the motor doesn't turn over. Hmm, 'Flat battery' you say to yourself. So do you tell the customer that that is all that is wrong, or do you hook up a couple of jumper leads to be sure that is all there is too it? A 'newbie' would probably do the former. I'd assume that you'd do the latter.
So you give it a couple of tries, the starter turns over, but the car still doesn't start. Oh my... you've just taken one step forward (fixed the 'starter'), but you've also taken one step back - It still doesn't start - Which is what the customer was complaining about, right? At this stage do you right the car off because of this backward step, or do you move forward to diagnosing the 'new' problem (See where I'm heading with this?). No, you'll not right the car off, you'll probably check that it has fuel. You find it doesn't. Do you consider this to be the end of the matter and tell the customer what you've found and consider the case closed? No, of course you wouldn't. You'd add some fuel and try to start it again, only to find it still doesn't start. Oh my... that's one more step forward, and another step backward... With each step so far you've manged to change the symptoms, but the car still doesn't start. Time to right it off now? Nope. Check the plug leads. They aren't connected. So you plug them in and the car finally starts.

Only now are you in a position to figure out what has probably happened... The car ran out of fuel, the customer kept trying to start it and flattened the battery, they then popped the hood to have a poke around and for reasons known only to themselves they unplugged the spark plug leads. finding that didn't help they had the car pushed/towed to you with the complaint 'it doesn't start' (of course, they aren't going to tell you the complete story which would have made your job so much easier) - But at the end of the day, you would have taken one step forward and another step backward, each time tackling each symptom/problem as they arose. You would almost certainly never have considered telling the customer to buy a another car because you had a few setbacks - But that is exactly what you have done when trying to fix your ZenCart problem(s).

Now, using the same example as above - lets suppose the customer phoned you before bringing the car to you and they described the problem as being 'The Starter motor doesn't turn over' and then went on to say 'I think it might be the spark plugs'. You'd first be scratching your head wondering what kind of logic they used to come up with this 'diagnosis', and you'd probably even be confident enough to tell them flat out that faulty plugs would NOT cause the problem they are describing. Now wouldn't you be somewhat annoyed when you finally get to check things for yourself only to find that the third setback was caused by something that they messed with, even though you told them that couldn't have caused the symptoms they 1st described?

The point I'm trying to make here is that computers and computer software isn't some kind of 'magic' where logic doesn't apply. You clearly have mechanical diagnostic skills - All you really need to is transfer those skills across to solving computer related issues. The diagnostic approach is pretty much the same in either case. You have to treat each symptom/problem based on its own merits as and when they arise. The 'reinstalling' of software is akin to replacing the car. Sometimes (but rarely) is this going to be the approach to take, but even then it is never a guarantee that it'll solve every possible problem. The replacement car / software reinstall could be a matter of replacing one set of problems with another set.

Anyway, that's just something for you to think about should you have further problems. I have nothing more to say.

Cheers
RodG

RodG:

...
hahahaha... I'm a brit too (living in Aust), and that is quite a racist comment you made there. The abruptness that you observe here is just me and not a typical Australian trait.
Last time I looked, *Australian *didn't qualify as its own race.:smile:

lat9:

Last time I looked, *Australian *didn't qualify as its own race.:smile:

Point taken, but according to the most unreliable source on the planet (wikipedia)

"Race, as a social construct, is a group of people who share similar and distinct physical characteristics.
First used to refer to speakers of a common language and then to denote national affiliations, by the 17th century race began to refer to physical (i.e. phenotypical) traits.
Starting from the 19th century, the term was often used in a taxonomic sense to denote genetically differentiated human populations defined by phenotype.
Social conceptions and groupings of races vary over time, involving folk taxonomies that define essential types of individuals based on perceived traits."

I think that qualifies. :-)

Besides, if I'd wrote "and that is quite a Cuntriest comment you made there" I'm sure I would have offended a number of people, and as you know, it isn't in my nature to cause offence. LOL.

Cheers
RodS

Hi Rod ... I'm not racist .. far from it hahaha. Some of my friends are Australian or Brit ex pats :laugh:

Problems are all solved for now thank heaven and at least I didn't do a Jeremy Clarkson and stand outside a fudge factory and tweet what he did ... again ... common trait hahaha ... people made their own interpretation of that comment :P

Again .. thank you to all that contributed to this thread and assisted me in my hour of need ... you are all stars ... every one of you.

wallart studios:

Hi Rod ... I'm not racist .. far from it hahaha. Some of my friends are Australian or Brit ex pats :laugh:

LOL. Didn't say you were racist, only that the comment was <g>

wallart studios:

I didn't do a Jeremy Clarkson and stand outside a fudge factory and tweet what he did ... again ... common trait hahaha ... people made their own interpretation of that comment :P

People seem to like being offended by Jeremy (but like most that take offence, only when it suits them). Personally his many slips of the tongue is one of the best things I like about him. We share a lot in common in that regard. :-)

Lets see who is the next to take offence.
**Eeny, meeny, miny, moe...

**Cheers
RodG

Thank you all for my nightly amusement!:P